E-mail a friendJada Pinkett Smith
airdate August 23, 2004
Multi-talented Jada Pinkett Smith juggles acting, singing, producing, directing, motherhood and married life. The Baltimore native got her break in the TV series, A Different World, and segued into diverse film roles. She's resisted being stereotyped into the usual roles allotted for Black actresses, with film credits that include Jason's Lyric, The Nutty Professor, Matrix and her latest, Collateral. She also fronts the band, Wicked Wisdom.
Jada Pinkett Smith
Tavis: I'm delighted to welcome to the show two of the terrific stars from one of this summer's most acclaimed and best films, I might add. Tom Cruise and Jada Pinkett Smith star in Michael Mann's thriller 'Collateral,' ha ha ha, which is, I might add, which is beautifully set. I have never seen a movie that makes L.A. look so good. Michael Mann is the bomb and then some. It makes L.A. look awfully beautiful. The movie also includes a fantastic performance by our friend Jamie Foxx, on this show not long ago. I got to tell you though, I never, ever thought I would buy Tom Cruise playing a really, really bad guy. But, hey, if Tom is selling, I'm buying. Here are scenes from the trailer for 'Collateral.'
Annie: You know, if you'd just listened to me, we'd be all bogged down in traffic right now. You would have made yourself an extra 5 bucks.
Max: Yeah, well, you keep that 5 bucks. Buy you something special. Mm mm mm mm mm mm.
Annie: Thanks, Max.
[Max sighs]
Vincent: Hey.
Max: Come on, I'll take you.
Vincent: I got 5 stops to make. What's your name?
Max: Max.
Vincent: Max, I'm Vincent. I'll meet you in the alley behind the building.
Max: Oh, lord! What the hell?! You killed him?
Vincent: Red light, Max.
Max: Hold on, hold on.
Vincent: Man, you were gonna drive me around tonight and never be the wiser, but we're into plan B.
Tavis: Tom, Jada, nice to see you both. Nice to have you both here.
Jada Pinkett Smith: Well, thank you for having us.
Smith: It's hard, you know, with that face and that smile. You know what I mean? It's hard.
Tavis: How do you--I want to get to Jada in a second, 'cause I read a little bit about how Jada prepared to play her role, spent some time--We'll talk about that in a second, but I'm afraid to ask how you prepared to play a role like this. Where'd you learn this craft?
Tom Cruise: You know, it really is just looking at an antisocial personality. You know, just like I approach any character, you work on the history of the character. You just start building up. I did, you know, weapons training. I've never fired a live round, but you look at, you know, just really study the antisocial personality, and I just kind of built it up from there just like I approach any character.
Tavis: Antisocial. You could've come, um--You could've come helped my director, if you wanted, just hang out with somebody. Just teasin', Jonathan. Now he's givin' you a bad shot.
Smith: Exactly.
Cruise: The camera's gotta start out like this.
Tavis: Yeah. Um, what got me, though, when I first saw this, was the look. The first thing that got my attention was the look. And, um...I was, like, "Wow. That's interesting." Who-whose idea was that?
Cruise: Michael Mann. Uh, I sent him a bunch of photos, and he just kept working on different colors. And I--You know, he came up with the concept of rough trade in a good suit.
Tavis: Mm-hmm...
Cruise: So...how do we do that? You know. And, uh...he just came on that color. Then the hair/makeup people did a great job working on that and developing it.
Tavis: Yeah. So, Jada, back to what I said earlier. How'd you prepare--
Cruise: Yeah, let's talk to Jada.
Tavis: Let's talk to Jada.
Smith: I wanted to also make a point. The choice that was made for Tom's hair. You know, what I really liked about it was seeing Tom--when you first see Tom on the screen and it takes you totally into a new space. You don't feel as though you're looking at Tom Cruise, which is what I really liked in seeing the movie for the first time, 'cause I've worked with him. You know. And I'm, like, "OK, there's Tom." But it just totally took me out of that whole Tom Cruise space and it took me into, "Oh...this is gonna be a different experience." You know what I mean? This is a different ride. You know? And that's what I really--just me watching it, personally. I just wanted to add my 2 cents.
Cruise: Ha ha ha!
Tavis: Thank you.
Smith: Yes, Tavis. Ha ha ha!
Tavis: Now that Jada has deposited her 2 cents...
Smith: I don't know if anybody cares, but you know...I just thought...I found that to be really interesting. But as you were saying...
Tavis: As I was saying...yeah. Your role...'Cause you were in this as well.
Smith: Yeah.
Tavis: Yeah. So, uh...
