MONDAY
E-mail a friendSen. Barack Obama
airdate July 29, 2004
After months of speculation on whether he would run in '08, Illinois' junior senator Barack Obama announced his candidacy for the White House in February ‘07. He's proven to be a stellar fund-raiser and a popular candidate. The only African American in the U.S. Senate, Obama is a Harvard Law School grad—and the first African American president of the Harvard Law Review—a former civil rights lawyer and former state senator. His committee assignments include Foreign Relations, Veterans' Affairs and Homeland Security.
Sen. Barack Obama
Tavis: I cannot introduce this guy any better than he introduced himself to the American public a couple of nights ago around here. Illinois State Senator Barack Obama and if the polls hold, soon to be the next U. S. senator from the state of Illinois. Barack, nice to see you.
Obama: Tavis, great to see you.
Tavis: I'm glad you had time for me. I don't know how you found time for a little guy like me.
Obama: Oh, no, no, you're big time. When I'm on Tavis, I know that I've made it.
Tavis: How have you been holding up? It's been 48 hours since the country learned how to pronounce your name correctly. I've used your line so many times trying to explain what's your name and your name is pronounced. It ain't Oh Sama, it isn't Yo Mama.
Obama: It ain't Alabama.
Tavis: It ain't Alabama. It's Obama. Everybody knows that name now.
Obama: Well, you know, I'm glad to hear that folks are actually pronouncing it correctly; and listen, the reception's been terrific. Everybody's been so gracious and it's been real heartfelt on the part of folks.
Tavis: It's been fascinating for me to see somebody who I've known for years come into the national consciousness. Jesse Jr. and I were talking the other day--Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. Kwame Kilpatrick was on this show this week. We were talking, and for us it was just fascinating to sit here in this hall and to watch you come into the consciousness of everybody across the country, but you seem to be handling it well.
Obama: You know, the nice thing aside from having a wife who's got a great sense of humor and doesn't take this stuff too seriously is to remind you who you are. Really what I tried to do in that speech was just give voice to what I'm hearing from voters on the South side of Chicago and downstate Illinois. And, you know, it was really their eloquence that was communicated; and so it's not that hard for me to keep it in perspective. You know, this is really just an expression of I think a lot of the hopes and dreams of people all across the country who know we can do a little bit better, and I hope--recognize that John Kerry and John Edwards are going to be the team that can help us do better.
Tavis: We'll talk about that in just a second, but speaking of Illinois, I brought the New York Times with me--today's New York Times because I cracked up when I read this political line. You've probably been so busy you haven't even seen today's paper yet, even this late in the day. But as you well know, obviously, you were running for this seat because a Republican U.S. senator from Illinois named Peter G. Fitzgerald after one term decided to step down; so that creates a vacancy for Barack Obama to run for the U. S. Senate. So here's a Republican who presented Mr. Obama the opportunity to run for his seat who's quoted in the New York Times today saying, 'Taking the Republican nomination in Illinois for the U. S. Senate under the current circumstances would be akin to accepting a cancer transplant.' So here's a Republican who gave up the seat who wanted obviously another Republican to take his seat say, 'To take this seat now, to even try to get this seat after Obama's speech is like accepting a cancer transplant.' I raise that because I want to ask, with Republicans making statements like that, who's going to be crazy enough to run against you? I think a lot of listeners--a lot viewers rather, don't know that right now you are unopposed.
Obama: Right now, because Jack Ryan the Republican nominee chose to drop out after the press surrounding a divorce filed, we don't have an opponent yet, and the Republicans have the right to make an appointment. It has been delayed repeatedly. Remember there was talk about Ditka. I was looking forward to going after Ditka because I would--
Tavis: Would you have wanted that?
Obama: Well, because I was going to talk to him about football. You know, anybody who gives the ball to Fridge instead of Sweetness, right? After having carried that squad for eight years on his back, shows bad judgment. But I love Coach Ditka. It would have been fun, but now we got to find out who they're going to appoint. I'm sure they will find somebody who can articulate the Republican philosophy. Their problem is not going to be who the candidate is, their problem is the message, and I just think it's a message that is not resonating in Illinois.
