Talkback
Why is defining a combat job in the military today not so easy?
Why do you think women have been banned from units that engage in direct ground combat?
Is it possible for government policies to lessen some of the personal costs of deployment? If so, how?
Share your responses and your reactions to LIONESS.
Tell us what you think>>
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Hello, My name is Carolyn G. Dunbar MSN RN and I am a Nurse at the VA in New Orleans an I am a case manager for OEF/OIF soliders. I just recently attended a conference about OEF/OIF soliders in Las Vegas and they were going to show the "Lioness Team" video. I know that the VA had it but I had never watched it. Just like most of the comments said the video was astounding and when I was watching it with love in my heart for these women I found myself desperately wanting to meet Shannon personally. But much, much to my surprise she walked out on stage after the video was over and boy the joy that filled my heart. Then to add icing on the cake with a cherry on top we were allowed to ask questions to her. Well, I was so nervous I sang only the chorus of "Wind Beneath My Wings" to her when I really wanted to sing the whole song. Because she is a Hero to me just like all the other Women that served with her and all Veterans that served this country. I should go on the Oprah Show and sing that to all of them not for me to be seen or heard but it is what they desreve. I love and applaud them all. But Shannon is special to me. Shannon I Love you.
While I respect the women and men fighting for my right. And I agree they don't get the credit due, I do not think they should be allowed in Combat MOS's. ((Note there are exceptions to each and everyone of these rules))
1.) This one is the biggest problem, all PT scores are different in each branch for men and women are different. If women truly wanted to do the MOS they would have to make the minimum or better.
2.) Women in those units depicted were trained exactly as the men were, they didn't get any extra training that normally goes along with 11B. They never invaded Iraq or Afghanistan ((Not in the very front)). They do seizes on houses and the like, so yeah they do Military Police like training.
3.) If you introduced a women into the fraternity that is any combat MOS, chances are there will be tension in the unit, they could try and harass the women, or she would be ignored. This will prove catastrophic if they engage in a life-threatning scenario and can not relay on the women.
I'm sorry I just can't see putting any women in a direct-combat mos that is Infantry, Armor, Special forces, Artillery etc.
Women are the unsung heroes of our armed forces. Thank you for this moving documentary which brought to the forefront these brave women who sacrificed a part of themselves in a combat theatre. Your courage and strength is something my 11 year old daughter can be proud of and look up to. All of you are women that I want to proudly point to as role models for my daughter, rather than the silly teen pop stars whose antics are plastered across the television screen. You all rose to the occassion to meet an unexpected challenge with honor and dignity. As a first responder on 9/11, I want to thank you all for your service and sacrifice to this great nation, knowing that your efforts are not in vain. Thank you.
This comment is not only directed toward to Shannon Morgan but to all the "Lioness" in the US Military. Thank You, for your service to the greatest country in the world. I am a believer in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Shannon and all fellow Lioness, believe me when I say, He and only He knows your heart and your thoughts. He will always look over you and protect you, please believe that. Blessings and peace to all. Mike Aston
THANK YOU!!! So much for The Lioness and other films I've seen. You are to be commended for bringing attention to very important things going on in neighborhoods, in Irag with women and men. I loved the Lioness segment. I had no idea and that makes me angry. Thank you for telling me what I want to know even when it hurts.
Very moving documentary. I am proud of the women because they made the decision to do something with their lives that helps others, however, some may have looked at it as an opportunity to get education and healthcare without counting the cost and now regret it. It is a "job" that few can do and the consequences are very difficult to live with. War is hell and it is in a way that no one can prepare you for with lifelong consequences even for the "popular" wars of the past. Although, some may not see any good that can come out of it today, I think in years to come that they will realize that they have gained and their nation has benefited from their sacrifice.
I wonder why Independent Lens aired these programs so late/early in the evening or morning. The series on the Navy was prime time, or maybe I just missed the times it was on earlier.
I was compelled to log onto the website and make a comment after watching the documentary. It was a great show, and moved me so much! I love all the women and men serving our country no matter what there job is because you see, I too am prior military. I served in both the Regular Army '85-'87 and the National Guard '04-'06, so I do know a little bit about what the women in the Military go through. When I was stationed in Fischbach Germany doing Nuclear Weapons Security '85-'87 there was supposed to be "no women at this facility" because of the possible combat situation that could insue if we were ever attacked, but we weren't ever attacked and I did do the job. I have respect for the women that have gone before us which dates back to Revolutionary war nurses, and the ones that will follow. What I really am trying to say here..is that there is something that is expected from us when we sign that dotted line and raise our hands and swear to serve this country. We do not know what the future holds but we know we will be expected to be a part of it. I DO wish the government would officially declare it to be one way or the other as far as whether or not women should be in combat, maybe that would eliminate the women that sign up. I don't know...I do know that when I signed up it meant anything could happen, and that my training would reflect my skills. I was a Military Police Soldier! I'm proud to have served and I am blessed that I never had to kill anyone...My hat goes off to you guys, but I'm not shocked at all that you were a part of this because after all you did enlist. I know the military is not clear as to what our specific combat situations are supposed to be but it's not as if we are signing up for some type of "Summer Camp" It's the real deal out there. I also have a real hard time with anyone declaring that they are enlisting for the benefits ie: College, etc..as a way to get out of the small towns or whatever. The military should not be used as that. The military is supposed to be for defending our country and that is exactly what you guys did. I can never thank-you enough for my freedom...Thank-you!!!! You all deserve the commadations that are justified, and I hope you get them because speaking for myself I'm damned proud of all of you and I thank you from the bottom of my heart! It is because of our military that we are the land of the free and the home of the brave..God Bless America! Christy Ballard June 7th 2009
I just want you to thank the women involved in "lioness" and everyone that serves our country!!! I lost my best friend during Iraq. It wasn't actually in Iraq, he was on leave, after a term in Iraq, in Goergia and got in a motorcycle accident. It was a bad turn, but talking to him I believe he needed a way out. He also had a few other things happening that a young mind couldn't deal with.
BE STRONG, DON'T FORGET, BUT WORK WITH AND PLEASE DON'T LEAVE ANY MAN BEHIND(for all you GREAT AND WONDERFUL servers of our country). No matter what happened....what no one else has seen.....what you had to do on orders.....If you ask we will try to help. WE WOULD NOT BE A FREE COUNRTY IF YOU DIDN'T DO WHAT YOU DO!! I know it's hard, but pls. don't leave us behind.
