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Tavis: He's the moderator of 'Meet the Press' on NBC. He's on Sunday, Managing Editor at NBC News, Tim Russert. Nice to see you.

Tim Russert: Great to be here, Tavis.

Tavis: How are you, man?

Russert: Alright.

Tavis: Last time I saw you, we were, where were we?

Russert: Making fools of each other on 'Jeopardy.'

Tavis: That's exactly right, making fools of ourselves on 'Jeopardy.' I-- somebody told me they're actually rerunning that.

Russert: Oh, please.

Tavis: God forbid, I know.

Russert: I'll pay them not to.

Tavis: We're gonna be embarrassed later this week on 'Jeopardy' again with a rerun of that thing. I, it was fun, though.

Russert: Yeah.

Tavis: You had done that, you had done that Celebrity 'Jeopardy' thing before, I had not done it before.

Russert: Couple years ago.

Tavis: Yeah.

Russert: The worst part is having your son in the audience.

Tavis: Yeah.

Russert: When you get something wrong and you see your son, you're like, ay...-

Tavis: --my dad.

Russert: This is my dad.

Tavis: Speaking of dad, everybody knows, if they didn't know, they're not reading the papers, or going to a bookstore. The book about you and your dad, 'Big Russ and Me,' is everywhere, congratulations; best seller, by the way.

Russert: Thank you, Tavis. You know, when I wrote it, I expected it to resonate with certain Americans who grew up in this way I did, Irish-Catholic neighborhood. But it just took off across the country. And I'd go to book signings and people would line up and say, 'Make it out to Big Tony, Big Irv, Big Leroy.' Everybody, everybody's got a big guy, you know? It's, it's an amazing generation.

Tavis: Yeah.

Russert: They survived the Depression, won World War II, and built the greatest middle class in the history of the world. Not bad.

Tavis: Yeah, yeah. Speaking of that generation, is it just me, or is it, or is this campaign being played to that generation? I raise this because obviously this whole conversation about Vietnam, and those who have ever lived through a war generation are really the center of focus of this campaign. I don't know about you, but are we ever gonna get past this Swift Boat issue?

Russert: You know, it's incredible to me.

Tavis: Yeah.

Russert: It's--if someone came to me and said in September of 2004 in a presidential race, Iraq would not be the centerpoint of the debate, I'd say you're crazy. How can you be debating Vietnam 35 years later when there's a war going on in Iraq? It is breathtaking. And it's clear to me at this Republican Convention, as we sit here in New York, that the president and his team would like to make this election a referendum on September 11th, and not on Iraq. And unless John Kerry can get this election back on the economy, back on Iraq, he's gonna have a very hard time, because the War on Terror is the one issue that this president seems to have a very tight control over.

Tavis: Let me ask you, ‘cause I've been fascinated to get to you just to ask this question, whether or not you think, just strategically, that this is, to some degree, John Kerry's fault. And by his fault, what I mean to suggest by that is that he decided of his own volition and free will to hitch his wagon, as it were, to his service in Vietnam. When you do that, everything is open for conversation, including your testimony before a House Committee. Did John Kerry hitch his wagon too much to his Vietnam service, and that's what's opened all this up?

Russert: John McCain warned him about that.

Tavis: Yeah.

Russert: Bob Dole warned him about that. Democrats now in hindsight say, 'Yes, we should've been more definitive at our convention about more than just his military service.' 'I'm John Kerry, reporting for duty.' The Democrats, the Kerry Democrats, were concerned that there's a perception that they're weak on defense, so they had to deal with that; neutralize it. But I think John Kerry did something else, that when we look back at this campaign is going to be very important. And that is when he said, even knowing what he knows now, he still would've voted to go to war with Iraq. It seems as if he had taken the issue of Iraq off the table because if you're going to engage the present, and you're gonna say, let's change Commander in Chiefs, people want to say, okay, George Bush sent us the war, and you? Me too. That's a real problem. And he's been having a hard time trying to tell the American people how he differs on Iraq from George W. Bush, and there's a lot of anxiety about Iraq throughout the country.

Tavis: Well, we have, we actually showed for the last 24 hours or so, last 48 hours now, been nuancing what the president said on your network two days ago, was that a significant statement when the president suggested on NBC that he didn't necessarily think the War on Terror was winnable?

