E-mail a friendMichael Moore
airdate June 29, 2004
An Academy Award-winning filmmaker, author and activist, Michael Moore is one of America's most fearless political commentators. He became famous for his film Roger & Me, about the devastating effects of GM's downsizing on his Flint, MI hometown. Moore's documentaries have been the most financially successful in film history. His Fahrenheit 9/11 won top prize at Cannes and set box-office records, and he turned his attention to the health industry in SiCKO. He takes on Wall Street in his new film, Capitalism: A Love Story.
Michael Moore
Tavis: Michael Moore joins us tonight from New York City. Michael, how you livin'?
Moore: Uh...Ha ha ha. I'm livin'.
Tavis: You're livin' large. You're livin' large, Michael, say it! You're livin' large.
Moore: I am living large, and, uh, yes, I-- This has been an incredible week. I'm still having to pinch myself to, you know, actually believe that this is true.
Tavis: It's been 48 hours. I don't know if you've come down or not yet. But were you as amazed as everybody else was at how well this thing did? I mean, the numbers, any way you want to look at this, by any objective or for that matter un-objective standard, you hit last weekend not just a home run but a grand slam. This movie in one weekend made more money than 'Bowling for Columbine' has done to this day. In one weekend you made more on this one movie.
Moore: That's right, yeah. It, uh, it violated laws of physics that I don't even--I can't even explain. None of us expected this, of course, and it was truly an amazing thing, and I'll tell ya, it gave me a lot of hope for the country that people would come out on a beautiful summer weekend to see a non-fiction film in the movie theaters. You know, I guess the way I felt after seeing all the numbers and all the exit polls and all this from the surveys they do of people coming to see it, it was clear to me that there are a lot of people in this country that want some questions answered and who are unhappy with what's going on.
Tavis: And not just folk who are Democrats. Not just folk who hate Bush. I mean, this movie, to a point you made earlier, has done well in the 'red' states. You want to explain that?
Moore: It was number one in every state that voted for George w. Bush. It was the number one movie of the weekend. It was number one in places like Fayetteville, North Carolina, just outside Fort Bragg. It was number one in, you know, all these what are considered conservative areas. And I read a lot of the newspaper reports in the last couple of days where they interviewed people coming out; and people would say, you know, 'I'm a Republican, but I was deeply affected by this movie.' And a number of them I read... A young woman in a theater in Florida calling herself a Republican, and she was sitting there in tears--it was a story in the New York Times--and saying that she didn't know what she was gonna do now because she'd always supported Bush but didn't know if she could do that. So the film seemed to have an effect on not just the choir but, you know, those who, you know, have been singing off-tune and are not allowed in the choir.
Tavis: Yeah. Let me ask you, speaking of Mr. Bush and his supporters, there are any number of ways, I guess, to look at this. But tell me how significantly you think the right--the Bush supporters--didn't just overplay their hand, but in fact played into your hand in making this thing break all kinds of box office records last weekend.
Moore: Well, I owe them a debt of gratitude.
Tavis: Yes, you do. Yes, you do.
Moore: They came after this film in so many ways in the last month, trying to see that it wouldn't get distributed, harassing theater owners. There was a group--the same group that got the Reagan mini-series canceled from CBS. They decided that they were gonna harass and intimidate the movie theater owners so that they would not show my movie. That failed, so then they went and filed a-- they were gonna go to the FEC to get them to take our ads for the movie off TV, saying they're political ads. I mean, every step along the way. And all they did was give more publicity to the film and make more people aware of it.
And I'll tell you the great thing about our fellow Americans, no matter what their political stripe is, they don't like being told they can't see something as an adult. They don't like people who are sitting up on their high horse somewhere telling them, 'You can't see this,' you know? It's like that just doesn't go over very well, and it made people only want to see it more. And when they did go in to see it, what they saw in my movie were many, many scenes of things that they have not seen on the evening news over the last year or so.
Tavis: Let me thank you and the people at Lions Gate. The people at Lions Gate, when we invited you on the program, were courteous enough to set up a private screening for me over at the studio to see this. I thanked them, but I passed on that opportunity to go for the private screening because I wanted to go see it amongst the people. So I paid my money, went with a couple friends of mine, sat in a movie theater to see the piece 'cause I wanted to see what the audience response was going to be. First of all, I'm glad I got there early 'cause if I'd have rolled in late like I usually do, I wouldn't have gotten in, in the first place. It was sold out. But I did get in. I got a chance to see it amongst people in the theater. Enough of my experience. I raise that because I want to know whether or not you have seen it in a theater with common, ordinary, everyday ticket buyers, and what kind of response you had amongst those people.
Moore: I did that this weekend. I snuck in, sat in the back of a few theaters--
Tavis: Wait, wait, wait. Michael Moore doesn't sneak in anywhere. You had to be spotted.
Moore: Well, the last theater I went to, I did get spotted. Someone turned around and saw me and then told the person next to them, and then somebody in front of them heard 'Michael Moore's here,' and suddenly everybody was turning around, and then the whole theater saw that I was there, and people started applauding during the movie.
Tavis: Wow.
Moore: And then some of them stood, and I'm going, 'Oh, my God, sit down.'
Tavis: Watch the movie.
Moore: Watch the movie! I had to get out of there. It was--listening to the reactions of people during the movie was incredible. I had not seen it that way 'cause I'd only seen it at the Cannes film festival, and I'd seen it at our premieres in New York and L.A., but I hadn't really seen it with that kind of audience, other than the test screenings we did before going to Cannes. And those screenings that I did before Cannes were very powerful. I knew then that something was afoot.