And for anyone who morns and any life lost in combat... GOD BLESS YOU!!! Yes, I said GOD.
great film..dont know why I never knew this was going on..but dont know how to "do the job" in an Islamic country WITHOUT the female soldiers! I believe they should all get the combat infantrymans[persons?]badge and 201 file credit for their actions.
I just watched "Lioness" and felt moved to comment on the program and on its subjects.
First, thank you to the producers of this film. I hope it reaches a large, diverse audience.
Second, thank you to the Team Lioness women who shared their stories and their feelings. Thank you for letting us into your lives via this film. Thank you for your service.
Third, thank you also to the other women of our military who have seen combat, though we may never have heard of them.
My son was a soldier - at home 2 1/2 years now - and although I have mixed feelings about the war in Iraq, I am very, very proud of him and all the men and women who have served or are serving there - and in Afghanistan as well.
I have seen first-hand how war still threatens people long after they've returned to peaceful soil, and so I wish for these people true peace. Peace within, in this very life, on this very Earth. It may not be an easy peace, but I believe you can find it. Your courage is there, waiting to serve you.
Bless you sisters, brothers, mothers, fathers. Bless you sons and daughters.
Bless you.
I watched this film yesterday evening,and was amazed, I would like to thank all the Ladies for their honesty during the documentary, something we see all to little of nowadays. Specialist Shannon Morgan to me was the higlight of the film, Thanks to everyone in the making of the film we need to see more like this, in my hyumble opinion this should be shown at all schools across the US as a sign of patriotism and heroism.
God Bless the Lioness team and God Bless America
I loved the film...I watched it on Independent lens late at night..the thing that bothers me the most is not that women are in combat...we've always been in combat..it is documented over and over again...my friend(a writer just completed and published a book about the WW II female pilots...it is fiction based on solid fact. Her name is Jean Shelton and she has a web site) as I said ..it bothers me that we are not and have not been recognized...as being in front line combat for decades. pisses me off royal.
What a great film. I was so moved my all the women that it made me realize how selfish I have been. Their courage, strenght and willing to be on the front line of any battle just amazes me. May GOD bless each and every woman that services our great country.
I saw this program and was astonished - had no idea there was a Team Lioness or that women were involved in these combat missions. I agree better leadership and training is required. I'm glad Shannon kicked that guy in the nuts! His leadership endangered her life and others'. Shannon, you are a girl of action. If you want to go ahead and get into nursing, do not let anyone tell you that you should hold off if you think you are ready. Just start slow - take a class at a time to start. It may be great therapy and get your mind on new adventures in life. People need to remember that successful soldiers aren't just musclebound men. As the program pointed out, you need a range of skills, whether it be sharpshooting or a female with a sweet voice able to soothe and calm the Iraqi women and children.
As a Vietnam vet, all I can say is that I am so sad for all who must experience combat but especially for women who have had to endure it. If the truth was known & made public; women have been involved in combat many times in our history. I agree that this is somewhat different and more "aggresive". I think ALL female military personnel, past and present, should be honored & given the utmost respect. "We will never forget!"
Please get this program out to the 3 big ones (ABC,CBS,NBC). It should be mandatory viewing!!!! It totally broke my heart to see these women in situations I couldn't even imagine and this coming from a lady leatherneck. I think we all need to wake up and recognize the women of the armed forces for who they are. To see them after they return, struggling just to get thru a day. Why is it so important to get money out to failing car companies when the troops present and past can't even make it. America needs to recognize its top priorities and get the money to those most deserving!!!!
BRILLIANT!!! I have never heard of anything like this. These women, our sisters, are brave and their stories need to be widely known. Thank you to the women who made this film...that you for letting us know about these women warriors. My daughters and I watched and were deeply moved.
Why is defining a combat job in the military today not so easy? If you are in a warzone or you are sent to a war zone you need to be trained for it plan and simple - so you see it is easy.
Why do you think women have been banned from units that engage in direct ground combat? Because we are hypocrites. we have an all volunteer military. You sign up for it - you need to expect to be shot at. When we weren't at war (were we ever really not at war?) it was a good gig - get trained, travel. The party is over no more free ride ever again. Prepare to entrench america like Isreal is and has been for 50 years now. This war will never end.
Is it possible for government policies to lessen some of the personal costs of deployment? If so, how? Make the rules fair and consistent. Look for voluteers first.
Share your responses and your reactions to LIONESS. Shannon has some issues with dealing with the fact that she has killed. I have never killed and I can never know the demons she is fighting as a result. I can say that any soldier who supports a combat soldier, who has killed enemy combatants, has, by proxy, killed. Since I pay taxes that support military actions; voted for politicians who support those military operations; I, by proxy, have killed. So all Americans, except our children who don't pay taxes and don't vote, are guilty of killing our enemies. I honor you all. I salute you. and finally, thank you!
Thank you for making this film, which I just saw on PBS in Boise, ID.
In 1970-71, I served in Vietnam; I was one of less than 100 female Army officers (not including ANC and AMSC) who served in VN during the total time we were there.
While the intensity of the emotions created by serving in a combat zone may settle down after some time, you never forget it, and for the women I know who served there, you never get over it. It is/was, for me, a life-changing experience.
Thank you to the women who did serve and are serving in the military forces (my granddaughter is a USN RN) and "WELCOME HOME".
I just watched "Lioness" on PBS, and was absolutely impressed beyond all words at the taskings of these soldiers. I do hope that these women received their CIB, and I personally would be disappointed if they did not. They truly deserved to receive this honour.
Apr. 7, 2008--I teach a course on women and politics in which we discussed the Supreme Court decision that women should not be required to register for the draft. That decision grew into a more general conversation about women in the military. One student shared about her sister who is serving her second tour in Iraq. When she returned from her first tour, she would crawl under the bed and had to sleep with her sister because she was frightened. Today we watched this documentary. I have shown many documentaries over the years I have taught, but this one moved in a way that few others have. A few students and I stayed after the class was finished to 'debrief' and some of us shed tears. There is nothing good about war. And I am sad that these women will have frightening memories for the rest of their lives. While I did not agree with our invading Iraq, I value their self-sacrifice and hope that we do right by them in the years to come, providing sufficient money for counseling, etc. at VA hospitals and elsewhere.