Tavis: Whoever that person might be, should they find somebody bold enough, brave enough, stupid enough depending on ones point of view. If you can step up and come against you after your appearance here this week, one could argue that because the bar has been lowered for that person--I mean, the bar has been raised for you, and I know you, and I love you and, you know, you're human. You're not human and divine; although folk are trying to make you the next president after that speech the other night. You're still human. The bar has been raised so high for you, you have almost got to be perfect now. The bar has been lowered for anybody running against you. Some guy could sneak in, and first of all, you're going to get three million dollars worth of free press just being the person to run against Obama, you might get surprised.
Obama: Oh, listen, we are not taking anything for granted, you know, tonight is Thursday. We're all going to be focused on John Kerry. Tomorrow I'm going to take a day off. Saturday, Michelle and the kids and me, we load up into an RV, and we're going to take a 20 county tour over five days of downstate Illinois. Just traveling around talking to voters and getting some ice cream and taking the kids swimming. But I'm very clear that I've got to stay focused on Illinois, and that we haven't won anything yet, and the worst thing that I could do is start taking all this hype and all this press seriously. Ultimately what voters want to know is not whether you can deliver a good speech, they want to know are you somebody who can help them pay their bills, help save money for their kids' college education, deal with this health care crisis that we have. If we talk about those issues effectively, I think we'll be just fine.
Tavis: How did you decide what to put in, what to leave out of your speech? I've been in a number of conversations all this week, certainly since your speech, with people trying to analyze what you did say, what you didn't say, you know, as always, speeches get parsed. And I only felt for you because, you know, it's unfortunate in many respects that if, in fact, you win, you'll be the only African American in the U. S. Senate. You've got to be all things to all people. How do you do a speech where you have to remain authentically black--?
Obama: Right.
Tavis: --For those black folk in Chicago and the South side you represent, who know you, that at the same time, everybody else now, you're the face of the Party.
Obama: Right.
Tavis: I heard Pat Buchanan say that you were great. It was the best speech he's heard in a long time.
Obama: Well, you know, I think that--I try to remind people that I'm rooted in the African American community but I'm not limited by it and I think that basic philosophy applies to the speech and it applies to my politics. When I try to pass a bill that is boosting the wages of low-wage workers, that helps everybody; but disproportionately, black folk are low-wage. If I'm working on people who are uninsured or underinsured, that helps everybody; but black folks are specifically underinsured. And so my approach is generally to say, the African American experience is not unique to America, and that we're all aspiring for the same common dreams and common hopes, so that if I help everybody, I can help the African American community in particular. Now, there's some issues, like, affirmative action or discrimination in which those are specific to minority communities, and I'm going to stand foursquare behind dealing with those issues, but see I have optimism that white America wants to see justice done as well, and I don't think those things are contradictory.
Tavis: I heard somebody make a comment the other day--in fact two days ago. Somebody early today said to me, a top level democratic strategist inside the DNC said to me that, you know, we were trying to get folk to help raise money for Barack just a few weeks ago in his race. Now, everybody else running for the U. S. senate wants you to come to their state to raise money for them. So, you gonna go on the hustings and try to help other folks get elected?
Obama: I'm going to do whatever I can within the constraints of me staying focused on Illinois. I think, you know, folks in the Midwest, they don't like a lot of pretense. They don't want you going Hollywood and if the people start--
Tavis: Hey, I live in Hollywood.
Obama: Well--
Tavis: I live in L. A.
Obama: Well, and I like folks from Hollywood, and I'm going to be visiting Hollywood.
Tavis: And we've got money in Hollywood.
Obama: Absolutely, but you understand what I'm saying. If folks start thinking that you're too big for your britches, that's when they'll knock you down, and rightfully so. So my job--the most important thing I can do for the Democratic Party--is win this seat.
Tavis: Right.
Obama: We've got to win this seat for Democrats to take over the senate. Within those constraints, I think the possibilities where I can be helpful in other places.