Tavis: The piece is moving in a lot of ways. There are a couple of things that I want to bring to your attention and get your thoughts on that particularly moved me, and I'll take a host's prerogative for a second just to share with you a couple scenes that really got my attention.
One was the clip we already played of this brother--this African American saying he would not go back. We've seen that piece. I was moved by that, number one.
Number two, I was moved by the scene where you took the time to showcase the members of the Congressional Black Caucus going to that podium in the well of the House one after another, asking to be heard about what happened in the 2000 election before the Electoral College was approved, giving Mr. Bush the presidency. Mr. Gore, ironically, as the president of the Senate, had to oversee; he was the person in charge of that session. And one by one, these CBC members stand at the microphone, and they cannot be heard about a matter this important because not one U.S. senator would sign up--would sign off, rather, on letting there be debate or conversation, even, on the question of what happened in Florida. A very moving scene for me.
Moore: When I first got that tape, and we were looking at it in the edit room, two of the people on my crew had to leave the room, they were so upset at watching each of these African American members of Congress being gaveled shut--just, you know, you're not allowed to speak. And all they wanted to say were a few words, but in order to do that in a joint session, you had to have the one senator sign a piece of paper saying OK. And of these 100 senators, many of them very liberal, not one of them would allow these black congressmen and women to speak. And one after another, they're told to sit down. And it's a sad moment, it really is. And it does affect people in the theater.
Tavis: Some of the footage you received is in the public domain. I suspect you could've gotten that piece from C-Span 'cause they cover a lot of the live coverage of the House and the Senate. But there's some footage in there you got that was amazing to me, and I can't believe that anybody who knew what you were up to actually signed off on letting you have that footage. How did you get such great footage in this piece?
Moore: Well, we got it in a variety of ways. Some people did sign off. We bought some of it, some people gave it to us, some people-- There were free-lancers in Iraq who sent us things; we sent free-lancers to Iraq. Soldiers sent me things. It's a variety of sources, but you have to really work. You have to really get out there and work to find that stuff.
And I think that's one of the most amazing things when people see this movie because I hear people coming out of the theater going, 'I never saw that. I never saw that.' And I'm glad they're asking the question because the networks need to be held accountable. Why haven't you seen that? Why aren't you seeing this side of the story? Why aren't you hearing from the soldiers in Iraq who are disillusioned and dissatisfied with what's going on? All we see every night is the rah-rah, the cheerleading. And, granted, I'd say--I would guess the majority of soldiers over there approve of what President Bush is doing, but what about the minority? You know, the great thing about this country is we're supposed to be able to hear all voices. Everyone gets to be heard. And all we've had is a steady drum beat for a year of one voice, one way of looking at things--
Tavis: This is heady stuff, Michael, and I don't want to be too heady about it, but have you really changed what it means to be a documentarian in this country? I mean, documentaries just don't do what this documentary did last weekend. These are movie numbers. I mean, you beat the 'White Chicks' last weekend.
Moore: Uh, yeah, I--ha ha ha! I heard one of the comedians or somebody said the headline in Variety today was, 'Bush licks ‘White Chicks.''
Tavis: Ha ha ha!
Moore: Of course, I totally disapprove of that headline. Um, but, uh...and certainly my apologies to the Wayans brothers, who I love. I'm sure it's a very funny film, as is 'Dodgeball' and the other things that are out there this weekend. We did not expect to beat them. And then when I found out that we not only were number one and the first documentary to come in at number one, they started giving me all these other records that we broke--the largest gross for a weekend ever for any film that was in a thousand theaters or less. That was a record previously held by 'Rocky.' Uh, we had a larger gross on our opening weekend than 'Return of the Jedi' had on their opening weekend.
Tavis: Wow.
Moore: I mean, it's like, stuff like--and they're throwing this at you, and you're going, 'Uh, I was just makin' a little film here with my little camera.'
Tavis: Yeah, the little film that could. I got about a minute to go. Right quick, tell me whether or not--you've said two things. I've got less than a minute here. You've said this movie's about entertaining people 'cause you can't sell stuff without entertaining them, but you also want to empower them. You made it very clear you want Bush out. How do you do both, entertain and empower at the same time?
Moore: Well, I don't have to worry about the entertainment. Bush provided all the entertainment in the movie. The funniest lines in the movie are his. I give him his props for that. And, uh, I hope the studio starts a, like, supporting actor campaign for the Oscars for him because the guy is brilliant. His timing is incredible, and his use of the language is so... You know, I couldn't write lines like the ones that he speaks. But, yes, look, this movie, it's very funny. People--I was in the theater this weekend--they're laughing so hard, you can't hear the next line. And then it shifts, and it's very sad, and people are crying.
Tavis: It will make you laugh. It will make you cry, but I suspect most importantly for you and for me and others who have seen it, it makes you think. Michael, congratulations. All the best to you. We gotta do this again sometime.
Moore: I hope so, Tavis. Thanks for having me on.
Tavis: My delight. Take care, Michael.
Moore: All right. Thank you.
Tavis: Be well, now. Michael Moore, director of the critically acclaimed 'Fahrenheit 9/11.' Up next on this program, speaking of critically acclaimed, first-time novelist Erica Kennedy. Stay with us.
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