E-mail a friendJerry Bruckheimer
airdate November 25, 2004
In 2003, Entertainment Weekly named Jerry Bruckheimer the most powerful man in showbiz. He made his way from making commercials in his native Detroit to Madison Avenue ad exec to Hollywood ¸ber-producer. Bruckheimer's films, including Flashdance, Beverly Hills Cop, Top Gun and Pirates of the Caribbean, have made billions and turned their stars into box office giants. Equally successful on the small screen, he exec-produces the CSI series and The Amazing Race. National Treasure is his latest big-screen project.
Jerry Bruckheimer
Tavis: Jerry Bruckheimer has a lot to be thankful for this Thanksgiving Day. As I mentioned at the top of the show, in addition to having the number one show on television, the CBS drama 'C.S.I.,' he also has the number one movie in America, the Disney film 'National Treasure.' All in all, his movies have earned--get this--over $13 billion--that's with a B, mama--$13 billion. And in addition to 'C.S.I.,' Jerry Bruckheimer has at least 2 other TV shows in the top 10. His latest movie features Nicolas Cage. Here now a scene from 'National Treasure'.
Ben: Do you trust me?
Abigail: Yes.
Ben: Uhh!
Abigail: Ben!
Patrick: Son!
Ben: I'm sorry. I'm sorry I dropped you. I had to save the Declaration.
Abigail: No, don't be. I would have done exactly the same thing to you.
Ben: Really?
Tavis: Jerry Bruckheimer, nice to meet you.
Jerry Bruckheimer: Nice to see you, Tavis.
Tavis: I'm gonna hold onto your hand a little bit longer, not because I'm hitting on you, but I want some of this to rub off, so...
Bruckheimer: You're doing good. You're doing good. You're doing good.
Tavis: Just a little while here. How you doing, man?
Bruckheimer: Great.
Tavis: Nice to have you on. The critics panned this movie, 'National Treasure.' And you bump off 'The Incredibles,' you beat 'SpongeBob,' but the critics hated this movie. How--how--how do you do this?
Bruckheimer: They're called critics. It's their job to criticize things. That's just the way it is. You know, they just didn't get the movie, which is--I understand. The audiences did. It did over $35 million, 35.3 to be exact. So it's an enormous opening. It's the biggest non-summer opening I've had in my career. So, you know, I make movies to entertain people and entertain the masses of people, a lot of people. You know, we hit all the red states. We got them real good.
Tavis: Ha ha ha.
Bruckheimer: And that's good. I mean--you know, I do this because I want to take people away from their lives, take them on a journey for two hours, and this movie takes you on a journey. It makes you laugh. It makes you feel something. You learn something, and you're entertained the whole time, and if critics don't like that, what can I say?
Tavis: You've got so many hits under your belt at this point. Do you ever get concerned, though, when a movie comes out when your people start telling you, 'Jerry, they're panning this.' Does that ever get you scared?
Bruckheimer: I don't read 'em.
Tavis: You don't even read 'em.
Bruckheimer: I don't read 'em. 'Cause, you know, the good ones are never good enough--
Tavis: Ha ha ha!
Bruckheimer: And the bad ones hurt too much.
Tavis: Yeah. 'My movie's a whole lot better than that. What's he talking about?'
Bruckheimer: That's right. So... No, I don't read 'em. It's important for the people to enjoy the movie. If they don't like it, then I got a problem. You know, if I had great reviews and people didn't show up, I'd be living in a tiny little apartment in Hollywood and nobody would listen to me and I wouldn't be on your show.
Tavis: I'd still have you on.
Bruckheimer: Sure. After I graduated college--I grew up in Detroit, went to school in Arizona, went back to Detroit and started in the mailroom for a big advertising agency that handled General Motors and Pontiac, Cadillac, Dow Chemical. I worked myself into the television department, became a traffic boy, then an assistant producer, and then I started producing commercials and I produced a commercial that became very famous. It was written up by Time magazine, and I was noticed by a big New York agency, BBD&O, offered a job, went to New York. First time I'd ever been on a plane. Flew to New York, and got this job to do all the Pepsi advertising, both broadcast and radio. So it was a great opportunity for me. We won a lot of awards. I won, like, 8 Clios or 9 Clios for the stuff I did. And then 20th Century Fox brought me out to work as an associate producer on a little western called 'The Culpepper Cattle Company,' and that was back in the early seventies. So, um, that's how I started.
Tavis: Now, I'm doing something wrong here. 'Cause I started in the mail room, and I was written up by Time magazine years ago, and I ain't made $13 billion yet. So I gotta work a little harder. I'm not working hard enough. You mentioned you were from Detroit. Before I get back to the business of your career, since you are from Detroit, what did you make of what happened in Detroit the other night in that big ruckus?
Bruckheimer: That was rough. It's rough. Anytime, you know, a player can go into the stands, it's not a good thing. I mean, altercations amongst themselves, you know, the referees can police, but when they start climbing the stands, it's not good for the player or the fans who come to enjoy the game.
Tavis: We just came out-- I want to see if I can connect two things that might seem disparate, but I think I can connect them up here. Let me try at least. We talked about this ruckus in the NBA the other night between the Pacers and the Pistons in your hometown of Detroit. And you juxtapose that with the election we just came out of where we were told, at least, that there is a penchant now toward morals and values and personal responsibility in our society which is, in part, why Bush won, we're told, because of that whole debate about moral values. How do you square what we're told that Americans want with regard to--you know where I'm going with this--with regard to morals and values and yet work in a business that doesn't seem to give people that? They say they want it, but I'm not sure we're giving it to 'em in Hollywood.