I watched Lioness 4am on 3/23/09 w/my husband and we were apalled by the history channel for not reconising the woman that were there. The lioness are all Strong soldiers who should be prasied not hidden from public. Thank You ladies for serving for our country and our freedom. I apologize for the truam that is endured because of fighting for our freedom. I'm prouder today for america and women in our country Because of you. Thank you Megan Minnesota age 23
Thank you for the TRUTH! After watching this program this morning (4AM CST) I was amazed by the candidness of these brave women to tell their stories. This film should not be left for the select eyes of those who happen to watch PBS but should be broadcast WIDELY so that all Americans understand exactly what women in the Military do, despite what we are lead to believe. In addition, I am keeping STRONG my prayers for these women and the inner healing they have need of and I thank these brave women for being part of this important film. Thank you, most sincerely!
I watched Lioness last night (3-9-09) on PBS and what an absolutely moving experience! The trials and tribulations these amazing ladies went through are just amazing. Their grit, determination and individual personalities make this a truly awe inspiring film. My personal favorite of the team is Shannon. That amazing girl has been through hell and back, not only personally but professionally and is still standing tall. I have not served in the armed forces but have many friends that served in Viet Nam and subsequent conflicts and am a staunch supporter of our freedom and the second amendment.
My oldest step-son served 3 tours of Iraq with the Air Force in a JSTARS and we were on pins and needles every time he deployed. Without our soldiers fighting for us on foreign soil, we would have to fight here at home and the American public is not strong enough to deal with that. I would like to order a DVD of this outstanding film if it is available. I would also ask you to please pass along to Shannon that she is an impressive young lady and for her to hold her head up and be proud of who she is and what she is, an American icon, a strong willed and determined individual, she owes no one any apologies.
Many thanks for such a film.
Alan McClain
San Angelo, Texas
PS, While these amazing women proved they are certainly battle worthy and capable, I do not feel women should be at the battle front, I personally put women on a higher pedestal than grunt level.
Editors note:
Home DVD copies of LIONESS are available from:
Room 11 Productions
Wow...these women are forces to be reckoned with: tough, smart, committed, responsible. They're people I want on my side.
I honestly don't understand some of the comments here that still insist women have no place in combat. Did you watch this show? Did you not see these women kickin' @ss, physically and metaphorically? They serve(d) with honor and dignity and, apparently, success.
Shannon, Becky, Kate, Stacy, Ranie: thank you. You know your place (and it ain't just in the kitchen!)
*sent to filmmaker for response 3/10/09
Since women aren't allowed in combat, did these soldiers receive the CIB that they earned? If not, WHY NOT?
I think it is important to remember that the very first American casualty of the Iraqi offensive was 23 year old Hopi woman Lori Piestewa. She is also the first Native American woman to die in combat for the U.S.
I was an airborne Army journalist stationed at Fort Bragg, NC 1981-88.
By the 80's, female soldiers were sick, sick, sick of the debate: Are women in uniform an asset or a liability in combat? Nothing American women in uniform had done until then had proven the point: we are force multipliers in action.
Naively, most of us hoped for an opportunity to put to rest forever the question. Those who have "been there, done that" will understand when I say, "We were skilled, tough and ready to do whatever to prove our worth. With Grenada in 1983, a handful of women soldiers had the opportunity to push the envelope.
Decisive action that would stand as testimony for the ages would have to wait a full generation to be delivered by brave soldiers like those in Lioness. I am so proud of them and all of the women who have served in combat.
To all of you, I say... Some may think you still have something to prove, but you don't. Not to anyone, anywhere at any time. Carry that legacy with you, and others will carry that legacy forward. And 25 years from now, the next generation of female soldiers will make YOU proud!
To everyone-
I want to say thank you so much for all your support and warm wishes. i really do mean it from the bottom of my heart. I agreed to do this film to show that females can do a lot more than what people expect. It means a lot to me when I hear that people enjoyed watching the film and learned something out of it. My little sister, used some of the information that's out on the internet about Lioness and woman in combat, for one of her school papers to show how woman have comed along in the military over the years. She used the information out there on the net, but also personal experiences.Everytime I watch the film, I still cry like its my first time. It still touches me, to see what I have accomplished along with all these other ladies. And to Shannon, love you and miss you. Hope to hear from you soon. And to the rest of my lioness sister out there....smile.
I served in Vietnam and have witnessed the brutality and horrors of war up close. War is not what most people believe it is. I am proud of my service and the service of others serving in combat.
However, if some women are so determined to be equal to men in all ways. I am all for it. In the next war, you can go instead of my son.
i have to say that I was taken aback by the honesty of the woman that I feel men hold back on ,cause of theyre thought that they will be thought of as a lesser man ,which cant be farther from the truth.I really felt for shannon with her conflicts about taking a life .this is one thing that distiguishes us from animals,our thoughts and our actions to help and save other people even when we dont know them.I cant go to war Iam disabilled ,Ilost my kidneys when i was 16 and I have had 2 transplants and have watched my whole family die ,my father allmost in my arms at the age of 24.I still move ahead and I am currently doing home dialysis and back in my home town of kodiak alaska,its not easy and after watching what shannon and her group of womanand what they did over there I felt ashamed of how I have been dealing with my problems ,what problems these woman have made me proud to be an american again and for me to try harder and bitch less when I hit a wall.THANK YOU LADY LIONESSES andto especially you shannon I am very proud of your accomplissments and I know there will be more thisstory made me think about what tom hanks said before he diedin the ww2 movie he did make it worth it is what he said .you have andwill keep proving it thak you for your service .Richard Hartman exseiner@ak.net . pleasereply shannonI would like to talk or write bye and god bless
Thank you so much from the bottom of my heart and soul...for all the beautiful comments and support. To my cousin Kristy I love you and thank you call me at mom and dad'. Being a part of this film was not with any other intention than to educate people and hopefully help other soldiers alike in their recovery from this war. I read all the comments posted and am appaled myself that few have chose it upon themselves to make such ugly comments regarding women on the front lines...bullets have no gender discretion so why would you? The next time ur on a combat mission take a good look around b/c the soldier to the left or right may very well be a women who could possibly be the one to get ur butt back to your family. Once again thank you all so much it helps when you need it most.
Sincerely-
Spc. Shannon Morgan
Editors note:
We post all Talkback that meet our Talkback Guidelines. In the event your Talkback comment is not being posted, we would be glad to respond on an individual basis provided we have your contact information. Thank you for your understanding and continued support.