Russert: It was an important statement because of this, if a Democrat had said it, can you imagine the reaction in this hall? The War on Terror is not winnable? What? Traitorous, eh? But George Bush quickly said, 'Well, I meant to say it was winnable, what I was only saying is there's no formal place to have a surrender ceremony because there's no formal government that we're taking on in terms of the War on Terror.' I think it's a one-day story. It's very unusual for George Bush to slip off message, but he did for that one day, and he went on the Rush Limbaugh show trying to get the conservative base back on board saying, 'Folks, that was a one day wonder, I'm okay.'

Tavis: I have always wanted to ask you, when you sit down, I want to get back to some issues here in just a second.

Russert: Sure.

Tavis: But just let me change gears for a second. I'm getting older now. I forget these things. When you prepare for your show on Sunday mornings, I'm always, I always marvel how on Monday morning, when I pick up the 'New York Times,' THEnewspaper, everybody is quoting what so and so said yesterday on NBC's "Meet the Press" to Tim Russert. So, like, do you go into the weekend attempting to make news for, for Sunday morning, for Monday morning papers?

Russert: It's part of it, but what I find, what I do is I read everything my guest has said in previous interviews or in speeches, editorial comments, interview comments. Last Sunday, I had Rudy Giuliani and Hillary Clinton. And I was determined with Rudy Giuliani to show him the Republican Party Platform and contrast it with his views on abortion, on, on gun control, stem cell research, gay rights; he disagrees with all of it. With Hillary Clinton it was important, I think, is she was criticizing the Republican's use of the Swift Boat ads, but what about some of the Democratic supported ads? MoveOn.org, 527 Independent Money. And just by the nature of those questions, it makes news. The lay-up question for each of them for me was 2008.

Tavis: Yeah.

Russert: Because they're both interested in running for president in 2008.

Tavis: Right.

Russert: And I said to Rudy, 'Why don't you, have you ever thought about running against Hillary in 2006 for the Senate? Because if you beat her, then all the conservative Republicans will say, 'Well, I know about abortion and gay rights, but he beat Hillary Clinton.''

Tavis: Right.

Russert: I said, 'You'd be the darling of the Right.' He said, 'I wouldn't be a darling to anybody. I'm from the, I'm from Brooklyn.'

Tavis: Yeah.

Russert: That's not a bad response.

Tavis: What--if I were an elected official in Washington, why in the heck would I come on your show? And I ask that respectfully because, I mean, other than the fact that you're killing the competition on ABC and CBS every Sunday morning, and other than the fact that I'm gonna get quoted in the 'New York Times,' it may not be something I wanted to be quoted on, but other than the fact, I'm gonna make some news, perhaps, by being on your show, why come on when I know that Tim Russert's gonna grill me?

Russert: Because I think there's acceptance amongst the people who want to be president that if you--you're going to have to make tough decisions, you're gonna have to answer tough questions. And that it may be risky 30 days, 40 days before an election, and it's hard getting presidential candidates to come on now, but in the early Primary season, they want to break out of that pack. They want to talk to the Democratic base, Republican base, they want to galvanize their supporters, appeal to the fundraisers. We have five million people watching, and the stakes are high. If you come on and don't do well, there's a buzz that lasts a long time. I'm the first to acknowledge it. But if you come to play, and you're prepared, and you say, this is who I am, and this is what I believe in, you can really set off an amazing positive view of yourself that can last quite a long time.

Tavis: This might be an unfair question, Tim, but it wouldn't be the first time I ask one, and probably won't be the last one. With regard to this election specifically, who do you think is doing a better job, if you can answer this, at spin? And I ask that because I covered the Democratic Convention, as did you, we're here in New York with the Republican Convention. And I had my own idea about who I think is just better about getting their message out.

Russert: Yeah, I don't think there's any comparison right now.And Democrats, I, as a reporter, I would tell you, Democrats are saying to me, 'Boy, those Republicans are amazing.'

Tavis: Yes, that's what I wanted to hear.

Russert: They, they are, they are so organized.

Tavis: I feel the same way.

Russert: They are so disciplined.

Tavis: Oh, yeah.

Russert: They're so tough, they're so--they have just flooded this field with everybody imaginable. Can you imagine, John McCain, Rudy Giuliani, Arnold Schwarzenegger, all at the podium saying to the American people, and most importantly to those swing voters in Scranton, PA, Green Bay, Wisconsin, Flint, Michigan, folks, you don't have to agree with us on every issue. There's only one that matters, the War on Terror. And you may not agree with George Bush and everything, and you may not even like some of the things, or the way, his style, or his mannerisms, but guess what? He's gonna keep you safe. It makes people think.

