TONIGHT
E-mail a friendMuhammad Ali
airdate August 4, 2004
Now a humanitarian and activist, Muhammad Ali is the world's most famous boxer and one of the most recognizable personalities of the 20th century. His list of accomplishments is staggering - beginning with an Olympic Gold Medal in 1960 and finishing off as a 3-time World Heavyweight Champion. Ali was diagnosed with Parkinson's in 1982, yet continues to contribute to seemingly limitless diverse charities and causes. The first boxer to appear on a box of Wheaties, he's got every reason to proclaim himself, "The Greatest."
Muhammad Ali
Tavis: Please, glad to have you on. Tell me about the center and why you and the champ decided that after all these years, and all that he's contributed, that a center was necessary?
Lonnie: Well, you know, Muhammad is one of these rare individuals whose life has been such a large canvas, and there's so many lessons that we all can learn from Muhammad, all of mankind. And we wanted to do something to sort of give back and sort of take his life--take the lessons this man has learned and sort of actually done on his own naturally--and put those in a place where it would benefit others, children especially, and sort of leave like a road map. A large footprint for people to follow if they want to achieve greatness, if they want to try to be the best that they can be at whatever profession, whatever dedication they want to give their lives to. So most times people do this after someone has passed from this earth, but we felt it was necessary to do it before because the larger the handprint Muhammad can leave on this center, the better off humanity will be.
Tavis: And you guys make the distinction that it is a center, not a museum as it were.
Lonnie: No, it's not a museum and if we wanted to do a museum, we'd probably put it somewhere else. We didn't think that a museum would do justice to his life. I mean, that's really more of memorabilia and reflecting on his boxing career, and Muhammad has transcended that career as everyone knows and has really become something much larger than that. And it's really about the man himself that this center is about. The boxing will be there. I don't want to take that away from those boxing fans who want to come see what it is--
Tavis: That was a small part of his life.
Lonnie: It was a small part.
Tavis: Just a small part, yeah.
Lonnie: It was a small part. And Muhammad will be--you know, part of that will be there. In fact, everything that we have regarding Muhammad will be there. His papers, everything. This thing will house everything about the man. So that component of Muhammad's life, you know, will obviously be, you know, featured, so...
Tavis: I thought to ask you what it is about Ali you think that makes him so beloved around the world. But I'm not gonna ask that question because I think that by walking through these six themes the center is built around, I think we can get that addressed better by doing it this way. Let me throw these words out at you that you all decided to build this center around Ali's life and his connection to these six words. When I give you the word, you tell me what comes to mind about the champ. When I talk about Ali and conviction, what comes to mind?
Lonnie: Always standing for what he believed, never giving up. If Muhammad believes in something, he will stand true to it to the end.
Tavis: Mm-hmm. Confidence.
Lonnie: I mean, what can I say? The man is a walking--
Tavis: What you can say is, 'You going down in the fifth round, and you might as well just lay down in round number 5.'
Lonnie: And you really can't sum this up in one word. When you say 'confidence' about Muhammad, it's about something that, even if he was going down in the fifth round, he would dig down deep and find something within himself to bring himself back up. And always believing that he was gonna be the best, and Muhammad really believed that, and still believes that.
Tavis: I used to love Muhammad Ali as a kid. My dad was a big fan of his. I used to love him as a kid because if he said you were going down in the fifth round, literally, you might as well just lay down, because you could bank on that.
Lonnie: He tried to make that true. He never liked to promote those kinds of things without making them come true.
Tavis: Well, he did a good job of that. Dedication.
Lonnie: Dedication to the field of work that he was in, whether it was his boxing career, because when Muhammad was in training, he gave 110%. If Muhammad was making an appearance for someone, he gives 110%. That's what it is about the man. He knows it's not an easy road to get to where you want to be. You have to put in hours, you have to put in the time, you have to put in the hard work. But you have to be dedicated to that goal. That's something he always was.
Tavis: Respect.
Lonnie: Muhammad has an immeasurable respect for all human beings. And I want to underline all human beings, regardless of where they come from, who they are, and what their walk in life is. He just has this tremendous respect for people in general.
Tavis: Spirituality.
Lonnie: Muhammad, I think--from the time I met him, from the time--I was 6 and Muhammad was 22, I always felt Muhammad was a spiritual being. We all are, but this man had a particular spiritual centering about himself. And I think that's one of the things that sort of was his internal compass. It sort of guided him through his career and to where he is today.
Tavis: And finally, giving.
Lonnie: Well, you know, that's sort of the mark of the man. The man has been generous all of his life, not only giving of his time and his resources, but whatever it is that he can do for anyone, he will take time to do, so...
Tavis: You've been getting a lot of support for this center. I know you guys have a lot of money to raise. How's it coming along?
Lonnie: You know, it's been slow and arduous because, unfortunately, trying to raise money for a new entity is not easy. But when I look at what it took to raise money for the Holocaust Museum, I try not to lose faith, you know, in making this a reality, and it will be a reality. In fact, we actually have broken ground this week on the building itself. But we've had some really large contributors and some people who have really stepped up to the plate and given back, as I would say. Because, really, this is not really about Muhammad. This is about humanity. And we're at a place in our history where this center is so important, not only just for the children and for people here in America, but even around the world. Because Muhammad, as you know, Tavis, is one of the few people who could walk anywhere in the world and be accepted and loved.
Tavis: My floor manager Brian is telling me I got a phone call here. Caller, are you there?
Caller: what's up, Tavis?
Tavis: Oh, my God. I hear that accent. Sounds like Lennox Lewis.
