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Tavis: And, speaking of influential former Congressmen, from Georgia, Bob Barr. Former Congressman out of Georgia for four terms, now the author of a new book called 'The Meaning of Is: The Squandered Impeachment and Wasted Legacy of William Jefferson Clinton.' Mr. Barr, nice to see you, as well.

Bob Barr: Great to be with you all.

Tavis: Glad to have you on. Let me start, since I mentioned the book, I can't...I don't want to wait too long to get to this. I'm looking at this book, another book, respectfully, about Bill Clinton. Here you are at the Republican Convention about to nominate a guy, re-nominate a guy, for a second term. Y'all can't let this go, can you?

Barr: Well, it's American history. It's an important part of our history. Bill Clinton just came out with 957 pages, count ‘em, and he apparently can't let it go, either. So we're taking him on.

Tavis: I ain't mad at you (Inaudible) as you can. Let me ask you, J.C., what do you expect out of this? I made the joke...-uh, not so funny joke--about the President being re-nominated. We know that's going to happen. Beyond that, anything that we should be looking for here? These things are so scripted these days.

Watts: They are. They're a lot of production, as we saw at the Democratic Convention, you'll see it here. But I think the President does get a format to talk about what has happened over the last three years, to frame that issue, put it in the proper context: that evil people want to do evil things to the United States of America, and we should take them seriously. And I think he also has intentions to talk about the next four years of this...uh, of this second term. And I think those issues are very important for a lot of people, and I think he'll be able to frame those issues in a real way this week.

Tavis: Mr. Barr, to the extent that John Kerry missed an opportunity...and obviously, when you get a chance to Monday-morning quarterback...pardon the pun, J.C., be a Monday-morning quarterback, and in our case, a Monday-night quarterback...uh, you get a chance to talk about what the other guy didn't do and go at it another way. I'm looking at the floor, for example. It's just my own personal bias. The setting here looks a whole lot better than what the Democrats did. Michael Deaver taught Republicans how to put on a convention. Their set...it's more intimate. That whole design looks better. President Bush will come out Thursday night with an extended stage--out talking, basically, with delegates surrounding him. He's going to look great on television Thursday night. I say that because, um, you get a chance to see what they didn't do, what they did wrong and do it right. What did John Kerry and the Democrats miss a chance to do that the Republicans can take advantage of this week?

Barr: John Kerry didn't talk about the future. John Edwards didn't talk about the future. They really missed a tremendous opportunity to lay out an agenda for the American people, as to why the American people ought to vote for them for the next four years. They talked about the past. Uh, and that's not why people vote, uh, for either an incumbent President or a new candidate for President. President Bush is not going to be reelected because of what he's done. He's going to be reelected because of his vision for the next four years. John Kerry didn't set that out at the Democratic Convention. I think George Bush will here.

Tavis: I guess the question, J.C., is whether or not George Bush...and I can obviously, uh, predict your answer. But the question for many Americans, obviously, is whether or not George Bush ought to be re-elected. There are still folk...a lot of folk...who have not found peace with this President on his credibility about the war in Iraq. What say you to people who still do not trust the reasons he gave us, why we got into war with Iraq in the first place?

Watts: Well, I, I, know...Tavis, I don't think that people will hold it against this President for the fact that we're there. Weapons of mass destruction is an issue that people have debated. They didn't have them; we haven't found them. I'm still not so sure that they're not there--that something won't come up at some point in time. But, but, I don't...I think the, the greater issue is, do we believe there are evil people out there that want to do evil things to America? The President takes that seriously, and I think people, you know...I don't think they, they think that he lied to the country or that he misled the nation, as Senator Kerry has said. I don't think he did that. I think he took the evidence, the facts that were before him. He made a decision to go to war, try to tear down those terrorist networks. I think he's done that. I...people may disagree with him, but Tavis, in the end, I do think people will respect you if, if, if you are a man of your word, if you follow through what you say you're going to follow through with. And, you can prove that you really do think you're doing the best for the country, which I think he did.

Tavis: To your point, John Kerry, the other day, said very clearly that with the evidence that the President had...President Bush, that is...had when he made the decision to go into Iraq, Mr. Kerry seemed to suggest that he would have done the same thing based upon that information. Where he takes exception to the President is that--the way the President mishandled the authority that Congress gave him. But just to that first point, uh, if you've got a guy who's running against you saying, 'I would have done the same thing with that information,' does that neutralize any way the argument here?

Watts: Well, I, it's saying, 'I want it both ways.' I mean, it's kind of like in athletics--and I saw a movie once where the, where the ballplayer said to the General Manager, he said, 'When I call it a business, you call it a sport. And when I call it a sport, you call it a business.' So that, that's kind of the way Senator Kerry is. You know, he wants to have it both ways. Based on what the President had to deal with at the time he had to deal with it, he made the decision to go. And Senator Kerry and Senator Edwards both had that same information. They voted to support it.