Smith: Well, I--You know, actually, Michael had me, um, hang out with the prosecuting attorney and, uh--which was really interesting. I spent the day with her to just see what kind of workload she had and, you know, why she takes cabs to work versus, you know, driving a car and why wear a skirt versus pants, and--'Cause that was a big issue with Michael and I, like...you know. "Why the skirt, Michael?"
Tavis: You guys had rounds about this?
Smith: We didn't have rounds, 'cause at the end of the day, when Michael Mann says he wants something, you go..."Right."
Cruise: The sh...s?
Smith: The sh...s.
Cruise: Running in those heels?
Smith: Right. And you--you know, versus--I was, like, "Michael, let me take the heels off."
Tavis: Now, let me--I'm curious, though. Why--If you can share this, why did he insist on the skirt over the pants?
Smith: Um...
Tavis: I'm always tryin' to get in Michael Mann's head.
Smith: He felt as though there was a certain vulnerability that a woman has. A man can't wear a skirt. You know what I mean? A--a man can wear pants. And he--he just thought--
Cruise: The Scottish, they wear skirts.
Smith: Yeah, they wear skirts.
Cruise: Ha ha ha! Not like you--They don't look like you in that.
Smith: Right.
Tavis: They wear skirts in West Hollywood. That's not the issue, though.
Smith: Right. So he felt as though there was a certain strength that a woman has, you know, in a courtroom, to walk in there with this skirt on. You know what I mean? And there's a certain power that a woman has to be able to show her legs and...you know. So I was, like, "OK." I was, like, "All right, Michael. I'm all aboard with that." Ha ha!
Tavis: Whether it's skirt or pants, though, what I find fascinating about the roles that you choose to play,and maybe I'm missing something here, but to the best of my recollection, you don't fancy playing roles where women are diminutive or weak. And there are all those roles out there. You know. When you're in Hollywood, there's a complexity of characters that one could play. But you are drawn to these characters where you are like, pardon the phrase, settin' it off.
Smith: Well, the thing about it is that I think...I think...I'm attracted to those roles because I think most of the women that I know set it off...you know, in their own way. Um, you know, whether it's--I know some very, just beautiful mothers that--that, you know, just--that's their life--motherhood and--and the many hats that they have to wear. And my friends set it off, you know, in that way.
So it's not just about also, you know, the businesswoman and being able to go out there and rob banks and--like I have done, or kick butt. But it's just--I think it's important to always show the strength that--that women have, because there's not a woman that I know that isn't strong in her own way. Um...and so to me, that's just extremely important.
Tavis: Tom, you have a way of...
Cruise: But I have to say also, when you look at that scene--The scene in the beginning of the movie's one of my favorite scenes in the movie, between her and Jamie. In the taxi. It is a huge accomplishment for the actors, because that moment is so important. The movie doesn't work if that moment doesn't work.
And what Jada's brought to it, that level of, you know, you see--You know, when I saw it, I just--You totally believe her character coming in and his character and that they're both in separate worlds, yet somehow at a certain moment they connect, and it works in a way that I think that I feel when--I felt it when I saw it, that, as a man, when I connect with a woman, it feels like that. I got the emotion of it. It feels like--for whatever reason, we're from different worlds or something, but something happened there, and it's so subtle. And we try to accomplish those things in movies of a man meeting a woman, and, uh, it just really worked in that.
Smith: It felt authentic.
Cruise: You know, you see where she starts and where she ends up at the end of that scene, and it's like 4 minutes, and yet it has an impact.
Tavis: That's what got my attention about it, and I wonder--Clearly when you're an A-list star, you can sit down with Michael Mann. He's the director, but you can sit down and say, "Michael, these are my thoughts." And you guys have script changes and, you know, et cetera, et cetera, input on the project. I wondered when I watched it whether or not Mann was taking a risk to have a scene that was that long at the beginning of a film, without much action--But the action was great in terms of the conversation--But I wonder was it just me, or did either of you think that, "He's taking a real risk here," what you describe as authentic. It was, but it was 4 minutes at the beginning of a film. I haven't seen that in a long time.
Cruise: Well, here's the thing: it's--the risk--and, you know, I mean, I talked to Michael. One of the things, you know, when I read the script, I was going through it, is, like, the risk is--you wanna say you know what you need to accomplish with that scene for the story and for the characters, and the risk is--I mean, you've gotta forget about time, how long it takes. You can't say, "Well, this scene should be 2 minutes." He has--He's just--He's a great--
Tavis: But our attention span ain't 4 minutes. That's what I'm trying to--
Cruise: But you know what? There's reasons why you don't hold the attention. I mean, it's basically that you're not communicating, or the scene isn't communicating, and it's not--you know, it's not working. You know, that's that magic that you go for and what Michael wanted to accomplish with that scene. And I remember the early conversations. Both of us are like, "Well, if this doesn't work, you know, we don't have the rest of the picture." If her character--You know, "If Jada isn't firing on all cylinders, we don't have a movie." So it was like, "OK, girl. You're up. You're up, girl!"
