“The idea of portraiture is a kind of storytelling—a
distilled storytelling. I am interested in distilled narratives
so the idea of trying to tell a story or hint at something
larger than the individual— through the individual—became
interesting to me.”
“...now there’s very little concentration on
the moment when violence occurs. I’m more interested
in what happens before and after.”
“I think that’s one of the risks artists should
take every once in a while, to step outside of their creative
process and see what happens when you leave the confines
of your own way of doing things.”
Do you think that
the term portrait accurately describes your work?
ALI:
Just the ones that I’ve
recently done of single figures. The way that they’re
cropped is in reference to ubiquitous portraiture,
formal portraiture. So I call them portraits, but I mean
a portrait that really isn’t of someone who exists,
these don’t exist except in my mind. They certainly
act like portraits and they want to be portraits, but at the
end of the day, I don’t know if they are.
ART:21:
What characterizes a portrait?
ALI:
I’m thinking about formal
portraits, but the portraiture that I’m thinking of
when I’m making these encompasses a much bigger range
than I’m thinking about right now. I’m thinking
of them as distinct individuals who exist or who have existed.
The idea is for the distinctness of that individual to come
through and to speak in some way about a narrative that is
not readily apparent. So something about the way the person
is dressed or their setting or the weathering of their face
tells you a story. The look in their eyes speaks of something
larger. Think of society portraiture in the late 1800s, like
a [John Singer] Sargent painting. He was commissioned to do portraits
of very wealthy individuals and you’re looking at the
individual as much as you are at their dress, what they’re
holding, what the setting is—the whole picture. With
really amazing portraits, the painting of them also plays
a role. The quality of paint and something about the eyes,
those sorts of artistic decisions become an active part of
really good portraits.
The idea of portraiture is a kind of storytelling—a
distilled storytelling. I am interested in distilled narratives
so the idea of trying to tell a story or hint at something
larger than the individual—through the individual—became
interesting to me. It’s new for me to do this and I’m
not sure where it’s going to go from here. I think this
is the first step at looking at these individual characters
and blowing them up large. I’ve had individual figures
before in my work, but they have been more distant, more distant,
more deep into the picture.
ART:21:
What role does gender play in
creating these individual characters?
ALI:
I have no idea whether they’re
male or female. I’ve almost eliminated that as a category,
although they still get gendered because of what they wear.
It’s interesting, because race still exists in the work.
Recently it’s come to the forefront a little bit more.
ART:21:
Symmetry and violence both seem
to play a major part in your work.
ALI:
Well, more than symmetry I think
I think of it as a kind of visual rhythm in the work. I feel
like I have these rhythms that I work on—and I don’t
know music so I’m going to make up my own terms—rhythms
and sub-rhythms. The structural things have a kind of patterning
or beat to them.
And the violence, I think when people say the word ‘violence’,
oftentimes we think of the violent act. In my earlier work
it was more about the moment that somebody was getting strangled
or hanged, whereas now there’s very little concentration
on the moment when violence occurs. I’m more interested
in what happens before and after. And the figure is the perpetrator
of the violence, the victim, the negotiator. We understand
or read violent acts through the characters and the figures.
ART:21:
Can you talk more about this
idea of pre- and post-violence?
ALI:
There’s always another
violent act around the corner. So, pre-violence—when
was that moment? Post-violence—the anticipation of the
next act. The repetition is what I think is so striking. It’s
not like one thing happens and you say, “Wow! That was
just so terrible,” and it will never happen again. You
know it will happen again—either where you’re
caught up in a system, whether a family or war...or—if
you’re in a situation as I happen to be now, not involved
in a violent cycle, witnessing violent situations erupt. I’m
more in a witness position now. Not a direct witness. A kind
of removed witness.
It’s really very different.
I mean, it’s about as different as I can imagine something
being, working with dancers and performance. Luckily, when
I was in high school and college I was interested in theater
for a while, so it’s not completely foreign. But it
is foreign enough that when I walk in and there’s actual
living, breathing bodies there with hearts beating, it’s
a little freaky. It’s a little like, “Aaah! They’re
all alive, how do you deal with alive people?”
Dean Moss [the choreographer] is trying to control and order
the experience much in the way that I am trying to control
and order my own work. But he has all of this other information
and human will involved, which makes it extremely exciting
and alive. Dean really is the person who works directly with
the dancers, I’m not responsible for that part of it.
And he’s been fabulous to work with. I think the most
exciting thing—and the reason that I agreed to do it—was
that it’s a little bit scary for me.
I met Dean, looked at his work, went to a performance of his
and felt like we were thinking about similar things in different
ways. Not different at heart, but different in approach. I
didn’t think I could pass up the opportunity to enter
into a kind of creative collaboration with somebody. Something
like that doesn’t happen very often. I think in a really
honest way and I think Dean approaches it really honestly.
It’s a real gift to be able to join in someone’s
creative endeavor.
Oftentimes artists are brought into performances to make the
backdrop, to provide the visual stimulation that’s two-dimensional.
But that’s not what this collaboration is about, it’s
more like, “Let’s put our minds together and see
what this is about.” And that has been pretty amazing.
I think that’s one of the risks artists should take
every once in a while, to step outside of their creative process
and see what happens when you leave the confines of your own
way of doing things.
ART:21:
What about the word 'power'?
ALI:
Power? I don’t know how
to think about the word ‘power’. It’s so
overused. To empower, that’s supposed to be a good thing.
People who have power, that’s a bad thing. So power,
to me, is too slippery. Control speaks to power, but it’s
more about the mechanism, which I think interests me. So I
would say there’s a lot of contemplation about control.
So much of the work is about me trying to control it. Yet
it still defies me.