I just wanted to say that I wish all of you the best in your lives. This comes from someone who's sister serves in the military.
I saw this film and I loved it. My wife and I are both soldiers; she lived this. It is important for everyone to see this and get a slight understanding of what is going on. Having said that, WOMEN DON'T BELONG IN COMBAT ARMS MOSs. This is the main reason why, so watch this show! Men handle it better, but a soldier is a soldier and we do our duty, regardless of who has tits or not. Often times female medics are with the Infantry, Arty, or MPs, and they find themselves in that role. We must minimize their exposure to direct combat; that is not to say that they don't belong, but must be limited. The reasons are many, but morale is the primary reason.
I watch Independent Lens regularly. This program I watched in amazement. I see these as brave women willing to go any where they believe they are fighting for freedom. But, the US rules on women in combat were ignored. They were unprepared- yet USED!!!
I have never been a supporter of the War in Iraq. Now that I am more informed about the front line "lionesses" I am appalled. I believe these women are very brave to speak out so honestly about their experiences- there. My heart goes out to them as they try and repair the damage done to their psyche. God Bless them and give them courage to continue healing and seeking help in that process. I wonder how much help they are getting from the Military on this part of their healing. I know our guys have to fight for all the help they need.
I am employed with the Brain Injury Association of Michigan. We have a retired Maj from the Air Force on our staff. We hear the stories of how hard our young men have to fight for help and a proper diagnosis (TBIs') after combat.
Barbara Lee
BLUF*: I'm a Leader and I'm Embarrassed and Appalled.
I've been asked over and over, "But what do you think about this movie?," meaning 'Lioness'. "Don't you have an opinion?" Yes, most assuredly I have an opinion and thoughts on many things highlighted in the film. Leadership is the topic that immediately jumps out at me. I'll try and conceal my anger and frustration, but it's going to be difficult.
On Leadership: We, the leadership, failed these women on many levels, starting with the most basic principles of squad infantry tactics. Yes, I said infantry. At a Soldier's base, to include female Soldiers, we are all infantry Soldiers. Both males and females, all of us, get the same training in infantry tactics in our basic training. It is also reinforced in advance schooling and daily training. So in many ways these women were equipped with the knowledge necessary to participate and succeed. The reason many of the engagements they were involved in left them feeling confused, angry and sometimes alone in the street was due to a failure in leadership, not training. And it was inexcusable.
I can only speak for the Army, but there are a few things that are required before you embark on a mission. In fact, it's written into doctrine. It’s also pretty common sense type stuff so I can't imagine how it was overlooked. It's called pre-execution checks and rehearsals. If adequate pre-execution checks and rehearsals had been performed, many of the near death and tragic mistakes that occurred could have been prevented.
It's the leader's responsibility to make sure that every person on his/her team knows the hand and arm signals that will be used, knows the route, understands how to use every weapon system that will be employed on the mission, knows how to operate the radio, knows the frequencies for the radios, understands where the rally points are, knows what to do in every possible scenario you could imagine, etc. You just can't assume that everyone knows all these things and run out guns a blazin’.
And simple common sense tells you that if you are going to marry up two different branches of service and ask them to perform a mission together, there better damn well be some communication and briefings on the "how tos, what fors and whys." Any leader worth his/her salt knows that these are important pieces of information and they can determine whether the mission is a success or failure, whether people live or die. Hell, privates know this, so how the leadership chain missed it I have no friggin' idea.
On Recognition: Again, the fact that these women weren't adequately recognized for the bravery and participation is inexcusable. I also attribute this to a failure in leadership.
On follow-up and basic Soldier care after the mission: Again, a leadership failure. Thankfully Soldiers are now getting the help that they need, but it is way after the fact and long overdue. Trees have been killed and electrons burned over this topic. If you have missed out on the point that virtually thousands of our men and women are returning from theater with PTSD, depression, substance abuse problems and other like illnesses, then you've been living under a rock. Wake up!
In short, I’m a leader and I'm embarrassed and appalled. We owe these women an apology.
* BLUF - Bottom Line Up Front
I think that even though the V.N. era female soldier talking with Shannon at the Memorial was right -- if you haven't lived it, you can't understand it -- the film makers helped these terrific women tell their stories in such a way that viewers won't forget. It always seems that the immediacy of need is recognized and filled, then admission and recognition follows years, sometimes decades later. These women were sought out. Whatever their original roles, they executed their orders and fill a vital need that those on the ground in a position to assess the situation recognized as critical. These women follow in the painful footsteps of every other "firsts" that happen in history, and they are doing it with grace and dignity and pain, as soldiers and as human beings. I am proud of them, incredibly proud. But I won't do them a disservice by singling them out as women, as I think I heard from every one of their stories that they were proud of their service. I'm just proud of them, period. All of them. And I wish them God's speed and love, and the ability to get on with the rest of their stories that are certain to be as wonderful as the women themselves. And Shannon, thanks for pointing out to the squad leader his poor leadership skills. You may have inexoribly emblazoned in his memory how to extract his team appropriately and saved some other lives, too. Take care you. You'll make a great nurse when you're ready.
Wow, I hope some of the women from Team Lioness read this as well as the film makers. First of all thank you. I wish I could tell each one of you to your faces that your humble service is and was so very greatly appreciated. I am a total tomboy my whole life, work in concrete field and love to drive motorcycle, started watching Lioness, on Independent Lens and bawled as empathetically as I could for the whole show. You are all truest of women and I am on my knees to thank you for going in (as women often do)- without adequate anything in most cases and get the job done,fantastically. I hope you are all able to "get on with it," as Shannon had said, soon. You all deserve peace in your lives. I am so incredibly moved by what you did, I really can not say thank you enough. Thank You.
Although I don't necessarily agree w our involvement over in Iraq,I do feel as an American born Citizen,that it very important for me('we')to support the brave women & men who make up & serve in our US Armed Forces. That said, I found the[i]dependentlens feature about Team Lioness very moving indeed! These women, along w all the women who are currently serving our Military, as well as all the men who serve,are in my humble opinion,to be applauded & recognized for their bravery and duty to Country - especially the women from Team Lioness who found themselves in the middle of a battle, for which they had not previously trained to participate in, but had the mental strength & will to come out of it alive....I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure that this kind of action can be looked as 'heroic' on many,many levels!!
