Archived from Friday, October 17, 2008
Eight U.S. soldiers, some who have killed and some who said no, reveal their inner moral dilemmas in "Soldiers of Conscience." Meet one of the film's producers, Gary Weimberg.
Archived Chat
Hello and welcome to the Engage Live Chat Series. Today we welcome documentary filmmaker Gary Weimberg, who produced P.O.V.'s Soldiers of Conscience (along with Catherine Ryan who is unable to join us today). Thank you for joining us Gary. Viewers, please feel free to ask questions during the chat. The Engage site has been experiencing some technical difficulties over the last few days, so if you do receive an error message, just refresh the page and rejoin the discussion.
kathleen, norwood, mass:
What did you originally set out to cover with this film? Was it what you expected?
Gary Weimberg:
Originally, the executive producer proposed a film about conscientious objectors. As we jumped in and started filming, it became clear that to talk only about the objectors and not the non - objectors, it would be less than half the story.
In fact, we realized that the real story we wanted to tell was even broader - that the subject of the film is the morality of killing in war - so both sincere war fighters and sincere COs were both super important to meet, discuss and include.
In fact, we realized that the real story we wanted to tell was even broader - that the subject of the film is the morality of killing in war - so both sincere war fighters and sincere COs were both super important to meet, discuss and include.
Kevin, Takoma Park, MD:
Did the Army want you to tell (or not tell) any particular story? *
Gary Weimberg:
The army was very careful NOT to determine content. They took a long time to give approval to the project, but once they did they were 100% true to the promise of our agreement - we would submit a cut for their review in terms of security and accuracy, but they would not say anything regarding content.
Alvin Jaspers, Vail, CO:
Did anyone not want to be interviewed for fear or being publicly identified or ridiculed as unpatriotic?
Gary Weimberg:
Dear vail person - all the COs (conscientious objectors) were more than willing to talk, they had a need to express their feelings about peace and not killing.
Many soldiers, the sincere war fighters, were so traumatized by killing that they could not talk to us on camera, and many could not tell their friends and family what they had done. Quite a few of these thanked us for beginning the conversation, and others talked to us off camera. For those who have killed, it is an intense thing and we respected whatever they asked - to talk or not, to be in the film or not.
Many soldiers, the sincere war fighters, were so traumatized by killing that they could not talk to us on camera, and many could not tell their friends and family what they had done. Quite a few of these thanked us for beginning the conversation, and others talked to us off camera. For those who have killed, it is an intense thing and we respected whatever they asked - to talk or not, to be in the film or not.
Penny, cleveland, tn:
If there is a law stating a person can become a concientious objector than why are they being court martialed? *
Gary Weimberg:
Dear friend in TN,
There is a difference between the regulations of the army as written and as practiced (that is true of all laws everywhere) so sometimes CO's are court martialed for unfair reasons, in a punitive way.
Other times, they really do things against army regulations, like Camilo in the film - he applied for CO status, after he had gone AWOL. His court martial was for the AWOL. Of course, he is a genuine CO (in my opinion), but that was not the point of most importance to the court martial.
There is a difference between the regulations of the army as written and as practiced (that is true of all laws everywhere) so sometimes CO's are court martialed for unfair reasons, in a punitive way.
Other times, they really do things against army regulations, like Camilo in the film - he applied for CO status, after he had gone AWOL. His court martial was for the AWOL. Of course, he is a genuine CO (in my opinion), but that was not the point of most importance to the court martial.
Victoria, Oakland, CA:
Did you interview troops who's mission was not direct hand-to-hand combat, i.e., pilots, medical, clergy, etc.? *
Gary Weimberg:
Victoria,
We interviewed so so so many people, but we really focused on infantry, those who do killing a rifles distance away.
And yes, the distance to the act of killing is a big difference to soldiers, but it still is a huge impact on the individual.
There is much info on this in the literature, I recommend ON KILLING by David Grossman.
We interviewed so so so many people, but we really focused on infantry, those who do killing a rifles distance away.
