E-mail a friendArsenio Hall
airdate February 13, 2004
Few would have guessed that Arsenio Hall, a preacher's kid from Cleveland, would find success in Hollywood. Hall began his career doing stand-up, but his big break came when he took over The Late Show for 13 weeks. It morphed into a 6-year stint as host of the Emmy Award-winning The Arsenio Hall Show. He's back on the tube as host of the revamped Star Search.
Arsenio Hall
Tavis: Arsenio Hall shook up late-night television over a decade ago with his groundbreaking syndicated show and made a whole lot of money, too. Now he's searching for stars on CBS as host of the hit talent showcase 'Star Search.' The show airs Saturday nights at There he is, and here he is. Hey, nice to see you.
Arsenio Hall: Thank you, sir.
Tavis: This is the dream come true for me, man. I get a chance to interview you on a TV show. We've done the radio thing.
Arsenio: Yeah, you're right.
Tavis: But for the last 6-7 weeks I've been on the air, I've been dying to talk to one person. I wanted to interview you on my set, and so I'm glad you're here.
Arsenio: It's a dream come true for me to know that you're doing this and that we still have a talking head or a black presence in the business, because there are things that you will do that no one else will do and there are ways that you'll do it no one else will do it. And this is important, but I won't go into that because it will turn into a butt-kissing session.
Tavis: Ha ha ha ha! I don't mind that. You can give me all the love you want.
Arsenio: Well, it's nice that you speak the language. It's nice that English is your first language. That's important.
Tavis: That helps, doesn't it?
Arsenio: Yes, it does.
Tavis: OK, you can stop now. My first question, every time I see you is always the same. I don't even got to ask it, so just go ahead and answer it.
Arsenio: My mom? She's cool.
Tavis: How's your mama doing?
Arsenio: Yeah, mama doin' good. See, Leno don't ever ask me about my mama.
Tavis: See, it's a black thing, isn't it? 'How your mama durrin'?'
Arsenio: Yeah, yeah. We either say good things about mama or bad things about mama. 'Your mama is so black that she went to night school and they counted her absent.'
Tavis: Ha ha ha ha! I can respond to that, but I'm not gonna even go there.
Arsenio: Your moms--you're a P.K.?
Tavis: I am a preacher's kid. So are you. We're both P.K.s, preachers' kids. What was that experience like for you? 'Cause I still need some help, I need to go talk to somebody about my experience. Go to somebody's couch, talk about this.
Arsenio: Did it put pressure on you? I always felt like there was a pressure on me to not do things, like--like when you want to shoot somebody, you know? It's like, you know, you're a preacher's son. You gotta handle that different. I always felt like, even in church, you know, you didn't want to get in trouble because you're a preacher's kid. And so I wasn't good because I wanted to be. I was good because I had that pressure. I was like the--the anti-Jenna Bush. It was like I knew that because of dad I had to do it right. Jenna clearly...
Tavis: My experience was this: because I grew up in a Pentecostal, holiness, speaking-in-tongues tradition--the charismatic thing--there's a whole lot of stuff, as you know, that we couldn't do to begin with. But I felt like there were certain things that I really wanted to experience. You know, there were certain folk in the faith that didn't think that being a lawyer was honorable, that being a doctor was honorable, and I was like 'Y'all limiting my future.' So I still--you know, I still have an abiding faith and I still go to my church, I'm very much involved here in L.A., but it was limiting for me in that way, but fortunately I was able to work it out.
Arsenio: I remember thinking that I had to wait until I was married to have sex.
Tavis: You were supposed to, though.
Arsenio: Yeah, and you know--
Tavis: And you didn't.
Arsenio: There was that pressure. There was that pressure, though, because, like, everybody else is doing their thing and you're like, God, I'm not supposed to do that, but finally I was a bad sinner. I had to jump up and down.
Tavis: We have that in common, so we're gonna leave that alone, 'cause your mama and my mama are watching, so we ain't gonna talk about that.
Arsenio: And my father's watching, too.
