E-mail a friendCarmen Binladin
original airdate July 16, 2004
Carmen Binladin is a former sister-in-law of the world's most wanted terrorist leader. She married Osama's brother, Yeslam, in 1974 and lived in Saudi Arabia for nine years. She's described her life in Saudi Arabia as a "prison,' and in her new book, Inside the Kingdom, lifts the lid on life in the bin Laden family and within a Saudi community. She suggests the Bin Ladens have not been candid about their relations to the man behind the Sept. 11 attacks.
Carmen Binladin
Tavis: Carmen Binladin's life changed forever in 1974 when she married a wealthy Saudi businessman who just happened to be a member of the Bin Laden family. Her harrowing experience since marrying into the Bin Laden clan is detailed in her new book, 'Inside the Kingdom: My Life in Saudi Arabia.' Carmen Binladin joins us tonight from New York City. Ms. Binladin, nice to have you on the program.
Carmen Binladin: Good evening. Thank you for having me on the program.
Tavis: It's my delight. May I call you Carmen?
Carmen: Yes, of course.
Tavis: I'm fascinated to start our conversation with a quote that I take from your book. You write that--let me put it this way, there was an Afghan fighter by the name of Ahmed Shah Massoud who was murdered on September 9, 2001. That, of course, is two days before September 11. When this Afghan fighter, Mr. Massoud, dies suddenly you write, quote, 'This is Osama. He is getting ready for something truly awful.' What was it about this person's death that made you know Osama Bin Laden was up to something big 48 hours later?
Carmen: Because I remember that, you know, after the African--the terrorist attack in Africa on the embassies, that there was an attempt to stop Osama in Afghanistan, and I thought that something was going to--I felt that something was going to happen because... And he didn't want that the West would have an ally in Afghanistan.
Tavis: Did you have any idea that whatever he was planning would be as big as it turned out to be, as dastardly and as deadly as it turned out to be, of course, hitting the World Trade Center and other points here in the U.S?
Carmen: No. No, I was worried that something would happen in Europe.
Tavis: So you were thinking Europe. You weren't thinking USA?
Carmen: No. No.
Tavis: Um, tell me what it was like when you met Mr. Bin Laden's brother. Take me back and tell me what it was like when you met him and how in fact you met him?
Carmen: My husband, you mean?
Tavis: Yes, your husband. Yes.
Carmen: Yes. I met him in Geneva and we fell in love and we got married. And, um, I met him in Geneva and he was, um, he was very clever and he was... I don't know what to say. I just fell in love with him.
Tavis: That's fair enough. Love sometimes is difficult to explain. I understand that. Let me ask you, though, did you have an idea at any point in the process, any point during your marriage--obviously at some point you did--you figured out you'd married into a family with a guy that was a little strange, for lack of a better word. When did you realize that you were a part of a family that had a character like Osama Bin Laden as a member?
Carmen: Well, you know, in Saudi Arabia religion is very important. Then Osama, at the time I was married with my husband, Osama was well liked and admired because of his involvement in Afghanistan fighting with the mujahedin against the soviet army. And it's--I was already separated with my husband when Osama started committing those--Osama and his followers started committing those terrorist acts. That was later, in the eighties.
Tavis: Mm-hmm. So it was in the eighties that you realized that you were the sister-in-law to an individual who was doing some interesting and crazy things?
Carmen: Yes. Exactly.
Tavis: Yeah. Tell me what it was like. I want to talk more about what's inside this book 'Inside the Kingdom' because obviously everybody wants to know about your relationship with Bin Laden, Osama, and I understand people asking those questions. I've asked some here. But I'm also fascinated by what life was like for you in Saudi Arabia. You met your husband, Mr. Bin Laden's brother as you mentioned, in Geneva. You still live in Switzerland today but obviously you spend a lot of time in Saudi Arabia. For women, specifically, what is it like to live in a place like Saudi Arabia?
Carmen: Well, it's a completely different society, and there is a huge difference between what we are used to here and what--the woman--you experience as a Westerner in Saudi Arabia. And you live mainly in your house, and you don't have the liberty that you would have in Europe or in the States.