And yes, the distance to the act of killing is a big difference to soldiers, but it still is a huge impact on the individual.
There is much info on this in the literature, I recommend ON KILLING by David Grossman.
Rena, Oklahoma:
How can we best get Americans to think about, and act on, issues of war and conscience?
Gary Weimberg:
Great question.
#1 - the important message of the film, beyond what the guys say, is a message of respect. Everyone in the film is treated with total 100% respect, and that makes discussion and solutions to problems possible.
So as simple as it is- we should resist bitterness and partisan political discourse. Then our neighbors and our communities can join together and agree that less war is of vital importance. When you say this with respect to soldiers and their mission, the soldiers can agree - because they want less war even more than civilians.
And also, less tv more human interaction.. We won't change the world, alone in our living rooms, we need to share and discuss -- so watch tv with friends and talk back to the bad parts!
#1 - the important message of the film, beyond what the guys say, is a message of respect. Everyone in the film is treated with total 100% respect, and that makes discussion and solutions to problems possible.
So as simple as it is- we should resist bitterness and partisan political discourse. Then our neighbors and our communities can join together and agree that less war is of vital importance. When you say this with respect to soldiers and their mission, the soldiers can agree - because they want less war even more than civilians.
And also, less tv more human interaction.. We won't change the world, alone in our living rooms, we need to share and discuss -- so watch tv with friends and talk back to the bad parts!
Ms. Cynthia, CA:
Shouldn't you have also included several soldiers who are struggling with PTSD?
Gary Weimberg:
Ms. Cynthia,
PTSD is so so important for all of us to know and talk about, and if you look carefully, you will see the signs of PTSD in the faces of some of the soldiers in the film - so they are there.
Why didn't we go into PTSD more? Well- in the 3 hour version we had a whole long segment about this. PTSD has risen right alongside of the rise in firing rates (rates of soldiers willing to shoot to kill upon command).
But in the end, lots of good material got left out. Hope people will look into this more beyond the film.
PTSD is so so important for all of us to know and talk about, and if you look carefully, you will see the signs of PTSD in the faces of some of the soldiers in the film - so they are there.
Why didn't we go into PTSD more? Well- in the 3 hour version we had a whole long segment about this. PTSD has risen right alongside of the rise in firing rates (rates of soldiers willing to shoot to kill upon command).
But in the end, lots of good material got left out. Hope people will look into this more beyond the film.
Cameron, Columbus, OH:
Why not include the thoughts of ‘average' American citizens in the documentary?
Gary Weimberg:
Dear Cameron in OH -
Didn't you think all these guys were average Americans?
What is an average person?
But also, every film is different, this film about war is entirely from the voices of soldiers. In fact, they are the most expert in the subject of killing and war - so they are the ones we went to.
We didn't use experts, or historians, so i think we did use only average Americans
Didn't you think all these guys were average Americans?
What is an average person?
But also, every film is different, this film about war is entirely from the voices of soldiers. In fact, they are the most expert in the subject of killing and war - so they are the ones we went to.
We didn't use experts, or historians, so i think we did use only average Americans
Christoper Davlin, Salt Lake City, UT:
Did or were you able to interview members of the C.Os former units? *
Gary Weimberg:
Yes, but not on camera - didn't feel we needed them. But - they confirmed what the COs said about their experiences.
Bill Taylor, Clarksville, MD:
Hopefully more soldiers will see with new eyes. Will the evolution of human consciousness yield peace within our lifetime?
Gary Weimberg:
Bill GREAT QUESTION
The honest answer is - it is up to us - all of us.
First step - we have to think about peace more. Many cannot even imagine a world without war. Many cannot even imagine a world with less war.
But both are possible - if we can imagine it.
For me, to meet soldiers who had gone to war and THEY found a way to believe in peace, even while the bullets were flying, suggests that there is more ways to peace than many assume.
And all this talk about peace here - is done with respect and admiration for the military - because that is the way to have less war - by including our brothers and sisters in the military in the conversation.
The honest answer is - it is up to us - all of us.
