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Deepak Chopra explores spiritual consciousness, death, faith and coincidences.
 

Tavis: Dr. Deepak Chopra is the best-selling author of more than 35 books and founder of the Chopra Center for Well Being here in Southern California. His latest book is called 'The Spontaneous Fulfillment of Desire.' There you see the cover of the new book. Dr. Chopra, nice to see you.

Deepak Chopra: Thanks for having me.

Tavis: My pleasure, and I should really thank you for coming by because you were just telling me before we came on air here that you literally just landed from India. You were going to see your mother.

Chopra: My mother. And I was also doing some work.

Tavis: And how is your mother?

Chopra: She's doing OK. I mean, she's fragile and she's old, but she is very alert there, and she was watching the cricket matches between India and Australia and tallying the score and making bets with everyone, so she's OK.

Tavis: Making bets with everyone?

Chopra: Yeah, on who's going to win.

Tavis: Oh, yeah. You've been here a long time, and you've not been able to convince your mother to move this way.

Chopra: No, she doesn't like the lifestyle here at all.

Tavis: Yeah. I told some friends of mine just a couple of days ago that I was so excited because I had Dr. Deepak Chopra coming on the TV show, uh, and they said to me, "Isn't that the fuzzy-wuzzy guy?" And I said, "The fuzzy-wuzzy guy?" "Uh, the guy that does the metaphysical methodology stuff." And I raise that because I want to know how you respond to people who don't really know what it is you do, but are a little frightened, scared, unsure.

Chopra: Well, you know, I think they have the right to have their own opinions, and I usually don't react or respond, either to the good things I hear or the negative things I hear. But what I do, I explore consciousness in the same spirit that one explores biology or trigonometry or geometry or history. I think the spirit is a domain of awareness that you can scientifically explore the way you explore Antarctica or climb Mount Everest.

If something is real, it should be subject to the best of scientific validation. So if consciousness or spirit or God or divine intelligence is real, then you shouldn't have to rely on faith or belief. You don't believe in electricity. You know it exists because you can make use of it and see its effects. So, too, you don't have to believe in electromagnetism or gravity. And so I have always felt that belief is a cover-up for insecurity. All belief is a cover-up for insecurity. That's why the most fervent believers are the most radical fundamentalists that go to war and kill each other, because...they believe in God.

Tavis: See, I'm fascinated by that, because I have been a person of faith my entire life and I believe, personally, that faith has a role to play because there are certain things... There's a scripture that I'm sure you're very fond of that says very simply that faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For each of us, there are times in our lives when we are confronted with situations where there's no reason to believe that we're going to find our way out, there's no reason to believe that things are going to get better, and yet it is that faith that allows us to get through the situation. But yet you're telling me that my faith is misplaced?

Chopra: No, actually, what you've done--I'm glad you used the word faith and not the word belief. Faith is the ability to trust...and step into the unknown, to step into the luminous mystery of our existence. When you have faith, you tap into an inner intelligence which is intuitive. You tap into the part of intention, you tap into insight, you tap into creativity, you tap into meaning, purpose.

And in the asking of the question, 'Seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be answered to you,'--in the seeking of the question, because your brain is hard-wired to ask those questions--you know, no other animal says, "Where did I come from? Do I have a soul? Does God exist? What happens to me after I die?" The reason you're hard-wired to ask those questions is your brain is hard-wired to seek and find the answers.

So faith and belief are 2 different things. Faith is the ability to trust and leap into the unknown, to relinquish the past and to trust your inner intelligence, which is the ultimate supreme genius and mirrors the wisdom of the universe. Belief, on the other hand, is, you know, somebody told you something. It's very tribal and very primitive and very ancient, and just because something is ancient doesn't mean it works. We are the only animal in the world who kills our own kind in the name of God because we are fundamentalists in our approach and we approach it with the radical belief which sometimes defies everything we know in biology and astronomy, in evolution, in physics and chemistry.

Tavis: Since you've made the comparison a couple of times now, or the contrast between human beings and the other animals on the planet, let me ask you a very basic and fundamental question. What is it that makes the human spirit so uniquely different--not even better or worse--but just uniquely different from these animals that you're comparing us to?

Chopra: Free will. Free will. And choice. And, of course, imagination, because we can actually imagine the future based on experiences in the past. Creativity. No other animal has the kind of creativity that we have. Questioning. Doubt. Laughter. And the awareness of our death. We're the only species also that's so consciously aware that death is stalking us, that we are going to die one of these days.

Tavis: Let me jump in. What does that do for us, the fact that we are so much more aware of our death? What does that do, good or bad, for us as human beings?

Chopra: Well, I think, personally, to be aware that death is stalking me--every time I look back, it's closer--

Tavis: Ha ha ha!