Tavis: Well, this convention is essentially over. John Kerry is now the nominee. John Edwards is his running mate. We'll see how they do between now and November. Barack Obama is the newest rising star of the Democratic Party. Barack Obama, always a pleasure to see you.
Obama: It's great to see you, Tavis.
Tavis: Man, glad you came on the program. All the best to Michelle, the kids and have fun in the camper eating ice cream.
Obama: That's what we're--and swimming.
Tavis: And swimming.
Obama: My kids are a lot more impressed if I swim than if I give a keynote speech.
Tavis: See you later, Barack. Take care, man.
Obama: All right, see you later. Thank you.
Tavis: My pleasure.
Sharpton: How you doing, Tavis?
Tavis: I'm well man. How are you?
Sharpton: I'm great.
Tavis: So, obviously, you didn't get the memo from Kerry last night. No Bush bashing, man.
Sharpton: Well, I don't think I bashed Bush. I didn't call him any names. I answered his questions. If he went to the National Urban League. He said he wanted to ask African Americans some questions. I was not allowed to answer him there, so I figured that I would answer him in front of the Democratic convention.
Tavis: Did you get cussed out backstage for going past your six minutes?
Sharpton: No, in fact Terry McAuliff, the chairman of the party, had me as his guest at the skybox for the rest of the evening, and Sen. Kennedy and others were there, were very happy that someone answered him on these issues. You know, I really was offended that George Bush would throw the gauntlet down like black Americans need to choose. 'Why are you there? Aren't you being taken for granted?'
Tavis: And called your name.
Sharpton: Yeah.
Tavis: In his Urban League speech.
Sharpton: Well, I think I had a responsibility to answer that. It was almost insulting, like we were unthinkingly voting Democrat, not based on the record; and I went a little over time but a lot of that was the audience reaction, and I had to go with the flow.
Tavis: Got to go with the flow. Stop applauding, you all. I need my time. I need my time. Stop applauding. Let me ask you, before I get more into your speech and the speech that Kerry gives tonight. Let me ask you what you make of what President Bush had to say at the Urban League? What he basically said for those who didn't see the speech or hear about it was that, he said that *(inaudible) black folk at the Urban League. By the way, he got three--you were there--he got three standing ovations. Now, clearly, Urban League black folk ain't NAACP black folk--
Sharpton: Right.
Tavis: --But that's it. You still black folk.
Sharpton: Right.
Tavis: You still got three standing ovations. But he basically said to these black folk, the Democratic Party has taken you for granted. The Republican Party has got, you know, we've ignored you all. We got more we can do, and I'm working on that, but you all are being played by the Democrats. Ain't he right about that?
Sharpton: But that's why I figured it had to be dealt with, because in all of this political language, talk of swing states. If you don't have the base which includes of course labor, women, blacks and Latinos, your swing vote won't mean anything because what are you swinging from? And I don't underestimate, with the faith-based initiatives and the argument on moral questions, that Bush is not going to try to make impact in the black vote. He knows he won't win it, but if he can go double digits, he's re-elected, and I wanted to take that on last night and say, we've got a fight. I sat in the room and watched blacks clap for George Bush, and that ought to be a major concern in the Democratic Party, and I didn't want to wait till November 3rd and say, 'I meant to tell you all, we need to take this on.' I took it on and started last night.
Tavis: How concerned then should the Democrats be about his moving from 9% of the black vote in 2000, to 11% or 12% or 13% in 2004?
Sharpton: Very concerned. And clearly this is no paranoia by Al Sharpton. He announced it. He said, 'I'm coming after you. We've got work to do.' He talked about Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice, who I assume they're going to use at their convention and beyond that. So for the Democrats to act like, let's be Mr. Nice Guy, when somebody just walked in and slapped you upside the head and said, 'Aren't you all being taken for granted,' I think is a flawed strategy.