Smith: If Jamie and I don't make that silent connection, then nobody cares that he's coming for me at the end of the movie.
Cruise: And you see how he directed it and what he accomplished, and he was so excited, I have to tell you. He was so excited--I was on my way in to work--that he, literally while he's shooting--I remember he called me from the set and said, "Are you here yet? I just got to"--You know, I was just gonna go into hair and makeup, and he said, "You gotta come to the set. You gotta see Jada's closeup. You gotta see what--" You know, because he knew at that point, we got the scene.
Smith: I remember that night, and I was like, "What is he so excited about?"
Cruise: Man, I tell you, and he was funny. But you know what? It's also--for an audience seeing a movie, there's a lot of things that we talk about--you know, Michael and I talked about, and I'm sure you talked about it--things that you want to inform the scene or you hope the audience gets. You don't know until an audience sees it, and each audience--It's a subjective experience, so you don't know what the audience is gonna walk away with.
Tavis: Great setup, 'cause I want to come to that very point, about the fact that moviemaking is a very subjective business if ever there was one. When Will was on this set--Will as in Will Smith, Jada husband.
Smith and Cruise: Ha ha ha!
Smith: My baby daddy.
Tavis, chuckling: Yeah, your baby daddy. When Jada baby daddy was here, just a few weeks ago, I asked Will about--I'm trying--Oh, I know what it was. I asked him about the pressure, if in fact he felt any, because his movie, 'I, Robot,' came out after 'Spider-Man.' And I said to Will, "'Spider-Man' done put some heat on you, 'cause you better come with it, and you better come correct with ‘I, Robot,'" because Will we see every summer with a blockbuster, and, you know, 'Spider-Man' now is like, you know--I'm like, "Will, what you got in ‘I, Robot'?" Obviously the numbers will tell--
Cruise: And he brought it.
Tavis: He brought it, and 'I, Robot' has made some money. I raise that because--
Cruise: It's made a lot of money.
Tavis: I raise that, Tom, because I wonder whether or not you feel pressure when you sign on to a project that you know is supposed to be the "summer blockbuster" and how you process that.
Cruise: Well, I wouldn't categorize 'Collateral' as a summer blockbuster.
Smith: Yeah.
Cruise: So it's not even in that arena. The pressure I feel is to do my work and to do it the best that I can, to be professional, to--You know, and it's--I like that--that feeling of, you know, like before a race. You know, I used to race cars, and, you know, there's that adrenaline, that excitement, that--that before you start something and it's the excitement of being creative.
Smith: Right.
Cruise: Where are gonna go with this? So it's--You know what? I just--I focus on the work and--
Smith: And that's a real dangerous place. Will and I were talking about that, because I was trying to explain to him, you know, I said, "Baby, don't get caught up in the hype. Don't forget that you're an artist first." You know, because really, I mean, it's a machine, and what happens is that if you lose focus on why we're in this business in the first place--I mean, we love to entertain, and it's great to have blockbusters and all that. That's all great, but at the end of the day, it has to be about creating, it has to be about the art.
Tavis: So how do you process though when you wake up a week or two later and 'The New York Times' says, "Mr. Cruise didn't deliver in this film, that it wasn't the kind of blockbuster that we're used to?"
Cruise: Well, they've never said that. Ha ha ha! They never said that!
Tavis: I didn't read that!
Smith: And I mean, you never--And about the critics, you can never really focus on the critics, because they're very suppressive, you know, and the bottom line is that it is a great movie, and there's no denying that. There's just no denying that. I never read one--You know, and this was like one of the first movies that I could actually just pick up any, you know, article and read about it. 3 stars out of 4 every time. 3 1/2, 4 stars. It's critical acclaim, so, you know, we delivered. That's just the bottom line. We delivered a great movie.
Tavis: OK, let me flip this. I'm not arguing that. Let me flip this and come at this another way. Has there ever been a movie--And you can be honest. It's just the three of us here, you know. Uh, ever done a movie, either of you, both of you, where you really wanted this movie to do well. I understand you're an artist first, but don't sit here and tell me you ain't never done a film that you wanted to become a hit and it didn't hit the way you wanted it to.
Cruise: Tavis, make no mistake about it, I want every film to do well, every single one I make.