Chopra: For me, that changes my priorities. It says what are the really meaningful things in my life? I used to be an emergency room physician, seeing people die all the time. Not one of them ever said, "I wish I'd spent more time at the office," you know, at the moment of dying. So if you're aware of your mortality right now, that's a unique opportunity for you to change your priorities and see what is the really most important thing in your life?

Tavis: And yet, so many people don't do that. They live in fear of that...of death creeping up on them.

Chopra: They never examined it, you know. If you really examine death and you find that place inside you which doesn't die, which is your soul or your spirit, then you overcome the fear of death. And ultimately, all other fear is the fear of death in disguise. Because the fear of the...relinquishing the known and stepping into the unknown. But if the unknown becomes known to you, then you don't have that fear.

Tavis: Is that the greatest challenge, though, to being comfortable with the fact that you are going to die some day?

Chopra: I think it's not only the greatest challenge, the greatest liberation. Without death, the world would be mummified, static, without rhythm, without music, and we'd all be doomed to eternal senility.

Tavis: This new book, 'The Spontaneous Fulfillment of Desire: Harnessing the Infinite Power of Coincidence,' that's a long and fancy title which means what?

Chopra: It means what people say--"I was lucky. I happened to be in the right place at the right time. God was on my side. It seemed like somebody was eavesdropping on what I was saying and listening and responding to me. My wishes came true"--all of those things. Coincidence means coinciding. In the universe, everything is synchronistically coinciding with everything else. How does a human body think thoughts, play a piano, kill germs, remove toxins, and make a baby all at the same time? And whilst it's doing that, it tracks the movement of planets and stars because your biological rhythms are the symphonies of the cosmos. So you are inextricably woven into the patterns of creativity and intelligence that permeate the whole cosmos. And when your body and mind is synchronistically dancing with the body-mind of the universe, then every thought that you have becomes intensely powerful and is synchronistically orchestrated into fulfillment.

Tavis: I assume, though, that must not happen by coincidence because if it happened by coincidence, you wouldn't have written a book about it, so there must be some way we actually get to that place that you must be telling us how to get to.

Chopra: Yes, but don't underestimate what a coincidence is. A coincidence is the opportunity to glimpse the creative mind of the universe. It's an anonymous gift from God. It always has some meaning.

Tavis: Hmm. Where--I guess what I want to ask is, how it is that we find ourselves, though, in that magic place, if you will? I mean, I can't imagine, again, that it just happens, because if it just happened, this wouldn't have been written. It must--

Chopra: No, this book is about how do you consciously begin to orchestrate it.

Tavis: Precisely.

Chopra: So I've gotten 7 very specific ways here. The first is you move from your ego to your soul or spirit level. The second is through nurturing relationship. The third is by watching your internal dialogue. The fourth is by harnessing the power of intention. The fifth is by embracing the masculine and the feminine in your own being. The sixth is by going beyond emotional melodrama and emotional turbulence. And the seventh is actually to be alert to what I call "the conspiracy of improbabilities."

Tavis: Ha ha ha ha! Let me pick number 6 in the minute or so that I have left here. Let me pick number 6 and ask you how it is that we get people to move beyond their emotionability--emotionality, rather--because I sense, and maybe it's just me, but certainly after 9/11, I just sensed that we live in a world where people are much more emotional now about everything than they've ever been.

Chopra: You learn to take responsibility for your emotions, and responsibility means, um, the ability to respond--creatively. You learn to witness your emotions. They are feelings and sensations in your body. You learn to define them and understand what they are. You ask yourself, "What am I observing? What am I feeling? What's the need here? How do I fulfill the need?" You learn to express them both to yourself and to others. You learn to share them. You learn to release them, hopefully through a meaningful ritual.

And then you learn to move on. Otherwise, remembered pain always will manifest as anger and hostility. The anticipation of pain again in the future will manifest as fear, the redirection of pain back at yourself as guilt. And the depletion of energy that happens with all of the above is depression. So it's very important to learn how to go beyond emotional turbulence.

Tavis: I've just a few seconds left with you. If there were one obstacle you could put your finger on that we as human beings have in realizing the essence of our spirit, what is that one obstacle?

Chopra: It's all the beliefs that we've been indoctrinated with. The sum total of a person is limitation. Go beyond the idea that there are any limitations. Recognize that you're a field of infinite possibilities. And that's your soul, your spirit.

Tavis: Thanks for stopping by from the airport on your way home. Nice to see you. Pleasure to meet you.

Chopra: Thank you. It's a pleasure for me, too.

Tavis: That's our show for tonight. As always, you can catch me tomorrow on the radio show on NPR, National Public Radio. And we'll see you back here next time on PBS. Thanks for watching.

Good night from Los Angeles. And keep the faith.