Tavis: What do you think of the Democratic response to Mr. Bush's statement? When I say response, I mean strategically. Strategically, what is the Democratic Party doing beyond giving Al Sharpton 20, 25 minutes in prime time? What are they doing strategically to suggest to you that they're taking his threat or his overture seriously?
Sharpton: Well, I think the fact they started the immediate campaign early with black America, and this is the first time I've heard of spending over a couple million dollars even before the convention. I think that--
Tavis: Although you do admit two million dollars is a drop in the bucket.
Sharpton: No, I admit it's a drop in the bucket, it's just a drop we never had, but it's a drop in the bucket. Putting blacks in place like Bill Lynch now as deputy campaign chair. There's some real movement toward trying to deal with it, but again, we need to do more, and we need to do it and do it visibly, because if black America does not come out and vote, well over 90% and in big numbers, George Bush could be re-elected, and we've got to be clear about that.
Tavis: Now that's the question. The Democrat--the black folk who do show up to vote are clearly, according to all the polls and surveys and studies, are going to vote for Kerry and Bush. I mean Kerry and Edwards, so those who do show up are going to vote for Kerry-Edwards. The question is whether or not the Democratic Party, Kerry-Edwards specifically, have what it takes to get that turnout to be a significant turnout.
Sharpton: Turnout, dealing with the disaffected, dealing with people that don't think it matters to vote, and dealing with people who don't think that you represent their interests. That's why you're going to have to--and I've said this directly to Sen. Kerry--use some of those who are not traditional, but that are convinced you're sincere. Not only Al Sharpton, but some of the entertainers, some of the people that have minds and a mentality that could influence our community; but they've got to be convinced that what they're doing is real. I'm convinced Kerry is sincere. We've got to be able to communicate that.
Tavis: Let me ask you, to your speech last night, whether or not you think that you gave the right speech? There are a lot of folk Monday morning quarterbacking or, as it were, Thursday morning quarterbacking, saying, 'It's Sharpton. You know, he gave a great speech. Roused the--got the audience roused on their feet,' et cetera, et cetera. But to your point, if there's 10% of the American electorate that is undecided. It's trying to make up its mind. Many people argue that you were playing to the folk who already made up their mind, who know they ain't voting for Bush, and you didn't do anything to help the Party advance with that 10% undecided.
Sharpton: But again, in a football game everybody plays a different--
Tavis: Different role.
Sharpton: I'm talking to the 40% that may have decided, but may be saying, 'I'm not going to come out and vote.' If that 40% is not intact, it doesn't matter if you get the majority of the 10% because you really need 20%, if 10% of the 40% are not coming out to vote. So, I saw my job as galvanizing that part of the 40%, so that they can concentrate on the 10%, because there's nothing I said that turns the 10% off. In fact, some of the 10% is saying, 'Interesting. George Bush said, ‘Blacks should not be taken for granted.' I didn't hear anybody answer that.' So, in many ways, I neutralize whatever they try to do with the 10%, while I try to galvanize the 40%. So the 40% is not really 30% when it comes to turnout.
Tavis: I got a minute to go. Let me ask you whether or not--they say hindsight's 20/20 vision, did you enjoy the run? Was the run worth it? Would you have done it again?
Sharpton: It was rough. It was a lot rougher than I thought. I would do it again. At the end of the day, I think, that from bringing the war in first. I was the first one opposed to the war to bring our issues in. It was important that history say, 40 years after Fannie Lou Hamer and 20 years after Rev. Jesse Jackson, that we had no voice, but it was some--I had unexpected rough times, but we brought the ship in the dock, so I'm happy where we ended up.
Tavis: Well, I'm glad you docked on our show today.
Sharpton: Thank you, man.
Tavis: Nice to see you Reverend Al.
Sharpton: All right good to see you.
Tavis: All the best to you.
Sharpton: Love to momma.
Tavis: I'll tell my momma you said hello. You tell, you tell--
Sharpton: I said it myself.
Tavis: And tell Kathy, your wife, I said hello.
Sharpton: I will.
Tavis: Alright. Thank you reverend.
Sharpton: Alright.
Back to July 29, 2004