(This transcript was translated from Farsi.)

Holly : Why did you make Two Women, and what was its effect on society?

TM: Let me think for a moment. One of the most important problems that we are faced with in Iran's society is that we are unable to express our true personality.

Meaning that the society does not allow us to manifest who you really are, and this is worse in regards to women. Most of our women have two or three sides, especially after the revolution this has become a common situation. For both men and women, their lives inside their homes where it is private is one way and outside of their homes where they have to observe social regulations it is another way.

Now to all of this something else also has to be added. Our women also have two faces inside their homes: the image of what their spouses or their spouses' families want them to have, and what is inside them.

Two Women, because is about the negation of the identity of a human being. In my opinion, 90 percent of the women and even the men in our society related to the character Fereshteh.

The fact that in our society or in their private lives, there is a constant effort to change or make them into what they want them to be — this has caused our people to feel very strongly and close to this issue and make this popular.

Holly : Was your film a revolutionary one, the first movie that was shown about this subject matter?

TM: Very beautiful movies had been made about women in the past but not about this topic. For example, one of the beautiful movies that had been made in the past, called Madian, mostly showed the lives of women in villages or the economic problems they faced. But in regards to the negation of the identity, this is the film, at least the first in which the whole [work of the] film is about the negation of identity.

Holly : Why is the movie called Two Women?

TM: Two Women means every woman. I think the friendship between two women in Iran is like that anywhere else, although maybe a little stronger in Iran. These two women are both having their identities negated, or are forced to show different faces of themselves in their families or society, so they have much to say and can share many of their issues with each other.

Holly : What inspires you to make a movie?

TM: I have made six movies and have written the six scripts myself on top of the scripts I have written for other directors.

Usually there is only one way for me to write a script, and that is for something to either upset me or for me to conclude that it is useful to society, that is when I start. At the beginning I have a concept and this concept helps me to find an appropriate story.

In regards to Two Women, that was a different story. Two Women was a true story and it was the story of a person that I really knew. About 60 percent of the movie was like the life of the woman on whose life I based the script. The story of her life was so shocking and upsetting to me that I thought I could make a film for the masses that will make people think.

Look, in this film you don't see any physical punishment, torture or beatings by the women and men. For example the man of the house is not a bad man, he doesn't get drunk, have bad friends, or isn't friends with other women. He has all the surface characteristics of a good human being: he is a good father, covers the household's expenses and most importantly loves his wife. But he loves her in his own way.

I created a public situation in which any person who sees this can put themselves in the place of the character at the beginning of the story. Therefore, when this man and woman don't find happiness, the first question that is raised is, 'What is this woman's problem that she can't live with this man?' And that is exactly what I spoke about; the issue of negation of personality, the human identity is ignored.

This woman is not what the society or her husband expects her to be; she has a personality, a dream, her own wishes, and her own ideas about the world. But all of society, her husband and her father pressure her to change her from the way she is to something else, and this was the interesting point, which I thought I should concentrate on in this film. In my next movie, The Hidden Half, the issue is that our women don't talk at all about themselves, their demands, their ideologies and their thoughts.

They don't speak about all of this at all. By making that movie, we tell all of them that as long as you remain silent and don't say anything your problems will remain. Speak and pay the price for it, for it may transform and change your life.

In any case, the script must have a progressive concept and I have to write about it without any exaggerations. I have to write the script in one or two nights. My research or note-taking may take three or four months, but writing it is not too difficult for me and I can do it in two or three days.

I have written scripts even in one day that were only changed by about maybe ten percent later on, and the dialogues and relationships have remained as I had written them.

Holly : What is unique about artistic expression in Iran?

TM: Artistic expression… Well, I think we may have different tastes, for example I've noticed that the Iranian films that the Europeans like are not the same ones the Americans have, and this shows that the people of the world have different cultures and different tastes. It is the same way in Iran as well. In Iran also the people's tastes are a little different from the Europeans or the Americans, but in order for us to find the artistic path for making our statement, there isn't much difference. Good work is good work, good photography is good photography, good acting is good acting, I think these are the same all over the world.

Holly : What role does the government play in producing movies and how has that changed in recent years?

TM: We have two types of producers in Iran: one is the private producers that give money for producing movies and the other is governmental producers. Even the private producers are borrowing part of the films' costs from the government, or become indebted to the government.

