E-mail a friendSen. John Kerry
original airdate May 6, 2004
In his '04 presidential bid, Democratic presidential candidate and junior Massachusetts Senator John Kerry was stereotyped as a liberal, and his initial support of the resolution on Iraq wasn't popular among some in his Party. Since his defeat, Kerry has focused his efforts on several Senate committees, including Foreign Relations and Finance. He's also established a political action committee, Keeping America's Promise. In polls during '05, Kerry is a leading candidate for his Party's '08 nomination.
Watch Sen. Kerry's appearance on Tavis Smiley.
Sen. John Kerry
Tavis: Welcome back. I can spend a great deal of time trying to introduce this guy. I think at this point, he really needs no introduction. Ladies and gentlemen, John Kerry.
Senator John Kerry: Great to be here.
Tavis: Nice to see you. How are you? Glad to have you on. I wrote some things down on these blue cards, which I typically don't use, 'cause I want to get some of these quotes right and give you a chance to respond to a number of things in the news about you of late. On Monday, as you well know, there was an op-ed piece in the 'Wall Street Journal' by John O'Neill--
Tavis: A Vietnam veteran, a Swiftboat commander--I hear the chuckle already--a Vietnam veteran, Swiftboat commander who actually followed you in command of your 6-man boat, the 'PCF-94.' In this piece in Monday's 'Wall Street Journal,' uh, Mr. O'Neill writes, and I quote, 'Today, America is engaged in a new war against the militant Islamist terrorists who attacked us on our own soil. Reasonable people may differ about how best to proceed, but I'm sure of one thing...John Kerry is the wrong man to put in charge.' Close quote. Your reaction?
Kerry: Politics. He did the work for Richard Nixon back in the 1970s, and now the Bush administration is trying to use people to discredit me. I'm proud of what I did fighting for my country. I'm proud of what I did to stand up against Richard Nixon and the war when I came home to America, and I'm very proud of what I did fighting for veterans, particularly, I might add, for minority veterans in America who really got the short end of the stick. I mean, when they came back from Vietnam, people were just shoved aside. They didn't get the V.A. benefits that others had gotten. The V.A. hospitals were underfunded. The casualties in Vietnam, in proportion to the population of America, were excessively Hispanic and African American, and I pointed these things out. Some people don't like that kind of a fight. I'm proud of that fight. I think I can fight a more effective war on terror than George Bush is. I think what's happened in Iraq has put our troops at greater risk, and it has cost the American taxpayer billions of dollars beyond what it should have to the exclusion of our schools, health care, creation of jobs, and cleaning up the environment in communities. Tavis, I must tell you, I expect to be ruthlessly attacked by these guys because that's what they do. They did it to John McCain, a prisoner of war in Vietnam. They attacked him ruthlessly in South Carolina. They attacked Max Cleland, who lost 3 limbs in Vietnam. They attacked and challenged his patriotism. But you know what? Americans want a leader who can put people back to work, make America fair, give people health care, fix our schools. They can't talk about it. I will. That's what this race is about.
Tavis: Let me be honest with you and tell you that--obviously, I am not you, so I can't imagine how this makes you feel, but I want to know. Because as a voter who's watching this campaign and intimately involved in it every day covering it and talking about it, I am stunned and struck by the fact that one who has a war record that is unquestioned in terms of his heroism--his heroism and his bravery--you got the medals to prove that. There's no debate about that. But I'm wondering how it is that a guy who has the record that you have has that record turned on him? Are these guys that good? Are the American voters that, uh--that stupid? I mean, how does a war record get turned on a guy?
Kerry: I don't think it is turned. I think they've helped America know what I did and accomplished in Vietnam, and the fact is all of America knows that Carl Rove, Dick Cheney, George Bush and company, when they had a chance to go and fight and serve their country, they decided to choose other things. I think this fight is about other things. You know, 25% of the kids in Harlem have asthma today. The rate of HIV among African Americans is 11 times greater than it is among whites. Unemployment among blacks in America is twice what it is among whites. 50 years after 'Brown vs. Board of Education,' we still have a separate and unequal school system in America. This president doesn't want to talk about those things because he's broken the promise on jobs, broken the promise on the deficit, broken the promise on "no child left behind," has no health care plan, is going backwards on the environment, backwards on civil rights, backwards on affirmative action, and I think it's time for people to stand up and fight back and really reclaim our democracy, Tavis. They're fighting to personally attack me because they don't have anything to show for 4 years of their administration.
