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Tavis: Christie Todd Whitman, as you know, is the former governor of New Jersey and, for that matter, the former head of the EPA in the Bush Administration. Glad to have her on the program. Governor, nice to have you on.

Christie Todd Whitman: It's a pleasure, good to see you again.

Tavis: Nice to see you again. And I'm glad to see you under these circumstances. I don't know how this--

Whitman: Me too.

Tavis: Yeah. I don't know how this happened, but who knew, I've got Tim Russert at the top of the show, you on the bottom half of this show, I just happened to be hosting this thing, the three of us are reunited again because the last time we were together was on that episode of 'Jeopardy.'

Whitman: 'Jeopardy.'

Tavis: Which I'm told they're rerunning this week across the country.

Whitman: Not again. That was the--I don't know about you, but I've never been so nervous in my life. It was worse than doing a debate.

Tavis: Yeah.

Whitman: Much worse than prepping for a debate ‘cause you can't prep.

Tavis: Well, it wasn't so bad for you, you won.

Whitman: Yeah, but I didn'to

Tavis: Yeah.

Whitman: All I could think of was, when--as it was happening, I was thinking, this isn't right.

Tavis: Yeah.

Whitman: I really don't know much. And then when we got to that question about nuclear, or brain scienceo

Tavis: Nuclear physics.

Whitman: Or nuclear physics, I was, likeo

Tavis: Yeah, I was there, I was lost.

Whitman: Please, somebody else, somebody else get the next question so I don't have to pick one.

Tavis: Well, actually, actually, just for the record for those who didn't see the, the, the Celebrity 'Jeopardy' episode, Christie Todd Whitman did win, and I came in second. So, I'm not gonna say anything about Tim Russert. But I came in second place. But the governor smoked both of us. She had more money than the two of us combined. Anyway, how you been?

Whitman: Very well.

Tavis: Good. How--what, what do you make of your Convention this year?

Whitman: I think they've been doing a very good job of presenting the face of the Convention, the Party, really. And that's what this is all about, as you know, they're not--they don't nominate the candidates, particularly not when you have the incumbent. But you had the first day where you had two of the premier people in the country to talk about what happened on 9/11, and to talk about war. And nobody can gainsay their experience or their credibility in those two issues in Rudy Giuliani and John McCain. They were extremely strong for the president and why they support him. I don't think the president could have asked for anything more. Last night you had that wonderful, wonderful American story of Arnold Schwarzenegger, and he looked like he was having a really good time with that. He was having fun. And then to have the, the Bush family, the girls and, and Laura, they look like real people. And that was an important part of it. And also for Laura to talk about the president from a perspective that no one else has. It was--so far they've--I think the Convention has done exactly what the president would hope for it to have done, and what the Party needs for it to have done.

Tavis: Let me talk to you about some environmental issues since you headedo

Whitman: Sure.

Tavis: Since you were the head of the EPA for, for some time. Why is it that on environmental issues, the Democrats seem to consistently have that in their back pocket, and you guys have not been able to wrestle that issue away from Democrats?

Whitman: Part of it is, I believe, because we have this, as a Party, we like to keep government as far away from individual decision making as possible in general. Not on everything, but in general.

Tavis: Generally speaking, right.

Whitman: In generally speaking.

Tavis: Yeah.

Whitman: And so even though we've done some good things when I was head of the EPA, we enacted major regulations that affected farmers and contractors who one would think are, that's the base of the Bush Administration. They wouldn't touch them, we went after them with non-road diesel, but we didn't want to talk about it because that meant more regulation. And so we're kind of schizophrenic.

We're really the Party, well, we are the Party that started the Environmental Protection Agency under Richard Nixon, started Conservation with Teddy Roosevelt, major, the major legislation, Clean Air Act. All those things passed under Republicans with strong Republican support, and yet we seem to be reluctant to push that forward because it's seen as being top down, heavy federal government imposition on states and localities.

Tavis: But how, how, with an issue like this, can that not be the case? I mean the fact of the matter is, companies that pollute are not going to volunteer, most of them, certainly, well, I'm not gonna say there aren't any good companies out thereo But most of these companies, you know, would love to be able to do what they want to do. They're not gonna, of their own volition, clean up and to do all the things that, that, that need to be done in the way it ought to be done. So isn't that a situation where you have to have government play an active role? That, that, you--You can't--the Republicans can't be right about this one. You got to get government involved if you're gonna make people respect the environment.

Whitman: Well, what I'm saying is that actually Republicans have been, they're the ones who created the Environmental Protection Agency, which is a regulatory body. And so everything that happens there has come from that. But I will say that I believe in the 30 years, 34 years since the agency was established and more than that, since we've had the real environmental movement, that we have seen a change in ethos in this country. And there's beginning to be a business, a recognition by business that what's good for the environment can also be good for them and their bottom line, and being conceived and seen as a good corporate citizen can also help sales and their reputation.