I hope and look forward to the day that we find out that Shannon has settled into her new career as an 'RN' ....as her mom said,"She's gonna be OK, it's just going to take some time'. On a lighter note, I don't recall Shannon ever revealing if that platoon leader she gave that little kick to in the 'family stones'is in fact,still talking w a high pitched voice or not - LOL. Hang in there Shannon ......you can make it ......all of us who watched this documentary are sending you good thoughts & rooting you on today,tomorrow, and the days ahead!!
God Bless & Peace to all the members of Team Lioness.
To the women whose stories were told in this film:
The stories alone were moving, yet as I walked through the halls of my all girls high school yesterday. I couldn't help but think of the few girls who would or already have joined the armed forces. What would their stories be and who would tell their Lioness tales? It hit me even more as my friend's boyfriend came to visit her after school in his Marine's dress uniform. He just got back from boot camp last week and she hadn't seen him yet. Though it was touching to see them finally get to see each other after almost 2.5 months the stories of team Lioness came to my mind. It made me think of the women not only fighting far from home but those still here with loved ones far away. To all of these women I wish you good luck and God Bless.
I caught this program about 1:30 am last night on Alabama Public Tv. Needless to say I'm a wee bit sleepy today but how can that compare with what these brave women went through. I couldnt stop watching it. I have such respect for you. Thank you for serving our country and your awesome braveness! The bit about Shannon eating the bass eggs was great. I did that as a child. Good ole country girl!
I am very proud to say that I am honored to be the mother of a bright, strong, beautiful LIONESS. She spent the past several months in Iraq. She is very proud of her country and even prouder to be a Female Marine. To all the ladies in this program and all those that were not mentioned... You Rock Ladies... We are all very proud of all you!!! Thanks for all that you give!!!
Thanks also to PBS for allowing these ladies to be recognized!!! Bravo!!!
i honestly dont know what to say. that show was incredible. the filmakers did a wonderful job for one thing, but the women featured in this film were absolutely incredible. i am in awe and i cannot believe it. i am just amazed. bravo bravo
To Shannon and the rest of the women this film was about...
Thank you so much for your sacrifice. My thoughts and prayers go with you. You woman are what this counrty is all about. I can not thank you enough for the sacrifice you have made. This country is truely blessed to have women like you. Good luck in all you do.
Dan C HHC 1/22 Scout Platoon 4ID 1995-1999
Thank you for exploring and illuminating the experiences of women who have served during this conflict. I wish that my little sister had never had to serve (Afganistan), but what saddens me most, strangely (since the whole ridiculousness of the war is always present) is that her service, sacrifices, and love are not recognized or even considered during discussions I've had or been, as a citizen, a part of. I love my sister greatly. Thank you for valuing and showing something of their experiences and their strength and their humanity. Katy is a wonderful person; it is heartening to see women who have been or continue to be in her position honored.
I pray and hope that we will end these wars soon, and that my sister and everyone else will be safe -- no matter what sects of Americans, Afghanis, or Iraqis we belong to.
I caught this last nite late and had to stay up and watch. I am so fascinated and proud of these incredible women. I am frustrated for them for the lack of recognition (until this film) watching them watch that History channel program together just made me mad. I pray that going forward the people who volunteer to protect and serve our country in this way are given the proper training. These women are so brave. Shannon - you moved me, I felt your heartache and want you to know I am praying for you and your wonderful parents with their kind hearts. Ladies -you ROCK!!!Kudos to the filmmakers for recognizing how important this was to make.
Thank you-
Amy
I just wathed the special "Lioness". I could go off on some political rant about women in the military. But I will not. I just want these soldiers and all of our military to know they have my upmost respect and my undying gratitude for serving our country. God bless.
I was blown away with this! What courage all these women have! I am especially proud they did their job, responded as they were called on, and I did not see any complaining or them refusing to go. Shannon, I wish you well, and hope you do get into nursing school. ( Yes, we women do learn to hunt and shoot here in Arkansas, got a deer yet?). I am proud of Shannon's bravery and the love she has shown toward her parents. To the women who served, what fine representatives you are for the military and America. Women do not get enough recognication in the military and this show proves it. Thank you IndependentLens for producing this. Sandy Hamblen, Mayflower, AR
Sunday, 17Nov2008. I stumbled upon the documentary "Team Lioness" while channel flipping looking for any action flick. As I listened to their personal accounts of combat experiences and saw the combat footage, I began to feel a connection with Specialist Shannon Morgan; Specialist Rebecca Nava; Major Kate Guttormsen; Captain Anastasia Breslow; Staff Sergeant Ranie Ruthig; and, Staff Sergeant Ranie Ruthig. While our wars are different, the results of combat stressors are the same, although the level and efffect of stress varies from one combatant to another.
I retired from the Marine Corps in 1983, after 20 years of service. Part of that service included tours of duty in Vietnam. I was in my 20s during my tour of combat. I am now 65 and still dealing with the demons of war. Nightmares, hypervigilance, hair-trigger startle response, isolation verging on anti-social, and avoidance behaviors were my daily companions until I got myself into therapy (at my wife's request).
During my last 4 years of Marine Corps service, as a senior military counselor working in a Navy Rehab facility, I started a discussion group for Vietnam veterans suffering the affects of substance abuse (illegal drugs, prescription drugs, alcohol, spouse abuse, etc). While the group started with a few Marine combat veterans, before the end of the 1st year we were seeing medical staff (surgeons, nurses, corpsmen who served in field hospitals), combat pilots, admin, suppy, motor T, flight line personnel, crew chief, officer and enlisted, male and female...... and the list goes on.
Our facility also provided care for families of combat veterans so they could begin to cope with and understand the effects of war on their loved ones.
I said all that to say this: I consider the members of "Team Lioness" as fellow warriors. I hope they have a smooth transition back in "the world". My sense is that they, too, will have thier demons.
Thank you for your service.
Top 'O'
As always, Independent Lens shows us the world, clearly. I thank all those who contributed to the making of the film, and of course our military in general. As touched as I was, I found myself w/the conundrum of 'what can I do?'... To bring up the issue of equal training to women to my Senators & Congressmen to pass laws to make changes so that women aren't put in the field w/unequal training, just frustrated me. It seems to me, if one is deployed to a foreign land in the middle of a war, they deserve complete & proper training equal to other U.S. military personnel assigned w/in the same war zone. And yet, I did note that in the film one military person insinuated to do so will just cause more problems for our military presently in Iraq. I truly wish they had offered an avenue to those of us who care and are willing to press on our Congressmen & Senators to make these changes law to protect all our military forces in war zones, or at least some ideas w/workable options that might resolve this shameful & dangerous oversight.