Tavis: I want to come back to these attacks because you said you expected--and I hear there's another book dropping next week where they unleash a war on you next week--a war of words against you. I want to get to that book in just a second before it hits and get your thoughts about it in advance. Before I do that, though, you said a mouthful here a moment ago. Let me pick one thing out of what you just said. You mentioned 'Brown v. Board.' I'd be remiss to not ask you, 50 years after 'Brown v. Board,' I think we all agree--left, right, black, white, Republican, Democrat--everybody agrees there is an unfinished agenda to 'Brown v. Board.' The question is what is that unfinished agenda? How do we accomplish it? As John Kerry sees it, what is the unfinished agenda of 'Brown v. Board' 50 years later?
Kerry: Well, I disagree that the Republicans believe there's an unfinished agenda. I think the Republicans are happy to do vouchers and happy to do charters--
Tavis: That's the agenda for them.
Kerry: But that's not the unfinished agenda 'Brown'--oh, I see what you're saying. Well, you could claim that going the opposite direction is the agenda, but I think it's not the separate and unequal that bothers them. It's the public school system that bothers them. And they are happy to attack it in any way that they can, so they come up with a reform effort that they don't fund, which is a predicate for failure. And then they can turn around and lash out at the systems. I think it's wrong. I think that unless you give teachers the resources they need, unless you go to inner-city schools and provide them with the ability to keep their doors open into the evening to give individual kids the kind of help that they need to be able to raise the standards, this is going to continue to get worse. And the president, by $26 billion, has unfunded his own legislation called "No Child Left Behind." He's willing to leave millions of children behind. I'm not. I want to roll back George Bush's unfair tax cut for the wealthiest Americans and invest in health care, education, and jobs.
Tavis: Let me get to these attacks. There's a reporter by the name of Bill Salmon--a reporter for the 'Washington Times' who has written a book, and I am told this book hits next week. It has quotes, interviews, on-the-record conversations with 2 guys I'm sure you've heard of--Carl Rove and Andy Card, 2 of Mr. Bush's top advisors--and I'm told that the gloves come off in this book next week. What, then, do you make of these personal attacks--"the politics of personal destruction" as somebody called it--and those attacks so early in the campaign? Are they trying to finish you off, or are they that afraid of you? Which one?
Kerry: They're afraid. They're desperate. Never in the history of presidential politics has any president incumbent spent $70 million in 70 weeks to destroy a candidate of the other Party before they're even nominated. This is the earliest attack by an incumbent president in history in America. And what is it? It's all negative, Tavis. All they can do is attack. They don't have a vision for the country 'cause they've had 4 years to put that vision in place, and they've gone backwards. 4 million more people don't have health care today than when President Bush became president. 2.8 million more Americans don't have jobs today than when he became president. We've lost 2.8 million jobs. This is the worst jobs record since Herbert Hoover was president of the United States. On Martin Luther King's birthday, this president attacked Affirmative Action in the Michigan case. A year later, not having learned anything from that, he appoints Judge Pickering to the bench. I mean, these guys, I think, are gonna attack me--this book is part of the right-wing attack machine. I think Americans want a positive vision for our country. I'm gonna put America back to work. I'm gonna make the workplace fair again so people working a 40-hour work week can actually earn more money. I'm gonna help make our tax code fair. Enough of these tax breaks that encourage companies to go overseas at the expense of Americans. I'm gonna fund education by rolling back George Bush's tax cut, and I have a health care plan to provide health care to all Americans. And I want people to come out and vote and take a stake in this race because this is the most important election of our lifetime.
Tavis: There are some who suggest, with all due respect to your ideas and to your voting record and to your heroism, that if John Kerry were really the man, there's no way that--the argument goes this way: there's no way that things are gonna get worse for George W. Bush between now and November. The only way things get worse for this guy is if we get hit by another terrorist organization, by Al Qaeda, on American soil. If that doesn't happen, Senator, it ain't gettin' no worse. All these books coming out about the guy, the drama over the 9/11 Commission and his White House not wanting to testify, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The point is it ain't gettin' no worse for this guy. If John Kerry can't pick up in the polls now, when things are as bad as they can get for George Bush, how are you gonna win this thing, and especially if he finds Bin Laden between now and November? How you gonna win?
Kerry: Tavis, it is picking up. Right now the polls are showing we've increased, number one.
Tavis: But at best you're even in most of these polls.
Kerry: No, no, no. We have, actually. The last poll I saw, we were ahead.
Tavis: Ok.
Kerry: Secondly, don't worry about the polls right now. Polls right now don't matter.
Tavis: Too early?
