Talkback
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My dad was a lawyer taken away in 1977.
Too many times I heard the desaparecidos must have been doing something for them to be killed. What they don't understand is that you could just open your mouth and said something that someone didn't agree and be taken away.
I understand the comparison with the Holocaust since many of the "torture techniques" used were taught by the Germans who escape to Argentina after WW2.
I'm also appalled by Kissinger's comments, the sight of Videla on the screen is disgusting.
Hi had the opportunity to watch nuestros desaparecidos documentary, and even though I dont agree with most of the things I watched, I wanted to congratulate to the film maker/ Director Juan Mandelbaund for such a good quality and touching material.
However, having born and raised in Buenos Aires, Argentina during those darks years (1971) I would like to make some comments. (Before starting with my thoughts I want to clarify that I am against any dictatorship government and their ruthless manners, considering them part of Argentinas problem. I truly believe in a constitutional government and in the power of the laws. Having said this, here are my comments:
First, I thought that was disproportionate to compare or at least generate an underlying comparison between the Holocausts and the desaparecidos.
The Jewish genocide was conceived to eliminate an entire population for the only reason of being Jewish.
In the Desaparecidos case, is different. One of the interviewed lady admitted candidly having committed crime without any sign of regret or repentance. So this confirms that it was a dirty war.
Second, the violence in that period was escalating. Many of these young fellows were fueled by a hard core communist ideology, which may sound naive, but in the context of violence, it was very harmful to the whole society.
The climate of extreme violence and ideology ultimately drove these extremist to death. And what we don't realize is that they were used and manipulated by unscrupulous political leaders, that the only gain they were seeking was their personal achievement.
The saddest part of all is that in the year 2009, Argentina is living economically and socially what proceeded those violent years, and some leaders are still fueling it.
What we don't see is that both sides were guilty and should be condemned. If we don't accept the errors from the past, and if we don't close that horrible chapter of our beloved country, we are bound to an endless cyclical history.
Christian Silahian
East Providence, Rhode Island.
Watching his was just an eye opener. Alot of the disappeared were my age, maybe a bit older. While I was graduating high school, going to college and falling in love, these poor souls were being tortured and worse! I find it horrible that this was not reported in the US and even more horrifying is that my government knew about these atrocities and did nothing! Thank you for making this very important documentary. I only hope lessons can be learned from it. If we forget history, we are bound to repeat it.
This film was shocking to me! How horrible! It makes me want to treasure our sacred democracy in America and truly hope and pray those people in Argentina. It was a real eye-opener to a sordid past of Argentina's history I never knew.
Another wonderful film from PBS. I would like to hear about its availability for purchase by my college library, so I may use it when I teach Sociology. Thank you, and deepest appreciation to the filmmaker for making this film.
Editors note:
Home and educational DVD copies of OUR DISAPPEARED/NUESTROS DESAPARECIDOS are available from Neoflix.
Thank you for making this film. It is very important to hear these stories. I hope we can all learn from them.
In the 70's my father fled Argentina and my mother was unable to return to Chile. They met in San Francisco where I was born and raised. I grew up hearing stories about tragic events in Latin America. So many of their friends were "disappeared" and I never got to hear the stories from their lips. Movies like yours help give voices to all of the people who stood up for what they believed in. They just wanted to bring justice to this world.
i just watched the film, which was an excellent documentary of the movement and the government's actions to quash it, and a very moving portrait of the people who were were most affected by it. unfortunately these sort of films always make me feel even more helpless in a world that seems filled with greed, corruption and blood lust. its seems the majority of people feel forced or freely choose to just go about their lives blinding themselves to these atrocities that have happened and continue to go on within this world of ours. what is an average to do? thank you for sharing this information.