First step - we have to think about peace more. Many cannot even imagine a world without war. Many cannot even imagine a world with less war.
But both are possible - if we can imagine it.
For me, to meet soldiers who had gone to war and THEY found a way to believe in peace, even while the bullets were flying, suggests that there is more ways to peace than many assume.
And all this talk about peace here - is done with respect and admiration for the military - because that is the way to have less war - by including our brothers and sisters in the military in the conversation.
Grant Bakewell, Sacramento, California:
What's the role of a chaplain in assisting soldiers resolve such questions of conscience? *
Gary Weimberg:
Grant - good luck in this challenge that you personally face.
Chaplains have a crucial role - and we are very sorry we did not get one to appear in the film (despite trying very hard), but I think their role is so very difficult - to reconcile "thou shalt not kill" with "kill kill kill without mercy."
That is a real challenge.
But your challenge, coming from the peacemaker christian point of view, is different,
it seems you are asking, how as a chaplain can you have compassion for those who are willing to kill.
And this is an important question, and I feel strongly in myself - I tried to show love and acceptance in my face with every soldier I spoke to, no matter what they talked about. I tried to have compassion and respect for the soldier who confessed to me about committing war crimes.
I found that compassion in my heart, and could put that love on my face in a genuine way because these soldiers were willing to die to defend me - whether or not I'd asked them to.
It is easy to love and appreciate a fellow human being willing to sacrifice that much for me.
Chaplains have a crucial role - and we are very sorry we did not get one to appear in the film (despite trying very hard), but I think their role is so very difficult - to reconcile "thou shalt not kill" with "kill kill kill without mercy."
That is a real challenge.
But your challenge, coming from the peacemaker christian point of view, is different,
it seems you are asking, how as a chaplain can you have compassion for those who are willing to kill.
And this is an important question, and I feel strongly in myself - I tried to show love and acceptance in my face with every soldier I spoke to, no matter what they talked about. I tried to have compassion and respect for the soldier who confessed to me about committing war crimes.
I found that compassion in my heart, and could put that love on my face in a genuine way because these soldiers were willing to die to defend me - whether or not I'd asked them to.
It is easy to love and appreciate a fellow human being willing to sacrifice that much for me.
Moderator: This question comes from Grant Bakewell, who says, "I am a hospital-hospice chaplain who has worked in Veteran's hospitals and am deeply committed to peacemaking through nonviolence, for reasons of Christian conscience. Yet I wish to understand and honor soldiers who believe in, and feel called to participate in, a just war, police action, or protection of innocent civilians or endangered and oppressed persons through armed force."
Chyril, Modesto, Ca:
This extraordinary film needs to be shown in theaters everywhere. Where is it being shown now, and what are your future plans? *
Gary Weimberg:
Thank you chyril - I do appreciate your appreciation!
PBS will continue to show it in that typical PBS way somewhat random way.
But we are working now to set up screenings at schools, community places, faith places (churches temple mosques).
And of course, we are selling the dvd from our website
www.soldiers-themovie.com
and certain national churches are buying copies for their resource libraries, the National VA Chaplains center has 24 dvds for a pilot program to use it as a resource for chaplains.
The VA is using it in a couple locations (we hope to have more) as staff training tool, and using carefully selected excerpts as a therapeutic tool for soldiers.
So if anyone on this chat has specific uses in mind, please contact us directly so we can get those to happen,
especially VA sites. So far we are doing this one at a time. We would love to go national, but don't yet know how
we made this film to create discussion (like this - thanks all) and to save lives of soldiers suffering trauma over the issue of killing. Anyone who wants to sue this film as a tool in these or other ways - please contact us.
Thanks.
PBS will continue to show it in that typical PBS way somewhat random way.
But we are working now to set up screenings at schools, community places, faith places (churches temple mosques).
And of course, we are selling the dvd from our website
www.soldiers-themovie.com
and certain national churches are buying copies for their resource libraries, the National VA Chaplains center has 24 dvds for a pilot program to use it as a resource for chaplains.