It is about PHYSIOLOGY, not brains or courage, or patriotism …… IT IS PHYSICAL !!!!!
When the Olympic Games become completely gender free (i.e. CO-ED) then we may consider giving the combat thing a chance. Until then, let the brutes (men) beat each other over the heads.
Yes, women can engage in combat, but history shows that only the strongest consistently engage successfully. IT IS PHYSICAL!!!!
If women in combat had been a good idea we would have been doing it for the last 5000+ years. We have not, and for very good reason. War is brutal and it comes down to simply brute strength a lot of times. After many days of fighting, sometimes it is not a matter of patriotism, courage, heart, desire, or any thing but brute strength just to survive and function. It is only the physical requirements that make men more suited to engage enemies in what is, with no reservations, a dirty, hard, and brutal endeavor.
If one researches (studies have been done) how many females in the military want to be in combat positions you will find that, with the exception of pilots, only a very small percentage want the “opportunity” to engage in direct combat. Females that have seen even a small part of what combat entails will gladly let the ‘brutes’ do it. However, you will find no shortage of women’s groups that have no idea of the physical demands of combat eagerly volunteer OTHER women for the opportunity to step forward.
I have served with women, I do not even remotely question their patriotism, courage, desire, or heart. To the woman, I think they would gladly let men do the fighting, and men would gladly do it. The nation that requires it’s women to engage the enemy’s men in combat is a sorry excuse of a nation and will not long be a nation.
Get the books:
“The Feminization of the American Military” (title may not be exact…its been a few years since I read it)
“Women in the Military…flirting with disaster”
It has NEVER been an issue in the military. It has only been a POLITICAL issue. There is not a single military in the world that puts women in direct conflict with men as a matter of policy. ONLY in the most desperate of times do women get put in combat…always as a last effort.
Women have NEVER been able to meet the same physical strength requirements as men. We have simply lowered the mens physical requirements over the years. It is the ONLY way the military could meet the POLITICAL requirements placed on the military leaders.
This is the most moving documentary I have seen, on so very many levels. I found it at 1 a.m. Saturday, Nov. 15, when I turned to PBS for something good to watch for a few minutes before going to bed; I felt tired and spent. I was immediately captivated and literally unable to move till the film's end. I wanted to wake everyone I knew to tell them about this film. As a woman, it meant so much. As an American, it gave me more insight on this war than anything out there to date.
My heart goes out to all of the women featured in the film and ones we might not have seen. I feel divinely inspired by these women -- so brave, forthright, intelligent, down to earth, and...humanitarians all. I believe they have offered a glimpse of what could be if women had more say about combat situations.
Millions of thanks to the Lioness Team for their bravery and willingness to share with us, and to the producers and film staff for such a wonderful work. I hope the film receives many honors but also that the team receives the recognition it deserves, NOW. In any case, I hope the team members know that they are appreciated now and will no doubt be honored for their amazing feat in the future. I cannot know what pain they might be going through, but I hope that somehow they can feel admiration and comfort from afar, from many viewers who no doubt were at least as amazed as me.
To Specialist Shannon Morgan: you ARE supposed to value life. To not have felt the emotions you did would make you a non-human. The struggles you have displayed are at the very heart of why as a nation we must probe and test our own leaders with regards of going to war! As a nation we must be sure there is NO other option... I applaud your values; continue to keep that heart that makes you very special not only to your own family but also to us all. Thank you and all the fine women who continue to forge ahead.
I watched Lioness last evening and was deeply moved by all of the women who participated in this film. Thank you for sharing your stories, insights, and feelings about your experiences. I hope this film reaches a large number of viewers as it is one of the most thoughtful and provocative documentaries I ever have viewed. Peace and best wishes to all of you, the directors, and others who helped make this film possible. bonnie
I turned onto PBS this morning early because my cat had awaken me . I didn't get to see all of it but it blessed my heart to see footage of these ladies in Iraq putting their lives on the line for me . Words from me can't say all I feel and how proud I am for their sacrifice to this country . We are a retired family living in Arkansas so I zoned in when I heard Shannon Morgan's story . If she reads this , I'd like to tell her about the change that took place in my life about 28 years ago . Ladies you all will be in our prayers along with the rest our friends in service.
Please contact us at erbysangusfarm@ozarkisp.net
Thank you
This was a very moving film. Let me say up front that I am from a military family and have always admired strong women and am considered a strong woman and a nurturer . and wow... these women are awesome.
Still... at the end. I was not sure what to think. Do these women want more combat training and combat assignments? Because it seems that it messed them up a lot. (I know there are a lot of men who are also messed up by being in combat.Post traumatic stress etc. but shouldn't We ask ourselves as a society just what is the difference between a man and a woman.
Physically they can even out preform men or at least keep up. My question is... If women are by nature the nurturers of a society, then could it be more harmful to them psychologically to be in a close combat situation where they are required to kill other humans? Do we as a society want women to do combat? Do women WANT to go into combat. This film was not clear about it.
Until we teach our children never to war, the war will never end.
I feel a sense of pride in realizing that America routinely produces such women as these Lionesses.
The impact of her tour of duty left Specialist Shannon Morgan struggling with a number of imponderable and conflicting thoughts. Among these is a concern that she and her fellow soldiers and marines are fighting a meaningless war.
Perhaps she may find some solace in the thought that we really don't know the meaning of anything we do in our lives. We don't know and are incapable of understanding for what purpose the universe was created. The best we can do is have faith that there is some perhaps unknowable higher meaning to our lives and a reason for existence.
I came to Team "Lioness" while looking for a PBS documentary on Evolution. As a devout feminist, This group of soldiers and their roles in the 1st. Engineer Battalion, 1st. Brigade Combat Team, 1st. Infantry Division, Camp Junction City, Ar Ramadi, Iraq, Sept. 03-Aug.04, interesting and fascinating, a film I never got to see but at least I have the basic information.
I don't know why the "feminized" lionESS term; I think of a lioness, the female who gives birth whose partner is a lion. What's the parallel here?
I really admire these women, what they did as individuals and, as a Team ("Lioness")
My mother was a radar technician in the U.K. during WW11. She pointed out enemy aircraft so they could be shot down. My father was in the RAF (U.K.) and was in Poland, according to him.