Tavis: Yeah, all right. We--I was surprised today 'cause I didn't realize that this year makes 10 years since the show, your show--all I say is the show. You say the show, you know I'm talking about your show--that the show went off the air 10 years ago this year.
Arsenio: Yeah, and, um, I look back...
Tavis: Are you over it now?
Arsenio: Yeah, I think I am. I think I am.
Tavis: Ha ha ha! It's been 10 years actually, now.
Arsenio: Business has changed so much, and in retrospect I can look and say I made the right move. You know, at that time... You know the story at that time: My agent was Michael Ovitz, from CAA, the superagent. He was also Letterman's agent.
Tavis: He was everybody's agent.
Arsenio: Yeah, he was. If you were somebody, he was your agent. And he was making a deal for Letterman at that time to go to CBS, get a lot of money, and become the number-one piece of business for CBS. And I don't want to get too into the business of television, but you know how syndication works and going to NATPE and all that kind of stuff. My biggest affiliate was CBS, even though I was Channel 13 in L.A. If you go to Chicago, my power base was CBS affiliates--
Tavis: 'Cause CBS had no late-night programming.
Arsenio: Right. They had nothing, I was it. So me and Paramount would sell our show to CBS and when Letterman made that move, Michael Ovitz said 'This is the time to get out, I think, unless you want to try to find smaller stations like 13 or like 9 around the country, and create a power base with those.' But, as you know, if you could have one network that is the majority of your syndicated stations, you're--and all of those, you're much better off. You're much more powerful, and I chose, at that time, to make the move. I said, OK. Let's send a letter of resignation to Harry McCluggage, and in my mind, 'cause it ain't all a wonderful fairy tale, I was like, and what I'll do is I'll go do movies.
Tavis: Right.
Arsenio: And, um, I think probably the biggest mistake was--the second biggest mistake I've ever made.
Tavis: I was about to ask that. You set me up to ask you the biggest one.
Arsenio: The first biggest mistake is always a woman, but--but--
Tavis: It always is.
Arsenio: We'll talk about that during commercial. The second biggest mistake probably was turning down a movie with Martin Lawrence called 'Bad Boys,' because I thought I needed a vacation.
Tavis: I'm not one of those people that typically says 'I told you so,' but that was a bad move.
Arsenio: It was awful.
Tavis: 'Bad Boys.' Bad move.
Arsenio: It was like somebody said, 'Would you like to be Moses in ‘Ten Commandments'?' And you said, 'I'm gonna be in Hawaii.' But you know what? Everything happens for a reason. I really don't believe anything's a mistake, even though you can look at things and go, oh, gosh. But the bottom line is things didn't necessarily go for me exactly as I wanted them to go after leaving the show. And you do look back and say, was it a mistake? But you know what? Nothing's a mistake. Nothing's a mistake, and I came to this town--I got into show business so that I didn't have to do the same thing for the rest of my life.
Tavis: Well, I'll tell you what's not a mistake, and since you mentioned the business of television, and, like you, I don't want to go too deep and have this inside Hollywood conversation. But one point if I might, one of the things that you did absolutely right that I modeled myself on vis-a-vis you and Oprah and a few other people. Even though Oprah didn't start this way, it is so important, I have learned, to own what you do. I'm grateful to PBS for the opportunity to be on here every night. But I would not have come on PBS or anywhere else in this point in my career if I could not have some leverage, some control over the product, 'cause I think I got a pretty good idea about what I know how to do, and I know how to do it well. At least I'm getting better at it every day, but I got--I got an idea about how I want to try this thing. You did that, and talk to me about how important it was for you, not just to have control at the end, for you to send a letter to say, 'I'm getting out of the game,' but for you to have control from the very beginning as well.
Arsenio: Well, first of all, the creativity is vital. Like, I enjoyed writing my theme song. I remember to this day Quincy Jones--he schooled me, for the most part. Quincy Jones called me and he said, 'Don't forget to write your theme song. That's how Paul Anka got rich.' And I'm like, 'What?' He says, 'Everything--stay--I know you're making decisions on guests and set design, but, you know, write your theme song, too.'