This film has been powerful and still resonates-- like a last note on a poignant piece of orchestral music-- it is still resonating within me. So many of the photos of the Argentina in the 70s look like the emerging countries in Southeast Asia. We had our own Student Revolution in the 70s in the Philippines wherein the youth took up the struggles of the poor and disenfranchised to fight the injustice against the rich and powerful. We did not have the massive ranks of disappeared like Argentina, but there were the student leaders conveniently gone missing. Thank you for this work, Juan Mandelbaum. To forget the lessons of the past, is to repeat the mistakes in the future. Jocelyn
I want to congratulate Juan Mandelbaun and his associates for creating this film. It lets the people around the world know what happened in Argentina during the 70's. It's tragic that so many young people died and they're not with us today. I hope that people around the world learn from this and other similar stories, and make us more human in order not to be so cruel to other humans. I hope somebody would do a film about what happened in Chile and other countries. Thanks.
Juan,
This afternoon I just watched your moving documentary on this tragic story about the dark past of Argentina. But I am inspired by the number of people who risked and lost their lives seeking to improve the lives of their fellow citizens through social activism and community services. Your film acts in remembrance of them for their families, children and the future generations of Argentina.
Your film comes at a time when the Obama administration has an opportunity to define our country’s values on human right in determining whether we as a nation will tolerate the policies of rendition and torture. If an administration believes it has the powers to indentify and detroy any entity dangerous to the US, then such a government can easily justify kidnapping and torturing the enemies within.
A devastating elegy for our global world. I do not care about the shots of Argentina today, I do not care about the vile and obscene defenses of military repression and murder here in the US or in Argetina in these comments.
To see Patricia, to see her sister, to see the gym teacher, all strong minds who believed in social justice and not becoming a corporate whore, and to know that they were murdered so that wars and economic inequality might persist as they have - there is no uplift to this profound and enduring film. The police, the courts, the military, the authorities, if they are not overtly killing now, in that large of a scale, they are no less strong, and much, much deeper.
Dear Juan,
My wife and I watched the film the other night and are still, and probably always will be affected by it. Accepting that such treatment of one group of humans by another is even possible makes going on with life a bit more difficult even though we know by the history of WWII and before that such things have happened throughout the human experience.
The glimmer of hope is that people like you also exist to shine light on this behavior, and by doing so reduce the probability of it continuing by a measureable amount. It may take another 5000 years of recorded history to completely eliminate such events, but I believe your work will reduce that time to achieve universal humanity amongst us.
Thank you Juan
Angelo Dounoucos
=
A very powerful film. I saw it twice, once at Lincoln Center and again now on Independent Lens; it hit me as hard the second time as it did the first time I saw it. Thank you, Juan.
The film succeeds in the very difficult task of conveying, in the same piece of work, both the personal tragedies and a political analysis of the events. Having lost friends in the so-called "Dirty War" I am deeply thankful for the effort to maintain their memory alive. It is very important to listen to those that remark in the film that "this was not a war, it was repression by a very powerful military forces against everyone, militant or not." This has clear implications concerning the many "wars" that are taking place in the world today, pitching weak, powerless and desperate individuals against well oiled military machines.
The newsreel in which Henry Kissinger praises Videla is revealing, as it helps us to realize the degree of complicity of the US government in establishing many of the murderous military dictatorships that dominated South America in that period, particularly in Argentina and Chile. Again, we shouldn't assume that it was a different time -- it could happen again, and we must remain watchful about the current events in South America.
Once more, thanks for a very touching film.
Touching and powerfull documental film.
I'm from Argentina living in Los Angeles since 1977 after my brother was one of the missing ones for three months.I remember people been picked up in the streets at any time of the day without importance of age or gender. This film should be showed all over the world so people could see what really happens in the lates 70s.,early 80s.,in my country.
Juan, que bonito documental. Lograste plasmar con mucha integridad tus recuerdos, tu sensibilidad, tus amigos en un documental que te deja con muchas preguntas. Aun cuando esto ocurrio hace tres decadas atras. Dices tantos con tus lagrimas cuando tu amiga te muestra una fotos de Patricia que nunca habias visto antes--en ese momento me percate que eras otra victima de esta epoca tan obscura de tu bella Argentina.