Before, a script would go to the Ministry of Culture and Islamic Guidance and would be read there. They would either make changes or reject it. This made our job very difficult, but at the same time it had a benefit in that we were somewhat certain that if the script had been read and approved, the film would be allowed to be screened.

After Mr. Khatami became President, he made some changes in the Ministry of Culture and Islamic Guidance and the scripts are no longer read. So you are almost free to make anything you like, but whether it will be shown depends on whether the council that reviews films will approve it, and this increases the risk in investment somewhat.

It is true that the atmosphere has been opened up from many angles and we have been able to make a lot of our ideas into films that we couldn't make before. But at the same time it has introduced some conservatism into cinema as the producers invest large sums in movies and this has drawn filmmakers towards the mundane and safe issues.

…Of course I have to praise myself a little. Before Mr. Khatami, and even after he came, there was a council in Ershad (The Culture and Islamic Guidance Ministry) that read the scripts, and after that there was a council that would select the movies for the film festivals and issue changes to the films, and then there was a council that would issue permits for films to be screened.

When I would take a script there the people would say, 'Oh no, she has brought another script and if we don't issue a permit to here she struggles until she gets it.' For example, the council that would review movies for festivals issued 16-17 changes for Two Women but they knew that I would implement none of them and that I would keep going back and arguing with them — or according to them fight with them — 'till I would get the permit. And the same thing would happen in regards to showing the movie, meaning that they would become so fed up with me, and the fact that they know me to be this way makes my work somewhat easier to produce.

I can recall something that was very interesting. The screening room in Ershad where they reviewed our movies for issuing permits in had two doors — one was in the hallway in front of the office of the managing director of Ershad, and the other was towards the exit. At that time, they had stopped my fourth movie (Khatami had not become the president then). I went out to the hallway in front of the managing director's office, and when he came out of his room he took a look at me walked backwards into the room and escaped from the other door.

Holly : When you make a new movie, do you think about censorship or do you just make your movie and figure that you'll just fight it out with them?

TM: Look, during these 23 years that have passed since the revolution, we have slowly learned what to make and what not to mention and in a way, we have automatically censored ourselves. Unfortunately even with Mr. Khatami coming into office this mentality and spirit will not go away quickly and overnight.

Naturally we are afraid that we may approach and get too close to an issue because undoubtedly it will not be permitted. This is a given, and our ability to fight has its limits. We can fight the taste of the managing director — there have been cases in which the script was approved and changed during the term of one managing director and the film was arrested during the term of the next managing director. Or conversely, there are films like Two Women, which was halted during the term of one managing director and then the managing director was replaced and Ershad's policies were changed and a permit was issued for it, and it even won prizes. So we can fight with the taste of the individuals issuing the permits but not with the laws, especially Islamic laws. Therefore, no, I can't make whatever I want and be certain that I can fight well and be able to show the movie. That is almost impossible.

Holly : Do you worry about the consequences when you're making a controversial film?

TM: With my last film, The Hidden Half, I was worried during its making just as I'm a little nervous now that it is about to go on screen. The first night of the filming, 15 publications were shut down, and this really depleted our energy and psychologically affected me.

The film was faced with a harsh reaction in the Fajr film festival and I know that three of the judges were very upset after the screening of the movie and left the cinema and evidently threatened me. I wasn't there, but I heard about it.

The film was severely boycotted and wasn't nominated in any area — a very harsh reaction was shown to it, and now that only 20 days remain to its screening, I really don't know what will happen to it. I think that even though it was a film that I made during Khatami's era it is of very high risk.

Holly : Tell me what The Hidden Half was about.

TM: It is very difficult to explain, it isn't something that can be done in a couple of minutes, but the abbreviated version is that some people, for example me, I was 18 at the time of revolution, and the victims who were killed in the streets during the revolution were from my generation. Also during the cultural revolution, which started right after the revolution, the universities were shut down for four years, meaning that whatever happened, happened to my generation. There were some who were like me were silenced or died in the war or prisons or became refugees.

All these things happened to my generation. The Hidden Half is talking about that silent half of the society that was never permitted to talk about itself — whenever it has tried to say anything it has been censored.

In reality our history during these 23 years is a one-sided history. Only one dimension has had to with the Islamists.

