E-mail a friendDonna Brazile
original airdate January 20, 2004
The first African American woman to head a major presidential campaign (Gore-Lieberman 2000), Brazile is a veteran campaign strategist and grassroots political consultant. Prior to joining the Gore campaign, she was DC Congresswoman Eleanor Holmes Norton's Chief of Staff and Press Secretary, where she helped guide the District's budget and local legislation on Capitol Hill. Brazile was host/producer of A View From the Hill, a weekly radio show in the metropolitan DC and Baltimore area.
Donna Brazile
Tavis: A funny thing happened on the way to the Democratic nomination last night for anointed front-runner Howard Dean. The results in Iowa now ensure a much more interesting fight for the Democratic nomination.
Joining us to talk about the events of last night, and what lies ahead, is former Gore campaign manager Donna Brazile. She joins us tonight from Washington, just off the plane from Iowa. Donna, nice to see you.
Donna Brazile: It's good to see you, too, Tavis.
Tavis: So how cold is it in Iowa?
Brazile: It was zero degrees Fahrenheit, and I knew I was in trouble. I brought only one pair of long johns. So I'm glad to be back in Washington, D.C. where it's a very mild and balmy 30 degrees Fahrenheit.
Tavis: Well, it's not mild and balmy for Howard Dean these days. It is, in fact, rather cold for Howard Dean. Before I get to the Dean issue, let me just back up one second and ask you to explain for me, because we've all been watching all the analysis all day, but I'm still not altogether sure of how John Kerry pulled this off. I know what 'Comeback Kerry' did, but how did he do it? He wasn't supposed to do this.
Brazile: He did it the old-fashioned way. You know, Howard Dean has been focusing on these big-name endorsements. John Kerry went out there and got local endorsements. He also picked up a lot of state legislators, 42 of them. He pulled together a real sophisticated type of organization in all of those counties. He brought in people like Michael Hooley, someone who worked in the Gore campaign. Michael Hooley's probably one of the best ground organizers in the country. He also had John Norris, a former state party chairman, who understood just where all the undecideds live.
Look, this was a guy who decided to put all his eggs in the Iowa basket because he understood that in order to be credible in New Hampshire, he had to win in Iowa, and John Kerry pulled it off. But the guy that I was really impressed with last night was John Edwards. This guy was really operating on fumes. He had nothing on the ground, and yet after the Des Moines Register debate, he received the endorsement. And this guy was able to almost take John Kerry over in a couple of key counties.
Tavis: Well, the conventional wisdom was--I say was--uh, these days--the conventional wisdom was that Gephardt and Dean, while they were not number one and number 2 necessarily, had the operation, to your point, that it was going to take to win in Iowa. And the word was, the conventional wisdom was that Kerry and Edwards, while they had the momentum, they didn't have the operation that it takes in an interesting situation like the Iowa caucus to actually make it work for them, and yet they proved all of the pundits wrong.
Brazile: Well, you know, someone flipped the scripts yesterday, because normally in a state like Iowa, a caucus state, organization matters. And Dick Gephardt, with the tremendous backing of organized labor; Howard Dean, with his Internet virtual campaign was supposed to clean house.
What happened was the Gephardt forces were not able to really bring in new people. The Dean people were not able to identify old people or even new people. Howard Dean managed to win only 2 counties out of 99. Dick Gephardt did not win one county. Howard Dean and Dick Gephardt had a hard time even winning precincts where they had majority students or young people or a majority labor.
So this was a real tremendous effort on behalf of the Kerry campaign. They saw these 2 guys fighting each other, and you know what happened, Tavis. They just canceled each other out. People are sick and tired of that backbiting type of politics. They want a new level of political discussion in this day, and John Kerry and John Edwards really gave 'em what they asked for.
Tavis: So what does John Kerry have to do now? He's got the momentum. He goes into New Hampshire. Now he's going back into his neck of the woods, as it were. What does he have to do? Because just because one wins Iowa, as you well know, doesn't necessarily mean you're gonna win the nomination.
Brazile: That's correct, because New Hampshire Democrats like to put their own mark on a presidential candidate. They will not allow the Iowa results to rubber-stamp their approval. What they're looking for, of course, is what our Democrats were looking for--a Democratic leader, someone who will champion Democratic values, stand up for civil rights, equal rights, someone who will defend the party principles. And if John Kerry can go back in his backyard and prove to them that he's a new man, that he had a new awakening, and our John Kerry will be very strong in that--that state. Look, he has almost a 99% name recognition.
Wesley Clark, I believe, is in deep trouble. He's had the state to himself. He's put together a tremendous operation. But John Kerry is a scrappy street fighter, and he has people around him like the former Governor Gene Shaheen, who knows where all the bodies are buried. Look. Look what John Kerry has done. You got a John Norris, who know all the undersides, and you got Gene Shaheen, who, by the way, is one of the best organizers in the country as well. So I believe this is going to be a photo finish. This is good for the party. I don't believe we should anoint anyone overnight.
Tavis: But you--I'm sorry--but you're telling me, though, that with all the time and all the energy and all the effort that Wesley Clark--I mean, you mentioned Kerry put all his eggs in the Iowa basket. Clark has put all his eggs in the New Hampshire basket. If it worked for Kerry in Iowa, why can't puttin' all his baskets in New Hampshire work for Clark?