The VA is using it in a couple locations (we hope to have more) as staff training tool, and using carefully selected excerpts as a therapeutic tool for soldiers.
So if anyone on this chat has specific uses in mind, please contact us directly so we can get those to happen,
especially VA sites. So far we are doing this one at a time. We would love to go national, but don't yet know how
we made this film to create discussion (like this - thanks all) and to save lives of soldiers suffering trauma over the issue of killing. Anyone who wants to sue this film as a tool in these or other ways - please contact us.
Thanks.
Moderator: The entire film is available on P.O.V.'s website until October 23rd.
http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2008/soldiersofconscience/fullfilm.html
Jim, Kansas City, MO:
Has anything positive to help returning soldiers occurred since the airing of your film? *
Gary Weimberg:
There are certainly not enough resources for returning soldiers, but there are some and they are important. We have a whole section of the website on the film for this:
http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2008/soldiersofconscience/resources.html
Look on the right side under resources.
There are others, too.
Don't feel alone soldiers!!!!
http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2008/soldiersofconscience/resources.html
Look on the right side under resources.
There are others, too.
Don't feel alone soldiers!!!!
Amanda, Sunnyvale, CA:
How can American civilians talk with and support members of the military returning home from Iraq?
Gary Weimberg:
Amanda - such a good question, forgive me if I give a simple answer - but it is a real answer.
Talking to soldiers with love and with respect will ALWAYS make a difference.
And more tangibly - work with others - in organizations, in your faith community, in your neighborhood. none of us solve the problems of the world alone, but we can with friends and neighbors and community.
Talking to soldiers with love and with respect will ALWAYS make a difference.
And more tangibly - work with others - in organizations, in your faith community, in your neighborhood. none of us solve the problems of the world alone, but we can with friends and neighbors and community.
Charles Kennedye, Oklahoma City:
Would you discuss the storytelling process during writing/editing, key ideas, limitations, and development?
Gary Weimberg:
Charles - it was intense.
We started before we knew the central theme and we discovered the central theme during the making of this movie. We knew we wanted to make a film that ALL audiences would feel included, soldiers civilians, bush supporters, bush haters - everyone, and have everyone feel respected.
So that meant one whole series of choices - not easy.
But film making is a collective art and we have been doing this for over 20 years, so the true answer is: we assembled a whole team of real friends and talented supportive people and we worked together with an intense commitment to telling this story as best we could - and supporting each other as we fell into fear and uncertainly about achieving that goal - the dark moments that always happen when a film really matters.
But everyone on the crew knew this and came through incredibly - from Kevin O'Brien our super talented cameraman to Todd Boekelheide our composer of magnificent music to my brother and co-editor Josh Peterson and of course our executive producers Stan and Mary Friedman
--- and we watched the film together many many times and just kept making changes.
And we had many many screenings outside of our team - with senior citizens, with rotc classes, with friends, with strangers...
and kept changing the film until it passed our own test of communicating... as you saw it.
it has been a privilege and an honor.
Oh - and we were very very very inspired by the thoughtful articulateness of ALL of our characters in the film - aren't they amazing?
We started before we knew the central theme and we discovered the central theme during the making of this movie. We knew we wanted to make a film that ALL audiences would feel included, soldiers civilians, bush supporters, bush haters - everyone, and have everyone feel respected.
So that meant one whole series of choices - not easy.
But film making is a collective art and we have been doing this for over 20 years, so the true answer is: we assembled a whole team of real friends and talented supportive people and we worked together with an intense commitment to telling this story as best we could - and supporting each other as we fell into fear and uncertainly about achieving that goal - the dark moments that always happen when a film really matters.
But everyone on the crew knew this and came through incredibly - from Kevin O'Brien our super talented cameraman to Todd Boekelheide our composer of magnificent music to my brother and co-editor Josh Peterson and of course our executive producers Stan and Mary Friedman
--- and we watched the film together many many times and just kept making changes.
And we had many many screenings outside of our team - with senior citizens, with rotc classes, with friends, with strangers...
and kept changing the film until it passed our own test of communicating... as you saw it.
it has been a privilege and an honor.