Tavis: Is there one that you really wanted to do well though that didn't live up to what you thought or hoped for that particular project?
Cruise: You know, it really--My goal is--And you go in and you say, hey, truly, let the studio make their money back and make some money, because the point of it is is that I get to go out and do it again, and the thing is is that I've been in a fortunate position where I've never lost a studio money.
Smith: Never.
Cruise: Ever in my career.
Tavis: I ain't mad at you, Tom.
Smith: Never! Never, ever!
Tavis: I never lost a studio money, ever!
Smith: Never!
Cruise: And you know what? It's a lucky position, but it's like you go, OK, they're gonna give me the money to go make the movie. We're gonna get together, and for us, it's a creative bonanza, because then we want to get everyone together, and there is something that happens when we all get together, and we're being creative and you're working and you don't--you know, there is--We have so much money to make the movie. We have so much money to, you know--so much time, so it's a battle of, you know, you want to make it as cheaply as possible, but you don't want to compromise the quality.
It is all about the quality of the movie and the investment in that story and are we interested in this story, are we interested--You know, I was, you know--I wanted to work with the actors that we had, you know, and I wanted to work with Michael Mann, and then you go, "OK, they let us do it. Let's--" You know, you just hope the studio makes their money back.
Tavis: Speaking of the actors, Jamie Foxx was brilliant in this. I want to run a clip of a scene that features Jamie and talk about how it was like--what it was like actually working with Jamie on this particular project. He's got so much stuff going on these days. Here's a scene featuring Jamie Foxx.
Vincent: Still breathing? Yeah, we got to make the best of it. Improvise. Adapt to the environment. Darwin...'I Ching.' Whatever, man. We got to roll with it.
Max: 'I Ching.' What are you talking about, man? You threw a man out of a window.
Vincent: I didn't throw him. He fell.
Max: But what did he do to you?
Vincent: What?
Max: What did he do to you?
Vincent: Nothing. I only met him tonight.
Max: You just met him once, and you kill him like that?
Vincent: What, I should only kill people after I get to know them?
Max: No, man.
All: Ha ha ha!
Tavis: Tom, I want to know how long you've known Jamie. I've known Jamie for years. I know Jada's known Jamie for years. So let me start this conversation, if I can, with you.
Cruise: He just wants to talk to you, Jada.
Smith: Oh, trust me. He doesn't just want to talk to me. Ha ha! He don't want to just talk to me.
Cruise: So I love that shirt, Jada.
Smith: Ha ha!
Cruise: You look great, Jada. Anyway, let me just ask you a question, Jada. Will won't get upset with me looking at you.
Tavis: I guess I played myself on that, didn't I? M-m-memo to Tavis: never tell a star who's never lost a Hollywood studio money, "I want to talk to Jada first."
Cruise: Ha ha! No, I don't blame you. I like talking to Jada, too, you know. Ha ha!
Tavis: Having said that, you--you've known Jamie for a long time, maybe even longer than I have. Is it just me, or has Jamie, like, blown up? And when I say blown up, I don't mean in terms of his celebrity appeal, but I mean in terms of the roles that this guy is doing and the fact he's pulling this stuff off in such a believable sort of way.
Smith: Well, you know, I think Jamie just got really focused.
Tavis: I keep thinking of Wanda.
Smith: You know? Exactly. But even then, I could tell how talented, you know, Jamie Foxx is, you know, and it's just about the artist becoming focused in order to really dive in one's self and be able to pull out all of those jewels and gems, you know, within the creative box that we have, and Jamie just decided to do that, and he's been very, very, um, fortunate to really get roles that he has--you know, that the--he has a chance to show his talent, you know. 'Cause that's another, you know, task right there to just be able to get the roles where you can really show--where you can really shine.
Tavis: I saw some of the trailers from the Ray Charles flick, and he's phenomenal in that. How good is this guy, Tom?
Cruise: He's great. He is a great artist, and you look at, uh, the range, you know. You just--you just see it. It's there. I mean, even when you talk about Wanda, you know, you see that kind of talent.
Tavis: What you know about Wanda?
Cruise: Huh?
Tavis: Tom was watching 'In Living Color' back in the day?
Smith: Uh, yeah!
Tavis: I guess. OK.
Smith: You know what's funny? You know--No. You know what's funny about Tom? You know what's funny about Tom? Tom has been such a huge star for a long time. People forget that Tom is like really down. You know what I mean? We forget that Tom is really down. I sit, and I watch people react to Tom and go, "You do that? You kiddin' me. But you're Tom Cruise. You go to baseball games? Are you serious?" It's like yeah. He's just, you know--He's a regular dude.