And while you need to have strong environmental regulations, and you need to have enforcement, we've got to stop measuring our environmental success by how many regulations did you write, and how many fines, fees, and penalties did you collect?

What we ought to be looking at is the air cleaner, is the water purer, is the land better protected, are people healthier? Because it doesn't matter how many laws you write, or how many fines you collect, if they're not moving us toward that goal, then that's not the answer. And we need to capture the innovation of business, and recognize it's okay to allow business to make a profit off doing the right thing. ‘Cause they're the ones that create jobs and allow people to be able to support their families.

So you have to have a combination, I believe. You can have voluntary programs, we should recognize those that work, we have a number of them that have worked. And when you see more and more businesses coming into Climate Leaders, for instance, that the agency runs, that they voluntarily agree to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions beyond anything that's required by law, and they report every year on that. And companies are coming to that voluntarily. So you need to have a, a balance of the two things. It's okay to encourage that other side.

Tavis: I don't, I don't want to be a policy wonk on this issue, but whether it's--whether there's a Democrat in the White House, or a Republican in the White House, persons of color still don't think, I think, by and large, that enough is being done to rid our country of environmental racism. doesn't matter who's in the White House, you still have people of coloro-

Whitman: Yeah, absolutely.

Tavis: Who are forced to live near where all of this mess takes place everyday. Why is that?

Whitman: I think it's a history of our, our manufacturing society that you created. You had these manufacturing facilities, you didn't have much environmental regulation when they were put in. They tend to be in areas--the areas that have grown up around them tend to be the poorer housing, poorer people that the prices are lower because they're next to these kinds of facilities, and it was easier to put them there, quite frankly.

In the old days, before you had environmental justice, and before you had the requirements now that we have at EPA--that you look at that issue of environmental justice so you don't overburden any particular community--it was easier. Developers could get permits because the community wasn't as organized and didn't have the political strength that the suburbs did to push back. And that's why you've had this enormously unfair burden put on so many communities. And what we are doing now, is you have to take--the agency has to take into account environmental justice. That's one of the analyses that need to be done when you're looking for site permits, and most states now are requiring that, which is long past due. But it's something we need to have happen.

Tavis: We have on this program tomorrow night, Kay Bailey Hutchison, as you know, senator out of Texas, first woman to ever represent Texas in the U.S. Senate. And I expect, we'll talk about this tomorrow night as well. But let me ask you while you're here, why should, if I were a woman, clearly I'm not, but if I were a woman, married or single, why should I vote for George Bush come November?

Whitman: There are a number of reasons. One is women right now are creating the majority of small businesses, more than 50 percent of the small businesses, and they're creating the majority of jobs. So women care very much about tax and economic policy. This president's been enormously strong on that. And the economic indicators, if you look back in '96 when Bill Clinton stood up and said, 'This is the strongest economy ever,' the measurements he used are stronger today. So we have an even stronger economy. Women--first of all, the overriding issue to my mind that is gonna decide this election for women and for men, but particularly for women, is national security. And they want, I think it'so-

Tavis: You, you think more so than the economy?

Whitman: I think so. I think the number one--because if you don't, if you're not secure, your economy isn't gonna grow. It has a, that's what the terrorists are after, they're after disrupting our economy to bring down this nation. So if we're not steady and strong on that course, everything else is secondary. And this president has shown a consistency here and a determination that I believe women are gonna support. But then they look at the economy, they look at education, enormously important. And the soft bigotry of low expectations is very real. 'No Child Left Behind' is the first major revamping of federal education policy that we have seen, and it's saying, we're not gonna leave any child behind. Women live longer than men, and so the fact that there are now prescription drug benefits for Medicare, very important to women, all those things.

Tavis: I got 30 seconds left here, I, we, we would remiss to not ask you this, as a former governor right quick, how's all this mess with the governor in your home state, the Garden State, gonna play itself out ultimately?

Whitman: I hope he will resign before Saturday, which if he did would allow for special elections so that the voters can be heard. Unfortunately, I don't think he will, and he's gonna stay in ‘til November, having admitted three weeks ago that he's too distracted to govern, which is a terrible place to be.

Tavis: I don't, I don't know the rules, can you be governor again?

Whitman: Not if he resigns early. I could if he stayed out, fulfill this term.

Tavis: Do you want to be governor again of New Jersey?

Whitman: No, I think it's time for New Jersey to have fresh blood.

Tavis: Alright, I think that's a, 'no.'

Whitman: That's a no.

Tavis: Okay. Governor, nice to see you.

Whitman: It's good to see you again.

Tavis: I hope, I hope we never ever meet again on a 'Jeopardy' stage.

Whitman: Believe me, I'm not going back.

Tavis: But you're, you're welcome back here anytime.

Whitman: It was too nerve-wracking.

Tavis: You're welcome back here anytime.

Whitman: Thank you.

Tavis: Nice to see you.