El espiritu de las victimas sale a luz en las palabras de dos padres--Don Rafa y Dona Ruth. Es esa la verdadera leccion de tu documental--Nunca los olvidaremos, siempre los recordaremos con mucho carino.
Tu bella Argentina estaria contando otra historia si todas esas victimas hubiesen sobrevivido.
Gracias por haberte permitido contar tu historia con tanto candor, con tanto valor y aun mas importante con tanto carino por tu gente.
Omar Sanabria desde Miami
English translation:
Juan, what a beautiful documentary. You molded with integrity your memories, your sensitivity, your friends, in a documentary that leaves you with many questions. Even though this happened three decades ago. You say so much with your tears when your friend shows you photos of Patricia that you had never seen. At that moment I realized that you were also a victim from that dark period of your beautiful Argentina.
The victims' spirit comes to light in their parents' words: Mr. Rafa and Ms. Ruth. This is your documentary's true lesson --we will never forget them, we will always remember them with great love.
Your beautiful Argentina would be telling a very different story if the victims would have survived.
Thank you for allowing yourself to tell your story with such candor, such courage, and above all, with so much love for your people.
Omar Sanabria from Miami.
For a few years now I have preached an idealism for a radical social change in many areas that I personally disagree with as well as those of others who feel a needed change. This film and the events that it documented has deepened my realization of the massive commitment and sacrifice, made by each and every citizen, that would be necessary for my ideal to be successful.
In my ideal, my basic conclusion has been that, ultimaely, true power is in the hands of the masses and that we can begin to see where industrial and political corruption begins when we look in the mirror. With us it begins and with us it can end. Civil disobedience and ultra conservative consumerism are two of several weapons that we, the people, can utilize intelligently to have more control over the way we live. There are so many lessons throughout history to generate cautious forethought to replace blind naivety as a part of our personal, then social, decision making. Without violence or retaliation.
However, I have learned from watching this film that when an unimagineable ruthlessness and brutality, laced with religious righteousness, can be employed by an equally unimagineabley corrupt and self-serving government, extreme fear is an overwhelming weapon.
I still believe that we would all be better off if we quit shopping at Wal-Mart.
I just finished watching the documentary and now I have a better understanding of what happened and how it all went down. I lived in Buenos Aires for about a year in 2004 and I was truly moved by this story. I love the country and if I could afforded I would live there and not here in the USA. I am appalled at Kissingers comments of Videla. I feel for the families of the victims. God bless them all and as far as I am concerned I will be back in Argentina.
I don't claim to know much about the facts surrounding the documentary but I read more about the Montoneros: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montoneros and their terrorist assaults on American interests: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montoneros
I think the filmmaker's indictment of the U.S. is heavy handed considering the tangible and manifest threats of radical, violent communisim taking root in Argentina and elsewhere.
I feel horrible for Pato and the others, but how can a group that espouses violence as a means to an end not expect to be met with violence in return? The Junta committed atrocities, no doubt. But what if Communism took route in S. America? Would it be another North Korea?
beautiful, moving film. a must see.
James Segrest asks about this quote, indeed one of the most horrific one can imagine. It was said by General Iberico Saint Jean, at the time governor of the province of Buenos Aires: “First we will kill all the subversives, then we will kill their collaborators; then their sympathizers; later those who remain indifferent. And finally we will kill the timid.”
I just finished watching this film on our local ny-area pbs station and I cannot stop thinking about the victims,their families and the role that the USA played in this. I want to thank Mr.Mandelbaum for providing us with this informative, brilliant and compelling film. What a great way to honor the fallen heroes and a great way to remind the world to never forget.