Brazile: I'll tell you why, quite frankly. General Clark has never been in a Democratic primary like the one you have right now. This is a guy who, as
you well know, just became a Democrat 3 months ago. He is now facing, you know, at least 2, if not 3, competitors who are hungry to take him apart, to scrutinize his record, to really go toe-to-toe with him. So, he's had the dance floor to himself. Now he better get ready to dance with some top Democrats. They got their dancing shoes on, and I believe that they're ready to come up to the Granite State and give Wesley Clark a run for his money and his organization.
Tavis: Speaking of the folk who are anxious to now take Wesley Clark apart, I wonder how much of the fact that Dean did not do what he was predicted to have done in Iowa has to do with the way that people tore into him. He became the front-runner, and everybody came after him. How much of that, if any--if at all, rather--speaks to how Dean did ultimately in Iowa, not nearly what we expected?
Brazile: Well, you know, Tavis, this is the first rule of politics, which is to know thyself. Howard Dean knew and understood back in the summer of 2003 that his opponents wanted to tear him apart. He didn't build a fire wall. Again, he put all these, you know, wonderful, credible people on his campaign, but they did not come out and defend him. When Al Sharpton gave him what I call a serious low blow, a below-the-belt hit, the man didn't even punch back. He didn't punch back. He waited a day and then, you know, after thinking about it--then he defended his record. Well, you know, in presidential politics one day's a long time. Wesley Clark is a fighter. He's a Vietnam veteran. He's a decorated hero just like John Kerry. If John Kerry hits him, he's gonna hit him back because he has surrogates. He has people around him that will defend his record and will put John Kerry on the defensive.
Tavis: So what does John Edwards have to do? As you mentioned earlier, he's the guy that surprised you the most--and I suspect he surprised most of us the most, given how he did in Iowa. But what does he have to do now to take this momentum out of Iowa, if you can call it that, into New Hampshire and survive, as it were, until he gets down into his neck of the woods, the South Carolina way?
Brazile: Hey, look, he's gonna watch General Clark and Senator Kerry duke it out. They already talking about who's the lieutenant versus who's the general. He's gonna come up the middle. He's gonna play both sides against the middle. He's gonna stay on his positive message. He's going to present himself as an alternative. He's gonna talk about--he's the only person that comes from a working family. Dick Gephardt's now out of the race, so he's gonna appeal to labor. He's going to appeal to those disaffected Democrats, and I believe that John Edwards' gonna be a sleeper in this race like he was in Iowa.
Tavis: All right, so we'll see what happens to Mr. Edwards and Mr. Kerry and Mr. Clark and Mr. Dean in Iowa. Gephardt, as you mentioned, is gone. 33 years in politics, he's retired. He's out of the game. Given that we're talking about Iowa and New Hampshire, what's going to happen when people of color finally get their say, since it ain't happening in Iowa and New Hampshire, respectfully?
Brazile: You know, the black vote is up for grabs, and now that Carol Moseley Braun has stepped out of the limelight, this is Al Sharpton's moment. This is his moment to really define himself as a serious advocate for African American issues and African American concerns. He can--and I reminded Al Sharpton last night. I said, "Reverend, I'm sorry. South Carolina's only one state on the East Coast that's holding a primary on February 3. You also have Delaware, and now that Dick Gephardt has left the race, you have Missouri, you know. So Al Sharpton can really go out there and pull some delegates on February 3.
He is now pulling together a good organization in South Carolina. Just hired somebody I had who ran the Louisiana operation for Al Gore in 2000, Roger Scott. He has good people around him. I think Al Sharpton is ready now to play the game the way it should be played. He can go after the black vote. But look, I do believe that the other Democratic candidates would make a great mistake if they do not compete with Al Sharpton for that black vote. Because if you don't turn black voters on in the winter of 2004, don't expect to turn us out in the fall of 2004.
Tavis: Got about a minute to go, Donna, right quick. Might this have been--about 45 seconds, actually. Might this have been a backlash to the Democratic establishment for trying to anoint somebody like Dean? Gore came out, Jimmy Carter got as close as you can get, Harkin, a number of other folk. Might this have been a rebuke to the Democratic Party? "Don't tell us who our guy's gonna be just like the Republican Party. You can't anoint nobody around here."
Brazile: You know, I think, Tavis, some of that happened yesterday. These voters want a fresh face, a fresh start, and they don't want to be told who to support. Ultimately, Al Gore knew the voters would decide who the nominee would be. I think Gore made the decision to get involved early. But you know what? You can't get the vote out from Nashville, Tennessee. Al Gore should have been walking those precincts, going to those--like Ted Kennedy. Did you see Ted Kennedy out there?
Tavis: Absolutely, yeah.
Brazile: And let me just tell you, as a Catholic, John Kerry captured every Catholic county along the Mississippi River. That speaks volumes.
Tavis: We will see what happens in the coming days, and we look forward to talking to you again about this, Donna. Thanks for your time.
Brazile: Thank you.
Tavis: Donna Brazile, I appreciate it.
We'll be right back with actor Gary Dourdan from 'CSI.' Stay with us.
Back to January 20, 2004