Lennox Lewis: Yeah, that's right.
Tavis: Hey, Lennox. How are you?
Lennox: Hi, Muhammad. Hi, everybody.
Tavis: Say hello to Lonnie, Lennox.
Lennox: Lonnie, what's up?
Lonnie: How are you?
Tavis: How've you been, Lennox?
Lennox: I'm good.
Tavis: So, are you ready to come back yet?
Lennox: No. Definitely not. What I put down, everybody can pick up and try and accomplish what I've accomplished.
Tavis: Tell me what you think of when you think of the name Muhammad Ali.
Lennox: Oh, I think of greatness. I think of definitely respect, giving, confidence, conviction. I think of all those things. But what he really means to me is, you know, I wouldn't be heavyweight champion of the world if it wasn't for Muhammad Ali, because it wasn't until me and my mother actually sat around the TV, watched him, and watched his life and what he did for people, what he did for the sport of boxing and what he achieved, you know, in them times, especially for black people. He's just a great man and he would always be the greatest in my book.
Tavis: What do you make of the work that he and Lonnie are doing at the Muhammad Ali Center in Louisville?
Lennox: I think it's very important. In fact, I'm definitely pledging some money, and I challenge all the other athletes out there. Even--don't have to be athletes. Everybody that loves Muhammad Ali and has followed his life and definitely has watched Muhammad Ali on TV and even watched his life story. They knew what he's gone through and what he's done, and even what he's doing now, and we definitely want a legacy left for the world to really come to realize how great this man was and is.
Tavis: Lonnie, I hate to interrupt while Lennox is talking about giving money, but the champ is here. The champ is walking on the set. Lennox, the champ is walking on. Come on, Howard Bingham. Have a seat, champ. Nice to see you. The champ is here, along with world-famous photographer and best friend.
Lennox: Word.
Tavis: Ha ha ha! Howard Bingham, made famous in the movie 'Ali' by Jeffrey Wright. How are you?
Howard Bingham: I'm doing fine, Tavis.
Lonnie: Did you say Howard was made famous?
Tavis: Made famous by Jeffrey Wright in the movie 'Ali.'
Howard: I helped his career.
Tavis: Ha ha ha! Ali says, 'Yeah, yeah, whatever.' Lonnie, I think I heard Lennox say that he's making a pledge to the center. I assume that's important to you.
Lonnie: You know what? It's so tremendous. What Lennox has done--he's actually one of the first athletes--he is the first athlete, actually, to come forward and to pledge a large amount of money. I don't know if Lennox wants me to tell how much money he has pledged, but it's a large sum of money to help complete this center. And both Muhammad and I are very grateful for this, but it says a lot about the man, because Lennox is about giving back, and he believes in what we're doing, and I think he sees the need for it. And as he said, Muhammad has sort of set the example for him, but we are ever so thankful to him for doing that. And I hope he does take the lead and he does inspire others to do the same.
Tavis: Lennox, I'm sorry, you were gonna say something?
Lennox: Yeah, you know, I think it's important for everybody to really invest in the center, because it just--it's just so positive. And what Muhammad Ali's trying to do with the center is so great, I mean, and, you know, for all those athletes that have seen him on TV and appreciate him and love him should definitely put some money forward for this center and make it become a quick reality.
Tavis: Lennox, thank you for your phone call. I appreciate it. You're gonna miss this magic trick. I know the champ's got some magic for me, but thanks for your phone call, Lennox. I appreciate it.
Lennox: Tell him to keep throwing those punches, too.
Lonnie: Thanks, Lennox.
Tavis: So, Howard Bingham, before I get the champ--I know he's got some magic for me. What's the best thing about hanging out with Ali all of these years?
Howard: Well, it's been a really great honor for him to know me all these years.
Tavis: Yeah. Your photos are gonna be all throughout this, and I can't imagine there being a center without your photos.
Lonnie: Isn't that interesting?
Howard: Matter of fact, it will be a Howard Bingham gallery.
Tavis: A Howard Bingham gallery inside the center.
Howard: Inside the center. And, you know, it's also my life also, because I've been knowing him ever since 1962, and so it's photographs from 1962 on up.
Lonnie: But let me tell you, Tavis, the gallery will feature Howard's photos, but it will also feature photographs from other people, ‘cause we'll have exhibits. Because one of the ways that you can learn about other people's culture is through photography, through picture. And there's so much that has been done on different races, different cultures in different places in the world, and that's one way we think that we can sort of bring this community, this global community, closer together with this gallery.
Tavis: Champ, you got some magic for me? I know you got--you always got something for me. Uh-oh.
Lonnie: Keep your eye on the red handkerchief.
Tavis: Keep your eye on the red handkerchief, OK. I'm watchin' this. The amazing Ali.
Uh-oh.
Ohh! I got--
Lonnie: He won't deceive you.
Tavis: You're not supposed to give the trick away, Ali. But, see, he's so honest, he has to pull off the fake thumb. He won't even let the joke be a good joke. He's gotta tell you the truth, ‘cause he's just that honest. Lonnie, congratulations on the new center. Nice to see you. Nice to have you. Champ, nice to see you. Mr. Bingham...
Howard: it was your honor--
Tavis: It was my honor to have you.
Lonnie: Nothing ever changes.
Tavis: Nothing ever changes with Howard Bingham. Up next on the program, Dr. Ian Smith, our medical contributor on our radio show and to Men's Health magazine, has written a new novel called 'The Blackbird Papers.' Stay with us.
Back to August 4, 2004