Nobody talks about the leftists at the beginning of the revolution or the nationalists and others. Therefore you always hear something incomplete about the history of a country as if you are looking at a one-dimensional picture of the Iranian society. Whenever they say Iran, you immediately imagine a specific type of people while when you travel to Iran, you see all kinds of people here.

Because The Hidden Half talks about the unspoken issues of a generation, it offends many. It says, 'Look what you have done to the people with your unjust and heartless judgments.' We have to go and open up this part of history and speak about the past so the wounds that exist in society today will be healed.

Well not everybody has the ability to see and accept this movie and therefore it can be said that I think that my main problem is political, and not artistic.

Holly : Some people say Iran suffering is from an identity crisis?

TM: When they say Iran, it seems too generalized. I won't get into that conversation because I have done no research to say whether Iran is suffering from an identity crisis right now or not.

But I do know that the groups that are ruling in Iran would very much like to make the others who don't look like them, to become like them. I know that it is very painful and the Iranian society has never accepted this.

And today we see that, yes we are facing a crisis in society and our new generation is not willing at all to accept what has been planned. We were different because we thought we were carrying out a revolution so justice, equality and the things that were important to us could be implemented. Unfortunately we accepted things that we thought were going to be simple too easily, and we accept that now.

Our kids today, don't know themselves, don't know their parents, have lost their dreams and are confused. At some places, this confusion has led to arguing and face-to-face fighting with their family and society. They even harm themselves, they take refuge in drugs and extreme parties and yes, it can be said that maybe our society is going through a very difficult and critical phase.

My generation was like a ship: all those of my generation were passengers on a ship and we were traveling on the ocean and we had an objective [destination] and it was clear where we were going. But all of a sudden they exploded a bomb under this ship and destroyed it. Some died and some found a piece of driftwood and swam.

Now this system will not allow them to speak and say that we were on a ship that was destroyed in that manner, that these things happened. And the young kids I'm talking about will not become well until they say these things. And they have not permitted these talks to take place and they have continuously silenced them.

In my opinion, the truth about the war and what took place in the prisons over these years was not told. Because of my trips over the past years to various film festivals, I have come face to face with a lot of people and, no one in the Iranian society knows what they are going through or what they feel.

I like Mr. Khatami a lot, not as a political party or path but rather as an individual, and I accept him as a thinker and an intellectual. It seems to me that his slogans and words help a lot and open the path, but the practical paths for us to go back to our pasts and look closely at it are not open. Therefore his slogans are very pretty but in order to implement them we need a very deep force, a movement.

Holly : How can he do these things?

TM: We will help him. I made The Hidden Half, some have written books that have been or are being published, some others will also make films.

Holly : The role of artists is to help make changes?

TM: No, this is not an instruction manual for anyone. Artists each based on their own sensitivity will show a reaction. You can make a very romantic and emotional movie, you can make a film about runaway girls, or you can make one about unemployment. There are many issues in this society that are interesting…that I think that we should do. I want to raise my thoughts and criticism on society through cinema, which I love very much, but this is my opinion and there are many who don't think like me. I don't listen to them either, but rather determine a goal for myself.

Another very important issue which I started to explore in The Hidden Half is the issue of judgment in society. The Iranian society, like many other societies in the world, is under the influence of judgment — even in a simple sister-brother relationship, or the friendship between a husband and wife, or with an elder, or even for a judge in a court, this is an issue.

These unjust judgments are pushing the society further and further back. For example, in The Hidden Half, the point that I concentrated on is that with these hurried judgments, we are changing even the principal issue and not only does this not help in resolving the issue, but rather it creates further issues.

Holly : Is this a theme in all your movies?

TM: No, I think just in this last one. Another point in the movie is that our generation may have been judged harshly and heartlessly. They didn't give us the opportunity to defend ourselves; they only judged everyone one-sidedly, just as we are judging our young generation poorly today. But at least, unlike us, they are not faced with the danger of death and harm as much. Our situation was a little more extreme and fortunately or unfortunately many of them [us] are the parents of this generation. See how wave after wave are transferred to each other?

As a person who thinks about the health of my society, I try to make films that will create a movement — for example Two Women — so there will be discussions and debates. I'm even willing to pay the price, really, even if they swear at me, make me look really bad, as long as the issues are talked about and the opponents and proponents exchange their opinions.