Tavis: And if I know Q, he offered to help, didn't he? 'If you need a little help...'
Arsenio: But you know what?
Tavis: For a small fee.
Arsenio: He gave me an unselfish bit of help that I'll never forget. He thought I would just blow him off, right? The next day in a package was a little Casio piano, and he knew I'd been in a marching band in high school. He knew I knew a little bit about music, and he said, 'I meant what I said. Write your theme song.' It was a little Casio keyboard. I wrote the melody out, and registered it. Called it 'Hall or Nothing,' and got paid every time it played. Still get paid when it's played when I walk out on something. That was very important.
Tavis: That's why I didn't play it tonight--because I couldn't afford to pay you. You notice it was not played tonight.
Arsenio:
Tavis: Broke Negro, and they offered you $2 million.
Arsenio: Yeah. They offered me $2 million, but they said, 'You can't own it. You know, you can't own the show, man, but we'll give you $2 million.' And I was like, I'm gonna hold out, because owning a piece of what I do is more important than this immediate money. And, obviously, the downside is, if the show was a failure, or it didn't work in some way, I would have been mad that I didn't take that 2 million.
Tavis: My guy says a percentage of something is better than all of nothing.
Arsenio: Yeah, yeah. That's actually what I wanted to say, but I had a brain fart, and--and couldn't remember what the cliche was, but that's what I said. That's what I said, and so I held out and eventually went to Paramount and took less of a base salary, but owned the show. And when it was a successful show, I had an escalating scale that each year it went up as to how much I owned. Starting with, like, in the 40% area. They ain't gonna let you own the whole thing, but I owned a piece that increased every year, and the popularity of the show increased every year, and, um, you know--
Tavis: I'm glad we talked about this, 'cause I think a lot of folk who want to get in this business don't understand how this business works. You know, nice little business lesson every now and then.
Arsenio: And by the way, it's changed. When I say it's changed, one of the ways it's changed... You know how the music business has changed? They don't want to let you have too much anymore. Shows like 'Oprah' on a larger level, shows like mine... Um, what happened to Seinfeld at the end, what happened to Reiser at the end... People start to change it to make sure the artist doesn't own as much, doesn't get as much. They look at these lessons where they blew it. And they change how they deal with young, new talent.
Tavis: They ain't stuck on stupid.
Arsenio: Right. Exactly. They just idle for a minute, but you know, then they vroom.
Arsenio: You know what? That's another part about being in the creative process. That movie came about in the same way. Eddie and I held out for the ability to write it. Because they wanted to obviously take the idea--Eddie came up with the idea--we pitched it, and they said, 'We'll put some writers on it.' And Eddie said, 'No, no. We want to be involved. Because you're not gonna get authentic Jheri curl juice jokes...
Tavis: Yeah.
Arsenio: ...unless you have us involved. So, uh, they basically brought--
Tavis: Or get off the island.
Arsenio: There you go. 'Cause all my preaching sermons, they just let me ad lib.
Tavis: Like sexual chocolate.
Arsenio: Yeah. All that stuff. And Eddie deciding that his character would be someplace between, like, Rick James and Jackie Wilson. As a matter of fact, they brought in Blaustein and Sheffield, 2 great writers that Eddie worked with before. And obviously, we sat in a hotel room for hours on end, the Mayflower Hotel in New York City. And we would sometimes just do characters for 'em. Like he would sit and I would sit, and it's, 'Aw, you don't know no Muhammad Ali.' And we would just play. And these guys in there would just--
Tavis: Mama named him Clay.
Arsenio: Yeah.
Both: I'm gonna call him Clay.
Arsenio: And the next day we spent typing and listening to a tape recorder. And we actually created that movie in that way in a very short period of time. We got very, very lucky, 'cause it could have been a piece of garbage.