Kerry: It is too early, number one. A lot of Americans aren't focused on the race. A lot of Americans don't know who I am yet. That's why the Republicans have spent so much money attacking me early, 'cause they wanna try to tell America who I am. But the fact is Americans are smarter than the Republicans think. And they're waiting. They wanna judge me, they're gonna listen to me, they wanna ask me questions, they wanna hear what I'm gonna do for the country. And I believe as they learn that, and as they learn more about me, that they'll see that I can put America back on track. George Bush is leading this country in the wrong direction. I'm gonna lead it in the right direction. I'm gonna make it fair, put people back to work, provide health care, roll back George Bush's unfair tax cut. And that's what they don't like. They've spent $70 million telling people I'm gonna raise their taxes. I'm not gonna raise taxes on the average American at all. I'm gonna give 98% of America a tax cut. They don't like that because I'm gonna roll back their unfair tax cut for the wealthiest Americans. And that's who they like to protect: Halliburton and a bunch of other pals. We're gonna come in here and make this place fair again, and they're scared of that. So I'll tell you, they've spent $70 million, unprecedented amount of money. We're still very close, or I'm ahead, whatever. The point is that the country is very divided, and the country's gonna look for leadership on real issues.
Kerry: I was appalled, amazed, and saddened for our country. Most of our military, I think everybody knows, live by higher standards, and we're grateful for their service to our country. But this is a black mark of unbelievable proportions on the United States of America. It's a very sad moment, and I think that the Bush administration has, once again, not handled something very well with respect to Iraq. It's not the first time with respect to Iraq, but once again, the Pentagon just doesn't seem to get it. And this report has been beating around in the Pentagon for some time. This Sunday, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff went on television. He hadn't even read the executive summary of this report. The day that Donald Rumsfeld went up to brief Congress, he knew that there was a report coming out on 60 minutes about it. He never told the Senate. I think this administration has, once again, been slow, they've had a tin ear about what it means, and it has cost us. And it may have cost additional terrorism, it certainly will have cost us in terms of hatred and recruitment, and our reputation, and it may put our troops at greater risk.
Tavis: Is it just that they are slow, as you see it, or is it that this is deliberate? That there is--well, are they slow or is it deliberate?
Kerry: Tavis, I don't--I can't tell you. I don't know the--I want the facts, every American does, but I'll tell you this. They're out of touch, whether they're slow or not. I think that they are putting our troops at greater risk than they need to be. This will increase the risk. But even before this, because we are occupying Iraq almost alone, because this president has refused to really do the hard work of diplomacy to bring other people to the table, Americans are paying billions of dollars more than they ought to be. And it comes at the expense of health care, education, jobs, all the things we need.
Tavis: But if it turns out, and you seem to suggest now, as others have--that's why your colleagues in the Senate call for these investigations immediately--that Mr. Rumsfeld knew something. So there are going to be questions asked--what did he know? When did he know it? Why didn't he do anything about it? Are those legitimate questions?
Kerry: Absolutely.
Tavis: Your former colleague on the hill, at least, the late, great Tip O'Neil once said--from Massachusetts, obviously--once said that all politics is local and we could talk about international issues ad nauseam, and I suspect the American people want to talk about that and they'll vote on that in November, but at the end of the day, I suspect that most American voters will vote their pocketbook. They're gonna vote issues that matter to them, they're gonna vote issues that are close here to home. You've been talking a lot lately about outsourcing and that what's wrong with our economy is that too many American corporations are making more money at home, sending more jobs abroad. Talk to me about why you're so passionate about that and whether you think it's gonna catch on.
Kerry: Let me tell you what my concern is. I want to frame it correctly. I want America to compete abroad, and we're gonna have jobs that are gonna be created in American companies abroad. That's not the issue. The issue is why are American workers reaching into their pockets and taking hard-earned tax money and actually rewarding companies that go overseas? If you're a worker in Detroit and you're watching jobs go overseas, your company makes money in Detroit, that company is going to be taxed at the corporate rate in America, but if that company went abroad or its competitor is abroad, they get to defer their taxes, year after year if they want to, as long as they keep the money over there, so there's an incentive to take the money abroad, keep it abroad. I want the jobs created here in America. I want American workers put to work. I want the incentive to go to the company that stays here to compete in the world. Now, we'll still lose some jobs, I'm not gonna pretend to anybody in America that you can just stop outsourcing cold, but what we can do is make the playing field more even, and we deserve a president who stands up and fights for the American worker, who fights for an even playing field. The Chinese play games with their money value. The Chinese are playing games with certain laws, intellectual property, they're not allowing access to market in certain things as are other countries. This president has failed to use the measures that Congress gave him to be able to fight for the American worker. I will fight for the American worker.
Tavis: How do you juxtapose those 2 things? How do you balance those 2 things? That is to say, being friendly and for the American worker, but not perceived as anti-business with a strategy like that?
Kerry: Common sense. Fairness. Warren Buffett, the second richest man in the United States of America--
Tavis: In the world.
