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| Julie Costanzo |
The child of a social worker, Alice Garg ditched her high school teaching career in the 70s and went to work with the poorest of the poor around Rajasthan. She takes in untouchables, helps women fight exploitation, helps villages survive droughts…
Click below to read what she has to say about:
Holly: Tell me about the Pond Project.
AG: Oh, we are in this village which is badly hit by drought, and this is one of the villages we are working with our program, Family Up-Liftment Program, which has been funded by Pelastakaa Lapset ry, Helsinki, Finland, which is "Save the Children." And in this program we are taking care of children's education, their health, their family's health, then income generation for both parents — I mean the lady and the men folk. We are also providing them some training if they want for those children who are not going to the school and they're out of school, or they're over age.
And other than this program, we are also doing water management. And under water management we are de-silting and deepening this village pond. Which at present was not giving water for one full year, only for maybe, four, five months it used to feed the people.
Holly: What did the women do when it wasn't?
AG: Oh, they have to walk quite far off to fetch water for their animals and for their family. So now it will be in the near neighborhood, and it will be a big facility and we are doing it to catch the run-off water, because this water goes to waste otherwise. And as you know Rajasthan is facing lots of problem with drinking water and the underground water table is going down every month now. So we thought that the old system which they had should be revived. That's the reason we are doing it.
Holly: How did you come to start the organization?
AG: See we have been working for these people, you know, these people meaning the community, we have been working for the so-called Kundar tribes in other districts. And when we wanted to have this project, then we asked them, also the government, where to find the poor people, poorest of the poor. And then through them we came to know that such villages.
Holly: And how did you personally come to this work?
AG: My father was also engaged in this kind of work, and that time I'm talking of, in the 1940s it was charity-based social work, you know, you distribute things for poor people, some blankets, some food, something like this, and I used to watch. My grandma, she was also doing the same thing. But she was doing it through us, you know. She taught us to share whatever you have, that is one thing, I think, through the family I got. And what I feel is that if you have some sensitivity in you toward such people who have been suffering economically, socially and otherwise and you see the poverty from very close by. I think that is the biggest motivation, and I have seen poverty, extreme poverty, I've seen people suffering, you know, without any complaint. That motivated me.
I actually basically was a high school teacher. I left my job in '72 and started Bal Rashmi with 4,000 rupees. With four children in my own house. And those children were from scavengers, so-called "untouchables." And for one year I was teacher for them, I was cook for them, I was the caretaker for them, everything, because we didn't have any money at that time to start with.
Holly: How much of the poverty is tied to the caste system?
AG: See, it's the whole set-up against them, you know. The poor people are not just poor because, you know, of poverty. It is some other forces which have been exploiting them, which have been torturing them, using them in their favor, they don't want that they should come up. So I think that it's people that don't get their dues, they work there for maybe ten hours, sometimes eight hours and then when it is time to pay them they find fault in them and try to cut the money and they also give them very late.
So the poor people they don't get their dues in time, and their dues totally, you know, what is really due to them from the site. So that is another thing, which makes them remain in their poor condition…
Holly: Do you think the caste system adds to dehumanizing people and that makes it not change?
AG: It plays a very major role in our country especially, and day-by-day it is becoming stronger and stronger. And I don't have any feel that it will go, you know, I don't.
Holly: It's becoming stronger?
AG: Yeah, because, you see, we are divided caste-wise, greed-wise, every time, you know, wherever you go they feel that this is upper caste, lower caste and other caste, you know.
Holly: Does it officially exist anymore, or…?
AG: Oh, it exists very much, you can see, you can feel it…
Holly: Yeah.
AG: You know. We don't have any law for such thing, but it is there and it will remain I think, because laws cannot change these kind of things. It has to be from, by the people, you know, from the social order, from the society. The change comes from them, not through laws. We have laws for, in favor of women, but they don't support us. We have law, for example, against child marriage and it is still continuing.
We have a law now against the infanticide, you cannot just go on like this and kill the girl in mother's womb… I feel that law or no law, any caste, every time it is the women who are suffering, you know. Our world is the fourth world. We women in Asia are not even living in third world; we are living in fourth world. When you don't have a right to be born, you don't have a right to live, you don't have a right to decide for your future, it is so difficult for women in all walks of life.
You take the educated working woman, she's also suffering with some sort of torture or exploitation or something, so it is all in the institutions. I also call the family an institution, because we in India, women especially, we're born in the family and we die in the family, we don't have any separate identity. Hardly…single women are, you will find in India, very few of them. So the institution, like family, police, administration, religion, for example, where your caste comes, all these institutions were built to protect women and women's rights, but I'm so sorry to tell you that most of them are if not against, at least not supportive and women are not safe anywhere in these institutions. Anywhere — including the family.
Holly: Not safe from what?
AG: Unsafe means their development is not considered, she can be unsafe in other ways also, she can be killed for dowry in the family itself, and the family members are there to kill, and we have seen rape cases in our police station, those who are supposed to protect women. …But now, what we feel is that women have started raising their voice against it.
Holly: So how are they fighting back, how are you fighting back?
AG: But now, because of media…the local media doesn't play a good role, but the national media plays a very good role and exposes such people and people are afraid of that. And now women are also coming up, opening up and we are trying to bring awareness in them, that see, is the other person who should feel ashamed of doing such a thing, not you, you were helpless. And things are now coming up to the police station also.
When we talk about development, we talk about a girl-child, she doesn't have any say for her future. It is the father who decides, it is the husband who decides, it is the brother who decides or maybe the son who decides for her, she has to carry on the orders, that's all. If she wants to study, for example, and if they find a good boy — according to them, not according to the girl who is going to live with this boy — they will marry her at any stage, you know. Maybe her studies, she has to leave, sacrifice, and she will be married immediately.