Oh - and we were very very very inspired by the thoughtful articulateness of ALL of our characters in the film - aren't they amazing?
That concludes today's chat. Thank you very much for joining us, Gary. Feel free to continue the conversation in the Archived Chat section. Simply click refresh in your browser window to see the archived section. Please join us next time.
Starred (*) questions have been edited by PBS editors for brevity and/or clarity. The original, unedited question can be found to the right under Audience Questions.
Thank you for this excellent
Thank you for this excellent coverage of conscientious objection in the military. These brave objectors are heroes in their own right.
VA Educational Tool
After viewing and reading the comments I think this might be a excellant educational tool for staff working with our veterans. I work in a state veterans long term care home and not including myself, most of the direct care staff are young nurses or certified nurse assistants. I think having them (staff) view your film would give them a better understanding of what's in our Vietnam, Korean War and the very old WWII veterans minds as some struggle daily to cope. As a Vietnam-Gulf War Veteran myself sometimes the horror of war returns, but I would do it all again, because I believe my service for the United States and it's citizens all those years was necessary for our country, during war and peace time.
If this film is available as a training tool please let me know where it can be found or purchased. Thank you.
I find this show, Soldiers
I find this show, Soldiers of Conscience, offensive and degrading to our troops. I am a Christian, a father, and a former military man and I am damn proud of my service to this country!! I joined the military full well knowing and understanding that I might have to take another life in the performance of my duties (during the first Persian Gulf) and accepted that fact before making the commitment to join. The military is NOT a Police Force, NOT a Rescue Mission, and NOT the Red Cross...it is the US Military, a FIGHTING branch of our government used to ensure our continued freedoms and rights. If you do not want to take another life...DO NOT join the military, that is its purpose. Do not portray our military as an abusive, unthinking, uncaring monster for doing there job and protecting our rights and freedom. The soldiers who defaulted there contract in this drama deserved to be put in prison...people depended on them to be at there side in a time of horror and combat...and they failed them. If this type of attitude was allowed in our military and (shudder) embraced, how could they be an effective combat force? After all that is what they are...a combat force. I think people tend to forget that there is "evil" in this world, people/countries/things that do such vile and disgusting things without thought or reason and we need those "fighting" men of honor and bravery to protect us and our families. There are people out there who will kill us simple because we believe in Christ, are from America, or because we are white...not "all" but there are evil people who believe that.
If you do not want to fight, fine, I understand and respect that but do NOT join the military and get other people killed!!! You do not have the right to cause these people harm/injury because you will not fight to protect your squadmate. Joining the military should not be based upon watching Saving Private Ryan or Blackhawk Down...it should be based on your personal choices and beliefs. Understand that you may and more than likely will be called upon to take another human life in defense of your country and squad mates, then make your decision.
I was very moved by this
I was very moved by this film because I was born in England and now I am 79. I remember the German bombing and all those horors. But I was raised a Quaker. My father was disabled with a terrible head injury in ww1. I lisened to the doodle bugs, the first rockets and I would think, a german soldier pushed that button and now that bomb is threatening me. If he had said" no I wont do it" or if he and I could meet we probably would be friends.As one soldier said Peace is possible if people would only think of their right to choose and their capacity to listen to eachother.
I agree with you 100%!! If
I agree with you 100%!!
If it's not those soldiers protecting us, then who will. I am sadden that we are unable to live in this world without peace, but that is the kind of world we all live in to this day. We do not all get along with one another. I wish we could, but until that day..I Thank every man, woman in the military for protecting our rights to freedom, and for letting us to be able to live the way we live today.
Iraq war
As a part time funeral director here in San Jose, CA, I participated in the burial of two soldiers in the past year. (There were, of course, more that my funeral home had buried but I was only involved in two.) Both young men were in their early twenties. Both fought honorably and served our country well. But the tragety and senselessness of their deaths at such a young age brings into clear focus what the C.O.s depicted in your film talked about. I may not have as clear, up front experience as the C.O. soldiers had but my experience was up front, in person and in my face as probably a non-conbatant civilian may have. I saw the devastation it had on their families. When looking at their deaths and the false reasons they were put in harm's way, just is upsetting. As Camelo said just imagine peace . . . (Wasn't this John Lennon's message to?)