Tavis: Yeah. It was amazing. Now you're doing the 'Star Search' thing in prime time. You like being back. It's not every night, it ain't a talk show, but on your terms, you get a chance to come on every week and do what you enjoy doing, I suspect, which is showcasing talent. Same thing you did on the 'Arsenio Hall Show.'
Arsenio: Yeah. I love acting. I love hosting. I love making people smile and making people laugh. I'll tell you who smiles the most. No one smiles more than a kid that's getting his shot, that's receiving opportunity. That's really what I've always done with the talk show--giving opportunity to people that might not get it elsewhere. And that's what 'Star Search' is doing. To this moment, I can remember the look in Lil' Bow Wow's eyes when I said, 'I'm gonna put you on tonight.' I was afraid somebody was gonna scoop him up. I'll tell you how I met Lil' Bow Wow. Suge Knight calls my office. Yeah. I thought I was in trouble.
Tavis: You were scared?
Arsenio: Yeah. Yeah. It's like--they say, 'Suge on line 2.' I know I didn't do nothin'. But 'Suge on line 2' make a brother's--just one drop of pee come out. Just one drop, so-- You can edit that out. But he calls me and says, 'I need to come over and talk to you.' And I'm like, 'I...I...'
Tavis: I ain't got nothin' to say.
Arsenio: Yeah. He came over and he had a kid with him, and I thought it was his son, and it wasn't. This was a nice little kid. It could be Suge's son. And he said, 'This is Bow Wow. He from your part of the country, man. He from Ohio.' I said, 'Oh.' He said, 'Bow Wow, rap for him.' And he had Bow Wow rap. I'm talking about something this size, man.
Tavis: When Suge says rap, no matter what size you are, you better start rapping.
Arsenio: He knew. Even if he didn't know how, you know, it's time to rap. And he went into a freestyle rap, and I'm watching him, and I say, 'I'll put you on tonight.' I went short, left like a minute and a half at the end of the show, and said, 'Bring the kid out. Come here, Bow Wow.' He came out and he had twisties and whatever, and he went and did his thing. And that's what made my show fun. The fact that I had the ability to say I want to do a girl I met at The Ivy with Tommy Mottola last night, a little skinny girl, 'the young and the breastless,' I called her back then. Yeah, she was a little skinny girl, and it was Mariah Carey. I'm getting old. I sound like Casey Kasem. Her name was Mariah Carey.
Tavis: And now she ain't neither young or breastless. That's another issue. Go ahead.
Arsenio: But you know that opportunity, Babyface call you and say, 'You trust me, right?' And I'm, like, 'Yeah. You've always come through for me.' He said, 'I got 3 girls I want you to meet.' It was TLC. Every time he called me, he would say, 'You trust me, right?' Actually, um,
Tavis: Pebbles.
Arsenio: Pebbles. It was him and Pebbles on the phone. And next time he called me, he said, 'I want to do a duet on the show.' And I said, 'OK. Who you gonna do it with?' And he said, 'Young girl named Toni Braxton.' That kind of opportunity for me to be able to do that was what that show was about. But that's 'Star Search.'
Tavis: But not just entertainers though. You did the same thing--and this is an election year, obviously--you did the same thing for Bill Clinton. I mean, now it is commonplace for presidential candidates to get on late-night TV to do something unusual. John Kerry driving on the 'Tonight' show, on the Harley, or Howard Dean shows up on 'David Letterman' after he's tanked and trying to rebound, to do the top 10 list, but you really started that with Clinton and the saxophone thing.
Arsenio: And you know, I would like to say, like, you know, I had a calculated plan in my mind if I were to change late-night, politically speaking. But the best things in life come from the blind side. I put an offer out to Clinton just like I put an offer out to De Niro, thinking he would say no 'cause he said no to everybody else. And he said yes, so I learned throw it up against the wall. It's not gonna hurt your feelings. All they can do is say no.