Holly: What does your program do to teach women to fight back, or allow them to do that?
AG: We always tell them to raise their voice against them, such things. They should not feel ashamed, and it is the women who should change the social values now, in their favor, and those values which have been long, long, long, you know, time there, made by the so-called, men-dominated society. And it is we who want to change, then we have to raise our voice, otherwise it will remain and we will suffer because of that.
Holly: What happened recently with the case that you were charged with and recently acquitted of?
AG: Oh, see we have been helping them to raise their voice…in a very non-violent way — we believe in non-violence because we believe what Gandhi taught us, because he says that the person who bears violence is also responsible for it. So we used to raise our voice against the exploitation, against rape, against the atrocities on women, sitting on the square, exposing them, demanding justice in favor of the victims. And we were just raising voice against the atrocities and things like that, not against any party or anybody or any government, but then the VJP government didn't like it, they thought it was too much for them.
I tell you that we sat on the square for 29 days, because that time it was the height, you see, of the atrocities and discrimination. We felt the women in Rajasthan, that we are worse than cows because we were demanding a women's commission in our state, a branch of the women's commission, which they should set, you know, in all the states of the country. We were demanding a human rights commission — which we have now, with this new government. As soon as the present chief minister took over, he immediately formed the human rights commission and also the women's commission and we have both. But we felt very bad about it. This is what they should have done without any demand.
And for all these kind of demands, or struggle, fighting for poor peoples' rights that without any, charge one should not be punished unnecessarily or should not be taken into custody, all these kind of things we were raising our voice against and then we were booked for four rape cases, one murder and one threat and three misuse of funds.
Holly: Your organization or you personally?
AG: Me, my colleagues, my family members, my daughters, my son-in-law and 15 of us.
Holly: They just drummed up the charges?
AG: Fifteen of us were booked, and I was booked in all the nine cases. But I'm very happy to tell you that the in the reinvestigation they did not get anything out of it and they have put final report in favor of us. But, you see, four people were there in prison for 17 months.
Holly: Your colleagues?
AG: My colleagues. And one fellow died — a young boy, leaving two daughters and one baby in the womb — out of shock. And the orphaned children, you know, they were also, this political vendetta — we had 180 of them at the time, and then most of them went away if they had somebody to go to.
Holly: In the schools?
AG: In the family, and out of many, they are not studying because they don't have any means to go to the school, and they are adding the, you know, drop out rate or they are doing the child labor, they are adding their number there.
Holly: They were in your schools and then when this…
AG: In the hostel, we are running a hostel for the abandoned children, babies zero to five years of age group, then we are also running our orphanage, destitute children whom, for the people's children, who have some problem at home. Maybe the mother is a divorcee and she doesn't have any means to take care of the child, or the parents are facing some long illness, leprosy or something like that, or mother or father, one of them are in the jail or something.
Holly: What do you fear?
AG: Now I don't have any fear, I don't have any fear. This attack has made us more strong, because we have seen such a lot during this time, and we have seen what we, we never could imagine, you know. We have learned a lot, what is going on in politics, we never used to care for this aspect.
Holly: When you've lived through the worst, you lose your fear?
AG: I feel that will be the difference between them and us. We will do this good work now again more strongly and with full strength. Let them do what they want to do.
Holly: Do you think that through your program people are getting empowered and is that making a difference?
AG: I always say that I will not allow the beggars to beg. In their place, I will beg and try to bring them to a level where they don't have to do all these things. So I think this attack means that that they were not happy about the work we have done because people have been demanding their dues, they have been…
Holly: Getting a voice.
AG: Yes, so this proves that they were not happy with the work we have done, and we also evaluate our work when we see the children who know how to read and write, they are going to the schools, they have a little smile on their face, little glow on their face, women are opening up, coming up, out working and they are trying to work out for their future, you know.
Holly: What about your future?
AG: My future, I think is tied up with the poor people's future.
Holly: What do you feel most hopeful about?
AG: Now we are not alone, even the poor people are with us because now they also understand if something goes wrong they are not going to sit quietly now. The other thing I feel is that me and and my colleagues they are committed people, we don't see any other thing than what we have been doing.
Holly: How does Gandhian philosophy…how is that a part of your philosophy?
AG: We who believe a little bit in the Gandhian way, we believe that we should have only that much which you need, basically. You don't have to collect the whole world you know, for yourself, by other means and one should be very honest to the country, to your people, to the society, honest means, and honesty in all respects because here in India the character has a different meaning altogether.
Holly: The what has a different meaning?
AG: For example, women; 'Oh she's not a good woman because she doesn't posess good character because she's going with the boys, talking too freely and all that kind of thing,' but, if she's working hard and doing something worthwhile it is not going to be considered as good work.
But then here I would like to mention that Babu Gandhiji, you know, he always said that when men folk can decide for them, why can't women? And they are equally strong, and in all his struggle he kept women with him in forefront. That is the way I think we should look at, or the society should look at, the women. We need the support you see, we are capable of everything, doing everything, we have proved that, we have managed that, even with out support. So I think Gandhian way of life is, like for example, non-violence, it is needed all over the world, the way we are going, the ways of weapons and whatnot, it is going to bring destruction, depression, these kind of things to the people, not happiness.
Holly: What's a diva? Does that word mean anything to you?
AG: Diva is, like lamp. Light. Yeah, it is a lamp, which gives lot of light to others and goes on burning, you know.