Tom
"Soldiers of Conscience"
"Soldiers of Cowardice" is a more apt title.
PBS and the CPB as far as I'm concerned are enemies of the state in a time of war.
I'm going to contact my state representative tomorrow to make sure not a penny of my tax money goes into your Leftist terrorist appeasing anti-American channel.
Drop Dead!.
Tusk, I agree with you but
Tusk, I agree with you but unfortunately your post will be short-lived here. Any posts that are anti-PBS or their liberal agenda, will be promptly removed. I had questioned why Jewish producers, such as Weimberg, are so hell-bound on making our soldiers look bad in Iraq, yet would welcome them with outstretched arms should Israel be attacked. Also, why no Jewish producers make a documentary critical of America's participation in WWII. My post was removed within hours. The truth is like Kryptonite to liberals.
Very enlightened
Very enlightened comment!Your state representatives think like you and that's why we're in Iraq in the first place.
This PARTICULAR war must factor in this discussion...
This was a very good discussion on a subject too often ignored, but I think too little attention was paid to an enormous part of this problem, and that is: Was this war justified? It is a moot point to wonder if our actions on the battlefield were justified, if the war itself is a crime.
You touched upon the idea only briefly, by the first "C.O." interviewed--that our Country could be involved in such blantant, and awful, abuses of torture, and reprehensable conduct during a war-especially, during a war, was obviously against the heart, and soul, of anything we grew up believing "America" should be, and that the stated cause of this destruction was found to be false-and even questionable, undermined any justification for it. We have placed these heroic men into a moral morass, which should not be theirs to fight...it should be ours, and we have burdened them with errors in OUR conduct, and imprsioned them for it.
The major conflicts here, were not just a soldier's internal struggles, but a confrontation with something innately wrong, and a thing we should not have allowed to happen. The citizens of this Country abdicated their responsability to decide if this war was justified, and gave all power to a constitutionally illegal action of government: reason gave way to fear, hatred, and revenge, as we knowingly watched the bombs fall on Iraq-- and the end of everything we thought we were fighting for. The blood is on all our hands, and it will take more than an election-or blaming the soldiers, to get it off. This was OUR responsability.
I--unlike many who made this film, am not a part of a "peace movement", as I believe war will exist as long as testosterone does. However, your hopeful idea that C.O.'s could someday outnumber those willing to fight was compelling.
Unfortutnately, there are wars that need to be fought, because aggression is inbred, but we need to hold our leaders--and, ultimately ourselves, accountable for WHERE, AND WHEN...AND WHY, we send our soldiers to fight, and it should be "we the people" who grapple with the moral issues, the tactics used, and the rightousness of it's cause--and never-ever, abandon our rights of accessability, information, records, and power to alter any war done in our name.
The soldiers ARE heroes, and did their part: to go where we sent them, follow their orders, and fight honorably. We, however, have failed OUR part, and to even DISCUSS these men, and women on trial, being harrassed, going to prison, or being "dishonorably" discharged for their protest--WITHOUT condemning the American people, and this PARTICULAR administration instead, is wrong.
If we fail to identify this war as a criminal event, and hold the real instigators responsable, we can never bring justice back, and we may lose our most precious possession: To be who we think we are. This is NOT just a war, like any other, and if we discuss it as if it is, we are missing the real message: We did something horrible to a Country that didn't deserve it, and we must accept it, be sorry for it, and atone, or we are lost.
May God bless those who have suffered, and been punished, for our sakes, and may peace indeed prevail. Until then, however, let's take back the rule of law, and our Democracy: prosecute the unjust, free the just, and re-commit ourselves to a renewed participation, and attention to our fragile form of government, and-above all, teach our children what it should be, their role in it, and how easily it could be destroyed...and how it almost was.
Thank you for the film. "Blessed be the peacemakers..."