Tavis: You are now divorced from your husband, Mr. Bin Laden's brother Yeslam. I don't mean to get too personal here, but did your divorce from him, your separation from him--you and your three daughters--have anything to do with the fact that you realized that his brother was in fact a terrorist, or did that have nothing to do with your breakup from your husband?
Carmen: No. That had nothing to do with my breakup with my husband. Our marriage didn't work out, and this was before Osama became so unfortunately famous.
Tavis: What message have you tried to impart to your three daughters through the writing of this book 'Inside the Kingdom,' because obviously you dedicate the book to them?
Carmen: Of course, you know this book is mainly for my daughters, for me to explain to them how I've analyzed that society and I come to the realization that it would be very difficult for them if they had stayed there, to be able to be what they wanted to be and to be free, to have the freedom of choice and the freedom that any western woman would have, is entitled to have.
Tavis: I don't mean to get too political here, and if this question makes you uncomfortable just tell me and I'll move on to something else, but I'm fascinated by a comment you made earlier. When you met Mr. Bin Laden's brother Yeslam, your former husband, you said at the time Osama was very popular at the time because of the fight he was engaged in at the time. Over a period of time, of course, the USA, as we now know, became one of his targets. Tell me why it is you believe, having spent time of course in Saudi Arabia, in the Middle East, that so many people alongside of Mr. Bin Laden don't like America. There's a great deal of conversation, as you know, in our country about why people in that part of the world don't like us, so why do you think that is?
Carmen: Well, I cannot understand first of all that you wouldn't like America because my feeling toward America is completely different, but I know it's...it's always a surprise. It's an astonishment for me that they would not like the States because I don't see any reason for that. But I felt that they don't--they don't... They didn't question their culture, and they do believe that their culture is what there is.
Tavis: What's your sense of why they don't question their culture? In America, as you know, one of the things that we do all the time is argue and fight and debate and question authority all the time. Why, in a place like Saudi Arabia and in the Middle East and other countries, is the culture not questioned?
Carmen: I don't know. I think-- I guess that it's so ingrained in them that they think they have a superiority in their belief and in their faith and they are--they believe that they are right. They don't have any respect for our way of living.
Tavis: But it's not fair, though. There are some people, and I'm always bothered when I hear people who try to cast aspersion, they try to act as if everyone who practices the Muslim faith does not like America, is wrong, is out of touch. It's not fair to say, obviously, that everybody who practices that religion in that region of the world is troubled. That's not fair, is it?
Carmen: No. I don't think that everybody who practices Islam will, how would you say, be anti-American. But my experience in Saudi Arabia is that we are at a clash of culture, and that for them, morally, they would not want to be like us.
Tavis: You argue that you are having a difficult time believing that the Bin Laden family has cut Mr. Bin Laden, Osama, off completely. Why do you find that hard to believe that his family has completely cut him off, in terms of contact and support, et cetera?
Carmen: Because I think that in-- It's very difficult for me to believe, in knowing that culture, that they would disown one of their brothers.
Tavis: Is the situation that exists now, with the followers of Mr. Bin Laden, going to get worse before it gets better? Have we seen the worst, or is this drama really just starting to build?
Carmen: I hope I am wrong, but I think that it's going to build more. I hope I'm wrong.
Tavis: Is there a reason why you believe it might get worse before it gets better?
Carmen: It's just a feeling I have that it's going to get worse.
Tavis: It's something you feel in your gut?
Carmen: Yes, exactly.
Tavis: Yeah. Well, as you said, you hope you're wrong about that. I hope you're wrong about that. Indeed, all Americans and I suspect the world hopes that you are wrong about that. But I thank you for coming on. The book is called 'Inside the Kingdom: My life in Saudi Arabia.' It is written by Carmen Binladin, the sister-in-law of Osama Bin Laden. Carmen, nice to have you on. All the best to you.
Carmen: Thank you very much.
Tavis: And to your three daughters as well.
Carmen: Thank you.
Tavis: Thank you very much.
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