I was riveted by the first few minutes that I stumbled upon this show. I most impressed by Kate but also all of the women. I can't say thanks enough for serving.
I watched the show last night and was deeply moved. Although I am not affiliated with the military what so ever, I am a proud American who loves my country and respect the men and women who fight for our freedoms. It is because of their sacrafices of the past and the present we have the freedoms we do today!
I have watched history channel specials and media reports of soldiers fighting in Iraq and Afganastan and they have never spoke of woman soldiers in combat. The show was an eye opener for me because I never knew there was women fighting those firefights as well. Heroes should be given the recognition (and the training) they deserve, whether they are a man or a woman! I have nothing but respect for Team Lioness for the jobs they have done and the sacrafices they have made. I could only image it takes a strong person, man or woman, to be placed in combat situations and see and hear what they have been through. I hope they find comfort in knowing they made a differnce! I definately think we need to do more for our soldiers returning from combat. I hope all the soldiers can find the peace they deserve when they get home with the support from friends, family, and the government!
Thank you to all the woman in this film for sharing their experiences. I think as a country we can learn and grow from them. As a mother of two I thank you from the bottom of my heart to help make this world a better place for my kids to grow up in. It will effect us all!!
I am a relative of Shannon Morgan. I have not seen her in years and to see her for the first time on a show like this I just couldn't believe this is what she was doing. I knew that she was in Iraq at the time but I never could have guessed that it was something like that. I just wish you all lots of luck on continueing with your life. Shannon if you read this we all love you very much and hope that each day is a better day. I also want you to know that if you ever need a someone to talk to I can always listen. I know that I will never understand but I can be here for what ever you need. God Bless you all!!
This is one of the best documentaries I have ever seen. The switching back and forth from the footage taken on the front lines to the home settings was masterful. I felt I really got to know these women. How could one not be struck by the situation surrounding Rebecca Nava's family -- with her stepfather suffering from diabetes and her parent's having to take care of her toddler nephew while her sister and brother-in-law were deployed (and her husband, too. Who is not struck by her stepfather's situation in light of the $billions being spent on the war? The burden of this war is falling very unequally. And our government -- nay, our whole country had better step up for Shannon Morgan, who had baggage already. Thank goodness for her wonderful adoptive parents and her uncle. Thank you to the film makers for introducing us to all these fine, fine women. They are an inspiration.
Just saw "Lioness" tonight. Did those women earn their CIBs? I hope Shannon continues to seek help; I know that many of my contemporaries of the Vietnam era did not and they suffered and are still suffering. I am also saddened to hear that one of the women hesitated to seek help -- are men and women who experience combat still being stigmatized for seeking psychological assistance? Finally, I second Mr Urciuoli's comments that the men and women who serve and have served in our armed services deserve so much more.
Editors note: Anastasia Breslow is the only person to receive a CIB.
I am a non-combat Air Force Veteran, and a VMI alumnus. I recall the years when women were not admitted to the military acadamies. Now, I see that women are in combat, and I am very proud to see that they can get the job done. Even with no training, the Lioness performed their job undefire. The military forces should learn from this experience and have combat trained women.
I have a great amount of respect for all the Lioness, and I did cry a little as I was watching the program. The tears were not those of pity, but of pride! Those soilders showed courage and control underfire, they are special and all true Americans believe this. I pray each of these soilders have safe and properous lives, they have earned it.
I am a former WAC, I am now working with women who are suffering with PTSD, how can you let women work in the field with out knowing how to shoot or not know each other's language.Marine's verious army. Women should have the right to refuse these assignments. We have been working on women rights in the military, You think women should have right to refuse, because it showed the women did not know what was there role, and was lost in what they were to do, they did not knbow how to fire any of the wepopns. They were put into something dangeous. This is dangeous. I could not do it.
Some women suffer from sexual tramaa, Women are not a sex object either. Womens health is so important. Putting them in harms way is not the answer, with out the training, guessing what they are todo. Being alon in the street, not knowing they were alone,Commanders should know before they send them into combat that they did not know what to do. I could kill anyone. Wen are they going to udr robots yo fight these wars. I work or the VA in Long Beach as a volunteer, it is sad to see these peope with out legs and aems, they fix them up and send them back. Halgf human and half machine. Why not just use a machine.Then no one has to lose their life or be tramatised. I want to see peoples lives saved, people coming back want to die. How can the Government do that to people. It is time for Robot wars. Behind the walls of a house inderground. They can do it. Drone planes and Humve's that are drones. In my universe I want to see no moredeath and damage to our young people.
I hope this message can be sent to every woman in Team Lioness; you are my hero ladies...(to beans with the gender specific language, I am a woman). You ladies are the first heroes I have ever been able to identify with. I was never taught about the female contribution in wartime except for nurses (which I am a currently a RN nursing student, and seriously... M*A*S*H the T.V show, helped in my career choice) and Rosie Riveters, bless each and every one of them. Throughout history, a woman's contribution was never quite recognized, and it is still the case in 2008. Combat, always horrific, was brought to my personal psychological 'front door' by seeing Team Lioness do their job, and do it well. I do think women should be allowed to fight in combat. Duh! This is a new world of peace and a new country of equality.
Thank you PBS! You are warriors of peace for all humans. The work that your staff does makes this country, and this planet, a better place for all. Thank you!
I stumble across this documentary and was riveted to the television. My heart goes out to all the women who have served our country. I was wishing I could reach out and hug each and everyone of them. Women should not be involved in ground combat. Our nature is to heal and preserve life. I will say a prayer for them and hope they know that they survived for a reason. I feel so privledged to have heard their stories and am so thankful they were willing to share them.
Good Luck and God Bless each of them and their families.
I want to thank all the women who have served and who are curently serving. I really wish that all our soldiers could come home. All of which need support which should include counsuling. I am finding out that more people need this to help get them back on their feet. It is the best way to work through all the stuff that they have gone through. A lot of WWII and Vietnam vets wish they went to a therapist earlier. I am very proud of all our soldiers. Especially our women who have to prove themselves worthy from the start. May God bring you all home safe and soon.
Thank you!