This is an astonishing, thorough, and heartbreaking film and piece of reporting. What a gentle, deft hand Juan Mandelbaum brings to what must have been a personally excruciating project. I kept thinking: 'the truth will set you free' and that this film is a very necessary and ultimately liberating encounter for good and strong people of Argentina and the world.
One practical note: this needs to be seen throughout the PBS system; I have many friends around the country who could not find it on air on Monday (Connecticut, Detroit, northern California, etc.).
I had conservative teachers until high school, and so mostly supported Vietnam, etc. until I saw the nuts support killing innocent students at Kent State in 1970 [much like the hatred against Pres. Obama now].http://blogs.pbs.org/itvs/mt3/mt.cgi?__mode=view&_type=comment&id=158819&blog_id=29
So I went far left until reading more about Stalin's massive crimes, and that this side also could be nothing less than insane.
I think the mother who fled Hitler's Europe was right, violence rarely does good [although the US, Britian, etc. deserve so much credit for fighting Japan and Nazi's]. Certainly the US has suffered from Kissinger and his Neo-Con pals like Cheney who got us into another giant mess, Iraq.
This program was done with love and care. So many of those idealist's were so beautiful, if maybe naive too. I'll never forget the mother who saw the fascist's coming while with her little girl at the zoo, and bravely walked away from her, hoping someone would find her. With care from stranger's and relatives she ended up doing very well in the US.
Encourage your friends to watch and support PBS, a national treasure!
This was one of the best Independent Lens programs ever. The sheer power of the interviews brought tears to my eyes.
I just recently viewed your documentary on the PBS series Independent Lens, and I was deeply moved. Having been born in 1982, I was not alive for Argentina's Dirty Wars, and until recently did not know much about it. But your documentary was deeply touching. It was an unbelievable journey, tracing the military coup and subsequent violence against liberals. All the while chronicling the lives that were sadly cut short by the sickening state-sponsored violence. I was profoundly affected by your film. Congratulations on a honorable effort to remember the people who's lives were ended by such a horrible tragedy.
Does someone remember the quote of the general who started with, "First we murder the ....,(I don't remember)... and finally we murder the timid."???
This is the most enlightening insight into the dictatorial mind I have ever heard. Please put this quote into print.
I am from Brazil. The military regime in Argentina was particularly brutal but similar actions were also taken by other military regimes across South America (e.g., Brazil and Chile). All these military regimes came to life at roughly the same time and they all received full support of the United States. At the time, supporting these regimes and their brutal actions was the strategy that the US came up with in order to make sure that communism would not spread in South America. The US knew full well what was going on in these countries and it actively supported these regimes - to the point of even training the local security forces, supplying them with weapons, etc. This is the reason why many people in South America are still highly suspicious of the US to this day, which is a shame.
Just like another commentator - I also could not sleep last night. I was very touch by the movie. I was personally puzzled by the fact that I was a child in Brazil at the same period of time with friends and family in Uruguay and Argentina. Throughout the 70's we vacationed in Uruguay and even in Argentina - and I I did not know about these atrocities and we leaved our life as if nothing was happening. After the show I immediatly called my mother to ask her how was that possible. My mom confirmed that they knew indeed of some of the atrocities, and even though my family did not know anyone in particular, all our friends from Buenos Aires knew of someone who had disappeared. She also knew of families who would sell all of their possessions, their own home to send a son or a daughter to another country. I was particularly touch by Mrs. Weiz who lost two sons and has an amazing spirit and so much grace. Juan Mendelbaum I congratulate you for an amazing documentary and also for opening my eyes for this terrible truth.
The film was intensely moving and touching. I could not sleep last night after viewing it on our local PBS station channel 9. I am haunted by the images the disappeared. I was student traveling in Argentina in 1972 and remember the excitement and hope that Argentina had with the return of Peron.
Unfortunately those hopes were quickly dashed. I commend the film maker for his thoughtful insights and remain forever optimistic that we can learn from these horrible events. I work in a non-profit cultural center that formed because of the military coup that overthrew Salvador Allende of Chile. Many of staff were exiled from Chile. Many of our friends and families were victims of the military coups in Latin America that were aided and abetted by the U.S. government.