I even said to Bill Clinton, because I knew he would say no, the offer was ridiculous... I said, 'I want him to come on and I heard he plays saxophone. I want him to play with the band and, like, wear my sunglasses and my tie and rock it,' you know, and they called back and they said, 'He said yes,' and I'm sayin', like, 'He said he'd come on?' They said, 'No, he'll wear the sunglasses, he'll play, and he'll wear your tie.' He wore my tie, my sunglasses--a pair of sunglasses--and he played that night.
No matter what it is, whether it's a booking dream, or a bigger dream in the world, don't be afraid to ask for what you dream of.
Tavis: So the moral of the story here is, yeah, if the more ridiculous my offer, the better off I am? Which camera am I on? Janet Jackson, if you watchin' right now, I'd like for you to show up tomorrow night and--
Arsenio: And let 'em both pop out! You know, bam! bam!
Tavis: All right, so, speaking of Janet, let's go there, let's go there. We always do this. Let me throw some names at you and tell me what your thoughts are. So, everybody saw it. What do you make of the Janet Jackson situation?
Arsenio: Um, well, you know--
Tavis: And by the way, for those watching, I promise, this is Friday night. This will be my last Janet Jackson question. Arsenio Hall?
Arsenio: OK, obviously, I'm a huge Janet Jackson fan, but in a business sense, that was a mistake. You go to a certain arena, and you play by the rules of that arena. This is prime time, this is a football game. There are--this has nothing to do with what I like. I love to see Janet's nipples. That's me, though. There's an American someplace in Grand Forks, North Dakota, that deserves the right to get what they tuned in for. It's not an HBO special.
Tavis: It's not MTV. Produced by MTV. But that's not on MTV.
Arsenio: And we'll get into that, too, because...
Tavis: You think they knew?
Arsenio: I think, yes, they knew. I'm positive.
Tavis: They said they didn't.
Arsenio: Yeah, but I heard about a surprise 3 days before the Super Bowl, a surprise that would shock everyone. They didn't hear about it? But anyway...
Tavis: You are connected though, man. You really are connected.
Arsenio: And CBS and MTV are Viacom? OK, OK, OK, maybe they should hang out in the barbershop.
Tavis: Maybe so. Ha ha ha ha!
Arsenio: But the bottom line is I knew it was gonna happen.
But anyway, when people tune in, they deserve to get what they bargain for. Let that happen in an arena that's more appropriate because--and you know what? By the way, I was watching that show with my son. I'm sittin' watching the Super Bowl. We're watchin' football.
Tavis: You do this?
Arsenio: Well, you know, I didn't. I was actually so shocked because when I saw it, Tavis, I didn't realize that I had seen it. It was like, did that happen?
Tavis: Was that what I thought it was?
Arsenio: You know what my son said? My son looked at me and said, 'Dad, did you see that?' Because he knew something was wrong, too, you know?
But I'll tell you the problem, the two problems that no one addresses, and this bothers me. The one problem is the fact that a man ripped away the area that her breast eventually was exposed from. That visual image for a young black boy or girl is a problem for me. That's what no one talks about. It's not the breast. It's teaching a kid--I try to teach my kid respect. I try to teach my kid, even for a hug, to say, 'Can I hug you?' That's how I was taught to deal with a lady. The visual image of having a man do this to a woman during the Super Bowl, is a problem for me.
The other problem is Beyoncé at the top of the show, the top of the broadcast, really made me proud as a black man. She destroyed, in a positive way, that song. I mean, she ripped it. Not since Whitney Houston has someone done it so brilliantly, and it makes you have chicken skin, you know? No one talked about it. And the message we send is that when you do something good, you're ignored, and when you do something bad and break the rules, you are on the cover of everything. I just want to say, 'Beyoncé, we love you and we're proud of you and I wish someone could get attention for doing good things as well as breaking the rules and doing something they shouldn't.'
Tavis: That's a lot of wisdom. And I suspect part of that wisdom comes from the fact that within a year from now, you will be 50, and I can't believe it.
Arsenio: You worse than 'Entertainment Tonight.' Sometimes I want to shoot the TV out. You watchin' 'Entertainment Tonight' on your birthday--boom!