Dear Team Lioness:
May God continue to bless each and every one of you and all of your loved ones. Your service to protect each other and your country will be remembered by many in America who have never met you, thanks to the Pbs Team Lioness program and video. May God give each of you Peace of Mind for your unknown deeds in Iraq and your much unknown negative memories. Not only is war a hell in itself, much like Vietnam, America does not yet know enough about what major sacrifices each one of you have made. As a 65 year old Black American female, and I cannot begin to imagine what I would have done, had I been in any of your shoes.
As difficult as daily life may be for any or all of you, please know that many of us who have learned about you will continue to pray for your good health and peace of mind, while having served your Country beyond the normal call of duty.
I am very grateful for your sacrifices and am asking many people to look up the Pbs Team Lioness video and all other information on you. Each of you has shown such courage during times of your own personal danger. When I say courage, you may have been terrified, but you did what your needed to do, anyway.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!
Sincerely,
Georgia Simms
Tonight 13 Nov 08 I watched Lioness with much pride and much saddness. I too am a retired Army female NCO and Officer. My saddness comes when I think I should be the one taking these Lioness positions instead of the youger women and mothers. I also have fought long and hard for men to reconize that we women can fill a combat slot just as easily as they can. I say hooray to Shannon for reminding the Marine platoon leader, by a swift kick to the groin, to never forget the last soldier that's covering the back of you're fire team! Shannon I would like to correspond with you. My life seems very much like yours.
My saddness goes out to each and every soldier male and female that thinks talking about their experience is detrimental to their career, that they are inherently weak, or that no one will understand. There are many here in the military/retired sector that are willing and able to understand your inablility to sleep, dropping to the ground when an explosion goes on (I still do after over 29 years).
Blessings to all our Lioness's. There may be days when you just want to leave this earth but remember there are also many that will suffer greatly at the loss of you. Most you don't even know... Like me.
Please seek your care. On active duty I talked to psychiatric nurses who helped me "off the record". Community help centers are also available. However; many years down the road you may want to make a VA claim and only by holding those records that showed you were treated on Active Duty or by the VA will you receive any and all monies owed to you by the Military and by the VA. What I am saying to all Veterans out there is to get a copy of EVERY treatment you receive by the military or on the economy and send it to a trusted family member or safety security box. You may not care about the paper work now but later in life you will with very little doubt. I thank the Creator that I took that advice from a Viet Nam Veteran that I had once treated at a Military Hospital.
I think often of all that have served in Peace Time and War. May blessings be a part of your life. Joannie
Joseph, This is not a draft military! Nobody asked her to raise her right hand and volunteer to join and army during a time of war, she did it knowing full well what the h*ll was going on! In the last several years, has the media not made it very clear what is going on over there? I feel no pitty for anyone who joins and then complains! Hollywood has made quite a few movies that shows how miserable life is during war and these women signed anyway! I too say God bless everyone who has the strength to serve our country, but I don't feel sorry for people who think it's too difficult.
Thank you. The words are so small, but they are all I have at this moment. I am moved beyond words by your film, Lioness. Thank you, thank you. BNK
thanks for the program of awareness without the political twist, and god bless the lioness
I was so moved by this film. The Lionesses are my new heroes. I watched it with my 3 year old daughter. She understood all of it. She first asked me if the Lionesses were boys. I was so amazed! I answered, that no they are "girls", only so that she could understand the gender difference. She also seemed confused. How can my 3-year old already be programmed to assume that only men should wear a uniform. I pray for all of our soldiers and want them to come home soon. My wish is that these courageous women will receive the recognition they deserve and that the military administration will finally consider the valuable contributions these intelligent women are capable of making to our military. This will be a major move in women's equal rights.
Thank you ladies! I was very moved by the pbs program; your stories have touched my heart. I wish you and your entire families a joyous holiday. Thank you.
I am a former member of the 1992 Presidential Commission on the Assignment of Women in the Armed Services, and the President of the Center for Military Readiness. We support women in the military, but not their placement in or near battalion-level direct ground combat units that are trained to attack the enemy with deliberate offensive action; i.e, Army and Marine infantry, Special Operations Forces, armor, artillery, and the like.
The Lioness soldiers are very brave and deserving of great respect. The Army has not taken this issue seriously, however, by reporting their actions to Congress in advance, as required by law. My article for the Duke University Journal of Gender Law & Policy, titled "Constructing the Co-Ed Military," covers the issue of women in combat in the first section. This is a link to the article
:http://www.law.duke.edu/shell/cite.pl?14+Duke+J.+Gender+L.+&+Pol%27y+815
Please contact me at this address: elaine@cmrlink.org.
Thank you,
Elaine Donnelly
My dad had sent me a link to this site and I think its so fascinating! I was in Ramadi during 2007, conducting Civil Military Operations to include the rebuilding of schools and the Womens Business Center. I had gone out everyday as the only female in my company to search women, walk through neighborhoods, pull security as the gunner, and be the lead driver in the convoy.
All the males in my company, team, and other elements, had never under any circumstance, cut me any slack because Im a woman. It was always an unspoken comraderie that we wear the same uniform, have gone through the exact same training and must meet the exact same standards in living overseas in order for everyone to come home. Once I had corrected my Major because he had opened a door for me and said "Ladies first." I simply said "Sir, Im not a lady, Im a soldier." I kept in contact with my dad all thoughout my tour and he had always called me "lioness" and I thought it was just something cute. To know that there were and currently are other females doing jobs along side the males, very much like I did, is extremely comforting.
I also think because of our strict policies on women on the front lines, the media doesnt report or make a clear enough distinction between names on whos male and whos female. It does seem like they kind of keep it "hush-hush." I think throughout the recent years of being over there, our military leaders should tap into the vary valuable resource known as the female soldier and lessen these policies. I know we have proven ourselves time and time again.
I watched Lioness last night on Thirteen and was riveted to the set. I am a Vietnam era Navy photographer veteran. I did not go to Vietnam and was glad not to go. I don't have the answer for the particular problem of women searches in Iraq, but I do not like to see our women soldiers put in with Marines under fire. I was very moved by all of the women soldiers in the film. Especially, with Shannon. She seems to have been most effected with the killing. She was doing a job she never should have been asked to do (this applies to all the Lionesses). Having said that, I am very proud of the way they carried out their extremely difficult tasks. I doubt, that I could or would do it at all. All I can say is that they and all the men and women serving in the armed forces deserve so much more from our country in terms of gratitude, respect and financial and social assistance. God Bless each and every one of them. Sincerely, Joseph Urciuoli.
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