La Peña Cultural Center
I, too was born in Buenos Aires but I moved to the U.S. as a child. What about allegations that many of the "disappeared", especially, the Montoneros, are alive and well and living in Spain and other European countries? There was violonce on both, all, sides. Many, many, military as well as pro-govt. families were bombed in their own homes by "friends" of their children... Violence is never the answer. The junta responded to terrorism. However, they went over the top. That is the danger of a military govt. or a dictatorship.
I caught this last night. Wow.
For those more interested in this issue there is a great movie called "Cautiva" that shows the story of a child like this.
I had no idea this had happened. A true masterpiece of film work. I couldn't help but remain glued to my t.v. set for the duration of this film. Such a tragic end to so many young, promising souls.
This was a heart wrenching documentary, it continues to be a horrible chapter in history and Argentina continues to suffer economically and socially because of the rampant destruction of liberal thought.
I was especially moved by Ruth and how bravely she has lived her life despite surviving such horrors and losing not only her parents but her children to genocide.
I don't think that Marcelo and Susana were being sent home for visits because they were collaborating.
Marcelo and Susana were most likely sent home as propaganda; the Junta wanted to show the media and the West that the detainees were alive and well. Allowing detainees to be seen in public and make phone calls placated the Junta's critics and created the illusion that these young people were perhaps being held somewhere, that they were still alive, and gave hope to the families of the victims. What family wouldn't want to believe that their child was alive?
If the families believed their children were still alive the were more likely to not fight back for fear that their child would be killed. They could not have known that their children had been murdered long before.
It is horrible to know that so few war criminals have faced justice, and that witnesses who try to testify have been killed. There is a stubborn evil there and it's disheartening to think that these young people may never get justice. But they will always be remembered.
A fabulous film. Saw it last night on KQED (SF Bay Area.)
I had NO idea. What a loss of intelligent, educated idealists.
(At risk of being mundane, I kept thinking back to Kent State and how those four deaths were widely recognized as a national tragedy.)
Thank you so much. Great work.
Nunca había comprendido en su totalidad la guerra sucia de Argentina hasta que vi este excelente documental de Juan Mandelbaum. Admiro la imparcialidad con que este gran director presentó los dos lados de la moneda. En realidad este documental trasciende a la propia realidad Argentina para mostrarnos hasta donde puede llegar la crueldad humana cuando no es controlada. Definitivamente que es un documental que muchos debemos ver para no repetir las atrocidades del pasado. Felicito a Independent Lens por tener la visión de presentar un film tan importante al mundo.
English translation:
I never fully understood the dirty war in Argentina until I saw this excellent documentary by Juan Mandelbaum. I admire the impartiality with which this great director presented the two sides of the coin. Actually this documentary transcends Argentina's own reality to show how far human cruelty will go when uncontrolled. This is definitely a documentary that many of us must see to avoid repeating the atrocities of the past. I congratulate Independent Lens for having the vision to present such an important film to the world.
What a powerful film. I was enthralled throughout. As a college student in the U.S. in the late 1970's, I cannot imagine how different my experience was compared to the subjects in the film. Bravo, for a wonderful, touching, and very enlightening film.
A most remarkable documentary. We were in Argentina in 1959/1961 and have traveled back to Argentina twice a year since 2003. We have found Argentina to be a wonderful country and the friends we have made do not like to talk about the years of the Motoneros and the troubles of that era. We are ashamed of the role of the U.S. Government played (or didn't play) in the atrocities of the ruling junta.
This is a very powerful and moving documentary. Thank you for making this your personal journey!