God Bless you for saying
God Bless you for saying what I've had on my mind and not being able to put in words. I am a Christian person, I believe this war in unjust, based on lies therefore it is not blessed by God.
Only God can clean of the evil of this world, only God will bring justice to the peace makers, only God can bring the freedom that frees the spirit, and not only the ego.
God Bless you and all those families who have lost so much by death in this war.
Chris is a peace maker not a war maker.
This PARTICULAR war continued...
I also want to add, "Blessed be the peacemakers..."...AND those who put themselves in harms way for their beliefs, their Country, and...me. Thank you, soldiers, I honor your bravery, and you selflessness for the good of all, and my prayer is that your Country, and it's people, will never again be swayed by fear, or emotion, in their sacred obligation of only sending our best, and brightest, to a conflict worthy of their valor. May God protect you all...even when we don't. My love, prayers, and gratitude...and hope for peace-which does not dishonor you, but only the never-ending, human fraility that will always need you there. You are the only blamless ones, and we all respect your service-even if we condemn this war. May you all come home soon...for good.
Soldiers of Conscience
Thank you so much for this film.....I shudder to think that I will also be found accountable because my voice was not heard, my rejection of this war and others has not been vigorus enough.
Please follow the showing of this film with a specific pitch to activism....with suggestions at the loca or national level and serious invitation that people get involved.
How can we let so many young people walk this wlak without our presence to their struggles....which are our struggles.
Do more on this subject!!!!\
Iraq an ILLEGAL WAR! soldiers duty to not obey illegal orders.
I agree with a previous comment by Cheryl and find it important to add information of how others can find how wrong it is for this war to not only continue but the reasons that our soldiers fighting this war are following illegal orders and are having the information kept from them by keeping the subject of it being an illegal war out of the news along with the oath they took upon entering the military. The film touched upon the oath briefly but the whole oath was not completed and the reference in the oath to the UCMJ was omitted where it concerns following orders "ACCORDING TO THE REGULATIONS AND THE UNIFORM CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE". The UCMJ in which military personnel have an obligation and a duty to disobey Unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ. To learn of the illegality of this Iraq war, preemptive war, war crimes, wars against peace and of an officer who has refused deployment to Iraq for 2 years and had his court martial indefinately suspended because of the refusal of out judicial system to accept evidence at his trial by witnesses he called to his defence to prove the war illegal. These witnesses are prominent people, lawyers and experts on international laws that refer to our treaties made after WWII concerning the Nuremberg war trials and the international court at the Hague and how we of the USA will be at some future time be accountable for our actions as a nation and individually fot the war crime deaths of so many of our own and other nations soldiers and civilians.Do research for this at these web sites ....www.thankyoult.org.........www.sagaw.org...........www.westpointgradsagainstthewar.org. There are also many others if you do searches. Presently there are plans to bring criminal complaint charges against many persons in the present administration by other countries and in this country which is to commence January 28th 2009 after this administration leaves office. For example the Andover Law School has recently convened a Bush war crimes conference. The truth about the illegality of this war has been kept from our troops as much as possible and the rest of us by those that have the power and influence to control most of the main stream media. The truth can still be found and when enough of us find it we must do something to make them accountable. That last step is the most important because in doing nothing we are complicit with their war crimes.
Soldier's of Conscience
We just finished watching "Soldier's of Conscience" and as Canadians, we are glad to see these soldiers oposing the war, they are heroes. We are sorry to see this war going on this long, taking many lives on both sides. Its a tragedy and our hope is that it will end soon. Its time to put down the guns and talk. We are sure everyone has had enough. God Bless the young men, women and civilians in Iraq. Lets stop the war!
We are glad to hear that this film is going to be seen in schools and churches, perhaps if it had been done a few years back we would have had more CO's.
My father is also a veteran of WW11
Peace everyone!
Some of these comments....
When I wrote my comments, above, I had not read the others before mine. Now, however, I feel I need to comment on the comments...