Tavis: Why, why are they better? Are they, are they, I mean, I, I'd hate to concede that one side is that much smarter than the other side. But they are better than the other side, why are they better?

Russert: They have more practice at it. And I think by nature, Republicans are more organized than Democrats. It's just who they are as personalities. I'll tell you a wonderful story. I know a woman who books musical acts, and she does them for both conventions. She said she got a phone call from the Republicans, one person, and said, 'I need 120 acts on these dates and these times. Send me the contract.' The Democrats called, 120 people called. They said, 'We need 120 groups;we don't know when we want them, but,' you know.

Tavis: Can you get them lined up for us?

Russert: And it was, like, 'No.' There is a difference in the Parties.

Tavis: Yeah.

Russert: There truly is. The fact is, when you win an election, it has to be the closest to a military operation that there exists in life. James Carville, who helped President Clinton win twice said, 'Every campaign needs a general. You need somebody in charge, someone who would take all the blame and get some of the credit, but you need someone to say, darn it, this is what we're gonna do today, execute.' You can't have committee meetings ‘cause you'll get nothing done.

Tavis: How's the media treated this president, specifically with regard to the war on Iraq? ‘Cause there are a lot of people across the country, I'm sure you hear, I hear from them all the time, who complain about the fact that the media just weren't aggressive enough. They didn't ask all the right questions. They weren't hard enough. We believe what Mr. Powell told us, we believe what the president told us. That the media just didn't do a good enough job of asking the right questions and getting the right answers months ago.

Russert: I think you have to come to some conclusion on that in your own mind. Did George Bush believe what he said, did Colin Powell believe what he said? I think they did. Bill Clinton told me Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. If you go back in October of 2002, a year after September 11th, 75 percent of the Senate and the House, Tavis, voted for the war. There was no real opposition within Congress for it. Now, I think we--I know I asked Dick Cheney, the Vice President, he said, 'We'll be greeted as liberators.' And I said, 'Mr. Vice President, what if you're wrong? What if there's a long sustained bloody resistance?' He said, 'Tim, you're wrong. We'll be greeted as liberators.' Now in the end he turned out to be incorrect. But at that point it was simply, I asked the question.

What could we have done differently? My guess is now, we'll never accept as gospel, the findings of the CIA. That used to be sacrosanct. If the Intelligence community said, 'He's got weapons of mass destruction,' everyone said, Democrats, Republicans, media, 'It's got to be true.' ‘Cause we don't have access to it. We can't confirm it independently. I think in the future we're gonna say, wait a minute, how do you know that? How are you gonna go before the world and the country and say you have the goods? Remember Iraq. I think it's a profound change in the way we're gonna conduct ourselves, and I think the way political leaders are gonna conduct themselves.

Tavis: Couple of quick questions, I'll let you get out of here. I know you got work you got to go do.

Russert: It's alright.

Tavis: Just not long ago here, we were reading on the cover of every magazine, 'Time' and 'Newsweek,' that Bush had a credibility gap and that this guy could not overcome this credibility gap, and if he couldn't overcome it, he wasn't gonna get reelected. Is that credibility gap still there?

Russert: It is...on the issues of the economy, 52 percent disapprove of the president. On the issue of right track, wrong track, 50 percent think the country's on the wrong track. On the issue of the war, nearly 50 percent say it wasn't worth it. So why is George Bush winning? Because on the War on Terror, they have credibility in him. And they like him, 55 to 27, they think he's a likeable easy-going guy. So if people agree with John Kerry on the issues, why aren't they voting for him? Because they don't know what he'll do about those issues. And what the president's gonna do is make his weakness his strength by saying, 'I know you may disagree with you. I may, I know you think that I may have been wrong about Iraq, and what made it in your mind a distraction, I may have miscalculated. But I'm a tough guy, and I'll always do what I think is right. I will not waffle.' And most people say, you know what? Maybe I'll give him the benefit of a doubt.

Kerry has to move very aggressively over the next month to say, wait a minute, folks, this is a big campaign about big issues, here's where I stand on Iraq, it's different than the president. Here's where I stand on the economy, it's different than the president. You got to give people a choice. They're not gonna make a change unless you give them a choice.

Tavis: That's why you're the moderator of 'Meet the Press,' because you're psychic. That was my exit question, what's Kerry got to do? You've already answered my second question, and that's why you're the man. Tim, nice to see you.

Russert: Tavis, a pleasure.

Tavis: Tim Russert of NBC's 'Meet the Press,' of course, every Sunday morning.