Felicitaciones por este trabajo, que gran emoción tener la oportunidad de ver el film, lejos de nuestra pobre, bapuleada Y tan querida Argentina, es revivir parte de nuestra historia. Volver a vivir esa parte de nuestra historia tan terrible, tan negra y que nunca terminamos de saber la verdad. Recordar momentos vividos, tener presente a los que ya no están, a los que no sabemos donde están y cuando se fueron. Soy de Paraná (Entre Ríos) tengo 56 años y por razones muy diferentes estoy viviendo en Pittsburgh PA (mi hijo tiene Transplante de hígado)
GRACIAS, que nuestra triste historia se conozca, y además es una forma de recordar a los que luchan por sus ideales (teniendo o no toda la razón) ya que era una guerra deberían haber muerto en un campo de batalla y no en un agujero.
English translation:
Congratulations on this work, I am very moved to have had the opportunity to see this film, far from our poor, beaten and beloved Argentina, reliving part of our history. To re-live that part of our history, so terrible and dark, of which we will never know the full truth. To remember moments lived, to remember those who are no longer with us, the ones we don't know where they are or when they were taken. I am from Paraná (Entre Rios) I am 56 years and for very different reasons I live in Pittsburgh PA (my son has had a liver transplant). THANK YOU, I hope our sad history will be known, this is also a way to remember those who fought for their ideals (whether right or wrong), It was a war: they should have died on a battlefield and not in a hole.
Wasn't there an Argentine general who, on his death bed, confessed to being a part of the disappeared conspiracy? And, didn't this general assert that advice on how best to terminate these young lives had been sought from the Catholic clergy of Argentina? Isn't it true that the advice from the clergy was that throwing the kids out of a Navy airplane over the ocean was the most Christian way to do it?
Thank you Juan Mandelbaum for sharing your film with PBS. It was both enlightening and tragic..and beautifully done. I had no idea this happened in Argentina in the late 1970s. It is tragic that so many good people lost their lives because they believed in a better society.
Unfortunately, every action produces an equal and opposite reaction. Advocates of the use of force, create a counterforce. The Bolshevik revolution in the East, created an even more vicious opposing fascist and even Nazi reaction in the West.
I was married to a far left-leaning Argentinian woman at one time who had to flee the country, and so gained some insights into the matter. Those who believe that violence can right social injustices sometimes pay the ultimate price, and take many innocents down with them.
Along with the horror and sadness I felt as I watched this moving, important piece, I thought of our own nation's complicity in these crimes against humanity and the pain and suffering this complicity caused and continues to cause today. It's shameful and astounding what atrocities our nation in this case, specifically, Henry Kissinger and the Nixon/Ford administrations have historically supported and/or perpetrated for the sake of political expediency and "national security." Should not our own criminally complicit be held accountable, as must be the Argentine perpetrators of this unconscionable terror? If we cannot apply the standards of international law to our own, our current "war on terror," and all other U.S. claims to moral leadership in the world are founded on selective historical amnesia and downright hypocrisy.
A moving and touching film I could help but think of the happy and carefree times I was having in my blessed life here in the US while those my same age were been arrested and killed. I am not so young or carefree now but I am thankfull for the life I had and the reminder that you have given to me of the important role memory and relooking at the past holds for us now and in shaping our future. May we remain a tolerant and free nation and my we seek to support those who seek such lives in their own lands.
Thank you, thank you very much
I heard an interview about your film on the PRI program 'The World' on my local PBS station KPBS, in San Diego, CA., today Sept. 21. The film is not going to be shown on my local station as stated in the radio piece. I wanted very much to see it so I purchased a copy.
I have seen another documentary about the children of the Los Desparecidos a couple of years ago at The San Diego Latino Film Festival.
I have also read two novels by Lawrence Thornton, Imagining Argentina & Naming the Spirits, which are based on events of that time and the Disappeared.
Both the books and the film moved me very much, hauntingly so. Though I am an American born and raised "Guerita", somehow the story of these people has deeply resonated with me. I look forward to seeing the film and sharing it with others.