Tavis: Congressman Barr, one could make the case...and I think with some credibility...that we are not altogether a safer nation. A few years later, you all chose this city as the backdrop for the President, one, to make a case that he's stronger on defense, can better fight the war on terrorism. I think one could argue credibly that we are not altogether a safer nation. Number one. You can certainly make the argument that we ain't loved the world over. And one can make the argument, thirdly, that it's just a matter of time before they attempt to hit us again. Witness all the security around this building and all over this city. Why should one consider voting for a guy...we're talking about the future, since you want to talk about the future...why vote for a guy who doesn't make you feel safer? You still aren't sure that you're not going to get attacked again. Uh, you don't trust him. What...why vote for him?

Barr: Well, first of all, uh, I think we are much safer today than we were...

Tavis: (Overlap) You believe that?

Barr: (Overlap) Oh, I actually do

Tavis: Okay.

Barr: And I do a lot of traveling, Tavis, like you do and like J.C. does. I'm in airports across this country every single week, somewhere different.

Tavis: Right.

Barr: Uh, and I've seen TSA. Now, they do a lot of things I don't agree with, you know. Their profiling, uh, this color-coding system. I don't agree with that. But in terms of making sure that those planes are safer, uh, we are much safer today than we were before, even though also, we don't yet have a fully functioning, uh, terrorist database network for our intelligence community. We have a much better system than we did on September 11, 2001. So we've made great strides. We are better coordinating the intelligence. We're getting better intelligence. Uh, our physical security, particularly at airports, is much better. Uh, so, are we completely safe? No. Will we ever be completely safe? No. But we are much better off today than we were on September 11, 9/11, 2001.

Watts: And Tavis, I want to add to that. We have to consider, you know, President's been...Bush has been in for three and a half years. You can go back to President Clinton, back to Bush 41, um, back to Ronald Reagan. Over the last 20, 25 years...and I talked about this because of Oklahoma City in 1995, what we saw there...lost 168 people. We were nowhere near, in 2001, where we should have been in terms of homeland security. We got hit. It raised the conscience level of everybody, and now we're putting some things in place that I do think we're better off today than we were five years ago. But we've got a lot more work that needs to be done.

Tavis: I almost felt sorry for the Republicans, J.C., when you announced a year or two ago, a couple years ago, that you were going to leave Congress. You were the only African American member of the Republican Party in Congress, as I mentioned earlier, the highest-ranking African American ever as Chair of the Republican Conference at the time. Um, have they made any progress since you departed? Clearly, nobody else has been elected to Congress as a Republican. But, overall, with their outreach on the diversity front, I know at this convention, Republicans have doubled the number of delegates they had here four years ago. Are they making progress steadily enough?

Watts: Tavis, we have. And you and I have talked about this on your radio show. Are we where we need to be? By no means are we. However, in 2000, I said I wanted to double the number of minority delegates. We didn't get to double, but, uh, we're about 70 percent higher than we were in 2000. I think the gains are being made on a state, local, and county level. We don't have any Americans of African decent in the U. S. House and the U. S. Senate who are Republicans. But, you know, state legislators, Ohio, uh, um, Maryland, Lieutenant Governors, both of them, um, Missouri, Colorado, Michigan, Iowa, North Carolina, South Carolina, gains are being made on a local, state, and on a county level. That's the way to do it, because, you're building your house now from the ground up rather than doing it from the top down. And so, I'm optimistic. Again, we're not where we need to be, but we've done a lot of work in that area, and we've seen some positive results.

Tavis: We've got just about a minute and a half to go here. How ugly is this campaign going to get on the other side of Labor Day? The President said that these 527s, these independent advocacy groups, ought to all stop what they're doing. But he has not come out and condemned these supposed attacks against John Kerry. I got a sense this thing's going to get real ugly and it's going to be real close between now and November.

Barr: I think it's going to be close. It's somewhat comical to watch these guys. They're being hoisted on their own (inaudible). They've passed this campaign finance, so-called, reform legislation, which basically created these alternative groups like 527s, and now they're whining about it. It's sort of funny to watch. Uh, but it's going to...it's going to be a very close race, very, very hard fought race. Hopefully it'll stay clean, but it's going to be a tough race and very close, right down to the wire.

Tavis: What are you keeping your eye on in terms of what can make the difference, as you see it, between now and November?

Barr: A lot of it will depend on the economy. Uh, every, every election cycle that's the same. The jury's still out on that. People are not, uh, uh, the, the, that vast middle group here that haven't made up their minds, the undecided. They're not going to do so until probably two weeks, ten days out from the election. And they're going to do it, I think, based largely on security and economic factors.

Watts: One thing we all agree on, it will be close.

Tavis: That it will be. It will be very close. Bob Barr, former Congressman from Georgia, four terms in the House, authored the new book, 'The Meaning of Is: The Squandered Impeachment and Wasted Legacy of William Jefferson Clinton.' And former Congressman from Oklahoma, J.C. Watts. Nice to have you both on.

Watts: Thanks, Tavis.

Barr: Thank you, Tavis.

Tavis: That's our program for tonight. Day Two tomorrow, here, from Madison Square Garden. We'll see you then. Thanks for watching. Good night from New York City. And, as always, keep the faith.