Kerry: In the world. He is supporting me in this race because he believes I have a better economic plan for the United States and I'll be more responsible fiscally. Bob Rubin, the former Secretary of the Treasury under President Clinton who presided over an incredible economy, who was fiscally responsible, helped us balance the budget, pay down the debt. We created 23 million new jobs. He's supporting me, and I think that as business people see that I am pro-business, fiscally responsible, but I want to be fair. You know, the wage earners of America are going backwards in their earnings. People are working harder and harder trying to get ahead, and they've seen health insurance go up 50%. They've seen gasoline go up. They've seen college tuitions go up 35%. George Bush wants to give a tax cut to the wealthiest Americans. I want to stop that and help the average American to be able to get ahead. That's a real difference between us, and I think it's just common sense.
Tavis: Talk to me about what your plan for urban America is. There's an old adage inside of black America, certainly, that when the rest of America gets a cold, black America gets pneumonia, and I suspect other people of color feel the same way: still the last hired and the first fired. Talk to me about John Kerry's plan for urban America.
Kerry: I've always worked hard on the issues of urban America. I've been chairman of the small business committee and we worked hard to get minority set-asides for minority-owned businesses so we could help. I helped write the legislation called 'Historically Under-utilized Business Zones' so we could go into the inner city, take areas that had trouble attracting business and provide benefits and additional investment so we could attract that business to those areas. I believe that you've got to make the cities of America more livable simply because the solution to sprawl and the solution to a lot of people's travel problems of having to commute an hour, an hour and a half to go to work and find a place that's affordable is to build more affordable and decent housing in our cities, make our schools work in the cities, have the cultural services that are necessary to support a population. You go to New York City, you can walk around the whole city, and there are different neighborhoods, different places, and people live--and there are services, and people take pride in that community. All over the place--you can go to San Francisco, Boston, cities where you can walk and where there's that ability, but you go to other cities, and the center of the city shuts down at 4:00 or 5:00 in the afternoon. That's what we've gotta change. You can't do it, Tavis, if you're going to keep giving tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans to the exclusion of investing in the future of our country.
Tavis: As you know, speaking of black voters, black voters are the most loyal constituency within the Democratic Party. Hispanics give their votes, overwhelmingly still, to the Democratic Party. There are rumblings, as you well know--this is no secret to John Kerry--rumblings still that you have not energized the black base. You have not energized the Hispanic base. You can't win without it. How do you energize black and brown voters?
Kerry: We're gonna work at it. I'm gonna reach out. I'm gonna reach out as much as I can.
Tavis: Is your campaign structure not black and brown enough at the top?
Kerry: No, actually, I think it's very good, but it's--we're always capable of doing better, at being better. But I've had--I'm proud of the support that I've had from the beginning. I mean, Congressman Harold Ford from Tennessee, Congressman Gregory Meeks from New York, Juanita Millender-McDonald from California. We've had terrific support, you know. My deputy campaign manager's African American. I can run through it--I'm not gonna run through the list, 'cause I feel confident about it. We are gonna continue to reach out. I have been meeting with Jesse Jackson, with Al Sharpton, with Elijah Cummings, with Jim Clyburn--with all kinds of leadership in the Party. I just asked Stephanie Tubbs Jones, from Ohio, to become a co-chair of the Democratic National Committee, and I did that before some of these "rumblings." So, I feel strongly that as people hear what I'm talking about, and as I reach out, which I will do every single day in this campaign, people will realize there's a huge difference between George Bush and John Kerry on issues that matter to the minority community all across this country, to cities across this country, to women across this country, to children across this country. To all people who feel we could do a better job of addressing the needs of our nation.
Tavis: I've got less than 2 minutes. 2 quick questions, if I might. Uh, first--I know you're not gonna give me the details of this yet, but I gotta ask: the time line, at least, on picking a running mate, and have you really narrowed the list down to 2 or 3 people? Tell me something here.
Kerry: Ha ha ha ha!
Tavis: Come on. Give me something. Give me something.
Kerry: I'm gonna pick a nominee before the convention.
Tavis: Oh, you said that. Come on, you can do better than that.
Kerry: We're doing--what I want to do is a personal and thorough job. I can tell you this--I've cast a broad net. I'm looking all across the country. There are no preconditions or favorites. I'm gonna open every door and window I can to look for possibilities, but I want to keep it to be a private and personal process, Tavis. And I think that it works better for everybody.
Tavis: You still feeling good about your chances in November?
Kerry: It's up to the American people. I feel very confident that I'm offering the country a way to get back to work, to have health care, to fix our schools, and most importantly, I think now, to restore our reputation in the world. I can lead America in a better war, a more effective war on terror, and I can, I think, make America safer than George Bush has.
Tavis: Thanks for coming by. I see you've got a busy schedule. I appreciate your time. My pleasure. John Kerry, the presumptive Democratic nominee. Hope to talk to him again, hopefully between now and November. As always, thanks for watching. From L.A., good night, and keep the faith.
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