Tavis: I'm glad you said that, Jada. Now back to Mr. Cruise.
Cruise: Ha ha!
Smith: Tavis, behave! Behave, 'cause you know you don't want me going off on this 'Tavis Smiley' show.
Tavis: I don't want you to set it off up in here. Not up in here. Ha ha! Let me ask about--I mentioned--I started at the top of this conversation by talking about the fact that--
Cruise: To Jada about Jamie.
Tavis: I'm sorry, Tom.
Cruise: No, that's all right. That's cool.
Tavis: Please...
Cruise and Smith: Ha ha!
Tavis: Forgive me, forgive me, forgive me. I'll never do it again. I'll never do that again. I got the memo from myself to myself. Um, you're both A-list celebrities, and Jamie, to this conversation, is on his way up there and getting there really fast. What do you--What's the most significant challenge for you in terms of how people perceive you when you hit that A-list?
Smith: Well, people loose sight that you're a regular person, you know what I mean, that you like to just have fun in life and you do regular things and you like hanging out with your kids and you swim in the pool, and, you know, people really look at you like you're some type of Martian. You know, when you go to eat, it's like--
Cruise: You and Will are very charismatic people.
Smith: Me and Will? What about you?
Cruise: It's--You know what? Here's the thing that--It's a whole--I don't really have perspective on that. I just, uh--because I just live my life, and it's a thing where...you know, I don't think about A-list. And you talked about--It really--You know, when you look at people who care, when you look at Jada, you look at Will, you look at, you know, Jamie, Michael Mann, you know, uh, Mark Ruffalo, who's coming on your show. I mean, just the people--It's like you just care about the work. It really--All of these other things that happen are things that you go, "Wow, thank you." But the real pleasure is in being able to do it.
Tavis: I saw you--Let me tell you this. I saw--I was on vacation last week. I don't normally get a chance to watch these entertainment shows all the time, between the radio and the TV show that I do every day, but I was on vacation last week, and I saw some footage from...it must've been 'Access Hollywood,' and you were at a restaurant, one of my favorite restaurants, here in town a couple of weeks ago, on your motorcycle. You remember this?
Cruise: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Tavis: You were at this restaurant. You'd ridden there with one of your boys on your motorcycle, and you come out of the restaurant, and there's paparazzi everywhere. So, you take off your helmet--Before you put your helmet on, you turn to the cameras, you say, "OK, guys, get all the shots you want." They take all these shots. Cameras are clicking. Fans are coming out. You're signing autographs. You're taking pictures. And then you got on your motorcycle, and you asked them very kindly, "does everybody--Do you have what you want? Please, when we pull out of here, don't follow us. Don't chase us down the street. Don't flash at me when I'm trying to get on the street." You asked them very nicely, and they obliged. They let you leave, and you took off.
When I saw that moment--and I don't mean to be morbid here, or macabre--I thought about Princess Diana at that moment. I was, like, it's Tom Cruise saying to them, "Please don't chase me down the street on the motorcycle and cause an accident and somebody'll die or get hurt." I mean, that's how I perceived that scene. It kind of struck me when I saw that. Maybe I'm going too deep. But you asked these folk just to back off--"I gave you what you wanted."
Cruise: Yeah. Yeah. I find it's better just to talk to them. It's interesting, because a lot of these people I've seen--there was a time--because I've been, you know, 21 years since 'Risky Business,' that I was kind of dealing with. And I finally--they're just, you know--I like people. I like talking to people. If they want a photograph and stuff like that, I understand. You just find--"Hey, that's cool. You want it. We'll sign some autographs." And it's interesting, because I've seen these people. We kind of know the--
Smith: You know them.
Cruise: And then, it's better to just communicate about it, and, uh, and I gotta tell you, the cool ones, it's, like, 99% of the time--
Smith: They respect you.
Cruise: Cool. And then there's just that 1% that'll go, "Well, I'm gonna chase you down in my car." And then you--
Tavis: Mr. Cruise, I hate to do this. I'm out of time, but I wanted to tell you that first. I'm out of time, Mr. Cruise.
Cruise: We're out of here? This went like that, Tavis.
Tavis: That means you gotta come back. You've gotta come back. Mr. Cruise, thank you. Tom. Jada...
Cruise: And Jada. Mr. Cruise...and Jada.
Smith: Thank you.
Tavis: That's our show for tonight. As always, you can catch me on the radio on NPR. I'll see you back here next time on PBS. Thanks for watching. Keep the faith.
All: Ha ha ha!
Back to August 23, 2004