Such anger-both to PBS, this film, and the soldiers who found themselves in this unbearable position. May I first offer this as an example of why we will always have war, and why it will always be based on mindless aggression.
To call these men, "cowards", for speaking out about clearly criminal, immoral, and UNPATRIOTIC, acts, which were ORDERED by the very top of the chain of command, is far from being a truly "American" response, and shows we are, indeed, a broken Country, and at risk of losing our precious principals altogether. And then to call PBS, and the producers, of a film that simply try to DISCUSS the conflict, "unamerican", or criticize the pain these heroes have had, in even pointing out such atrocities, is shocking, to me, and you should be ashamed of yourself.
These men VOLUNTEERED to risk their lives in a clearly brutal battlefield, and would have given their lives freely-- just so you could sit back, and criticize them, when their beloved Country asked them to be worse than any enemy we could imagine fighting. Far from being "cowards", they are REAL heroes, for, not only speaking out in an environment where that is visciously dispised, but also when it will absolutely bring them severe punishment, and prison. Cowards, huh?
There have ALWAYS been war crimes, some "bad eggs", who commit unspeakable acts in the heat of battle, and wars that are less than righteous. However, THIS war attracted the best, and brightest, after a true, and insideous, attack of their Country, and they were the LAST ones to question their service, or the brutality, they willingly-and most certainly, would face. What they FOUND, however, was too wrong, too obviously evil, and too far beyond a soldier's-or, a human being's allowable conduct, and I honor those who stood up--and ANYONE who doesn't, has no RIGHT to say they: "support the troops".
Perhaps, we will someday get beyond our, "Lord of the Flies", mentality, and take the responsability, as ctizens, for how we deploy our precious men, and women, and punish those who ORDER them to commit atrocities. Honestly, you men who are thinking that we have to torture the enemy, for information, or to keep our Country safe--you're only obtaining lies, whipping up hatred, inhancing their inlistment, alienating the world, and ultimately, putting OUR soldiers in more danger, and insuring a truly vicious fight--we are a hundred times more unsafe now, because of this admistration actions-not the troops. What's wrong with this picture?
We are bound by certain "rules" of war--which have been discarded here. THAT was the time WE should have spoken out. How much could have been averted, if we had. I honor those who have faced punishment, imprisonment, and "dishonor" from their Country, for DOING THE RIGHT THING. I ALSO honor those who continued to serve, as that is their "duty". Yes, I honor both, and pray that God will bless them both, and show us how OUR indifference, arrogance, and fear, threw these heroic people under the bus, when we are the ones who should be on trial.
Shame on us, and shame on anyone who condemns a soldier who stands up for American principals-in any capacity, and shame on those who condemn Americans who actually care enough to talk about it. Isn't that what they are fighting for??? We are so polarized-"us, and them". Too busy cheering for the "team", when the "school" is burning down. We are on the verge of losing our Democracy, and everything we stand for. Can't we, at least, TALK ABOUT IT???? If you still can't, enjoy the next form of government, that comes along. Good luck speaking out at all, then.
causes of war
I would love to see a program about us helping eliminate the causes of war for resources of oil. I saw back in the 90's the series about the history of oil called "The Prize" Personally, I hate the ads that say our pension or mutual funds are invested in oil, or other fossil fuel stocks. It would be great to get people to start investing in clean energy and not oil that created 9/11 due to our dependence on Middle East oil. I will not buy mutual funds, my money is in solar and an electric car company. I also live green and drive a hybrid Honda with the hopes of buying the next generation of electric or plug in cars. As Einstein said, we cannot solve our problems with the same mindset that causes them." I have a Dream, We will live Green which is part of the solution to help stop the need for wars over resources. I had a chance by the way to attend the Air Force Academny when a kid but changed my mind when a German teacher in high school that was in World War II showed us pictures of the war and told us, war is insane that one never really sees or understands until older or experiences the insanity of it.
Environmentally,
William Zaffer
Scottsdale, Arizona
William Zaffer
Post Your Comment About the Chat
We reserve the right to remove posts that don't follow these guidelines. By submitting comments, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy, which include more details.