Tavis: Well, first of all, I can't believe it 'cause you don't look it and your energy is as high as ever, but there's nothing about you that says 50. You're really starting to make me feel better about--I turn 40 this year. I'm scared already, but you makin' me feel really good about the fact that 50 ain't so bad.
Arsenio: Yeah. Uh, next question.
Tavis: That's the shortest Arsenio answer I've ever heard. So, how 'bout that jersey you got on?
Arsenio: Well, you know it's Magic Johnson Week all over the world, you know, and--
Tavis: This is All-Star weekend here in L.A.
Arsenio: Yeah, and--and they're revealing, um, a big statue of Magic at Staples Center. Yeah.
Tavis: Earlier this week?
Arsenio: And, oh, did I miss it?
Tavis: No, it's fine.
Arsenio: Oh, OK, 'cause I thought it was tomorrow.
Tavis: I was there.
Arsenio: But all this week, they've been doing a lot of Magic Johnson stuff, and I'm proud of him 'cause, you know--
Tavis: Speaking of Magic, he came on your show that night after making the announcement. Was that not your most--I know he's your friend, and I know it was a serious issue, obviously--but I remember watching your show that night. He had made the announcement earlier that day, came on the show--your show--that night to talk about it. Was that a depressing show?
Arsenio: Yeah, it was a very... It's the show you wish you hadn't have had to do, you know? Magic called me that morning, and he said, 'I need to come on because this thing is leaking faster than I can plug up the holes.' I'll never forget the morning. I was holding the phone in tears because I knew what was going on, but I knew now it was time to face America and face the music.
And my guests that night were Tom and Roseanne. I called Roseanne and I told her. I didn't tell her what because that was up to Magic and his camp to let it all spread. I said, 'I need you to come tonight, but be prepared to not get on.' And I said, 'Trust me, Roseanne.' They both said, 'Cool.' They knew something was up. They came and, of course, an hour later--I don't care if you were in a department store or in your taxicab, you were watching or hearing about Magic Johnson. They came, they stood on the side, and they said, 'If we get on, fine. If we don't get on, fine.' 'Cause they loved Magic, too.
And it was one of those interviews that was taken off late-night and put in prime time in some markets, but, um, it was still one that I wish I didn't have to do. The most painful show of my life.
If you remember, I was supposed to come out and do the top-of-the-show talk, and I didn't. Um, I had Johnny Gill, who's like my little brother, in back, and I said, 'Look, man, I'm gonna give you a signal. If I give you the signal, I want to do a song in the top.' Because I knew what was gonna happen. It was--it was--I couldn't talk, man. By the time it was time to do the interview, I was ready. But that's why Johnny ended up singing at the top of that show.
Tavis: I got about 30 seconds left, so I know you don't want to talk about turning...ahem--this year, but, uh, what's on the other side for you?
Arsenio: Any time your age is close to the speed limit that we abide by on the freeway, it's just frightening. I'm sorry, what was the question? Ooh, I hate 50.
Tavis: Never mind. I'll just take this 30 seconds and say good-bye. First of all, I am honored again to have had you come on the show. You're welcome here any time, and thank you for the example of how to do this and how to do it well. I really appreciate you coming by to see me.
Arsenio: Well, thank you, man. Thank you. I really appreciate it. Tavis Smiley, ladies and gentlemen.
Tavis: Don't forget to catch 'Star Search' Saturday nights at 8:00 on CBS. Is that nice? We call that a shameless plug for our friend Arsenio Hall. That's 'Star Search' Saturday nights on CBS at 8:00. 'Star Search' Saturday nights on CBS at 8:00. That's our show for tonight...
Arsenio: Watch it. Then go out.
Tavis: As always, catch me on NPR. I'll see you back here next time on PBS. Until then, good night. Keep the faith.
Arsenio: As you're dressing to go party, watch 'Star Search.' Do your eyelashes, pick out your 'fro, then you go out.
Back to February 13, 2004