Bruckheimer: Well, I think Hollywood... You have choices. You can see some of the movies I make which are PG. Disney certainly makes a lot of them. Warner Bros. makes a lot of them. 'The Incredibles' is a huge hit. 'The Polar Express' is doing really well. Those are all very family-oriented movies. Our movie 'National Treasure' is a family-oriented movie. So you have choices. It's a free country.
Tavis: Well, it's holiday season, too, Jerry. You expect that on the holidays.
Bruckheimer: Yeah, but all through the year you have a choice. You can go see an R-rated movie or you can see a PG-rated movie. They come out all year long. And, you know, it's up to the audience and the parents to make a choice of what they want their kids to see.
Tavis: Is the business, you think, going to start to turn more toward family, for lack of a better term, family-friendly movies given this debate the country's engaged in now about moral values?
Bruckheimer: Well, you know, Hollywood is a business. It's about making money. We like to do art and we do do art, but what fuels the art are the really successful movies. Some of the movies that, you know, the critics might pan, like our movie, but they generate enormous incomes, which allows the studios to make the smaller pictures, pictures that really have some heart and soul to them. Not that our pictures don't, but in a different way.
The critics love the 'Sling Blades,' which are terrific movies. So Hollywood is a huge corporation that makes all kinds of films, and I think we can go towards the family films, which I think a lot of studios are because there's no restrictions on advertising. If you have an R-rated picture, you can't advertise till after 9:00, so it kind of holds back your audience. And the kids can't get in to see it, so it limits your upside. But some movies, like 'Gladiator,' which is a great movie, did, you know, $140, $160 million. It was an R-rated picture. I've made R-rated pictures. 'Black Hawk Down' was a very successful picture that was R-rated. So I think we can give you everything, and it's up to the audience, again, to decide what they want to see.
Tavis: This question's gonna require you set your modesty aside just for a second. You can pick it back up about 30 seconds after you answer the question. But I assume--and I shouldn't assume. I know they are. There are--and I've met a lot of 'em. I know a lot of 'em. There are a lot of talented folk in this city, a lot of creative folk, a lot of talent in this city, number one. Number 2, every time I suspect anyone makes a film, it is, essentially, a roll of the dice. You never know what's gonna necessarily work or not work. And yet, with all that said, you have stumbled onto or developed some sort of formula. Maybe you don't want to give it away on national television, but what's the formula here? Why am I talking to you as opposed to somebody else who has been able to do what you've done?
Bruckheimer: If there was a formula, I'd be in Hawaii sipping Mai Tais or I'd be selling you the formula so you could do it, too. There's no formula. You just try to make movies with interesting characters, good themes, good plots, and, you know, great, great entertainment. That's it. It's that simple. How do you get there? We hire really talented people. We have great writers, writers who've worked on-- A number of writers worked on 'National Treasure'. Nic Cage is in it, enormous talent. Diane Kruger, Jon Voight, Harvey Keitel. When you put these people together--John Turteltaub has made a number of successful movies--get all these people together, you're going to win, 'cause they're gonna deliver for you, and that's what happens with my stuff. We deliver.
Tavis: You've worked with Nicolas Cage a few times now. What about this guy that you like so much?
Bruckheimer: Well, we've worked four times together. He's an everyday man. He's really smart, he's handsome, he's 6'2' or even taller, he's in great physical shape. He's a brilliant actor. He won an Academy Award for 'Leaving Las Vegas,' and then he comes back and does 'The Rock' with us, which is a big entertaining movie. Yet, you know, he plays...'Adaptation.' He plays two characters. Really tough. Doesn't care what he looks like in the movie, shaves his hair off. I mean, he's just a gifted young man, and also he's a wonderful young man. And the camera doesn't lie. You put somebody on that 100-foot screen, you look into their soul, it's all there. He's a great guy.
Tavis: When you see something on paper, when your people say, 'Jerry, take a look at this and tell me what you think,' um... two-part question: Tell me what you see on paper that translates for you into this feeling at least that there's something here. And tell me, when you look at something on paper, you say, 'You know what? This would never work.' Is there something you're looking for here?
Bruckheimer: Sure. Sure. Do I want to see it? It's really simple.
Tavis: Do you want to see it?
Bruckheimer: Yeah. I don't know what you like.
Tavis: Is that the answer, if Jerry Bruckheimer likes it, we're all gonna like it?
Bruckheimer: I don't know that, but that's all I can make. I don't know what anybody else likes. I know what I like. I go to the movies a lot. I was there, not this past weekend because I was traveling, promoting the movie, but the weekend before I saw a couple movies. This holiday I'm gonna see as many movies as I possibly can. I really enjoy it. I want to sit back, put my hand in my popcorn, and have you transport me to another place. And that's what I try to do with the films that we make is transport you, take you away from all your problems and let you sit back and just have a good time.
Tavis: You just said something fascinating for me, and I don't want to lose this. Did I hear you say that at the heart of all this, you're just a movie fan? You're in the business and you do very well, but you are a fan--you like going to movies.
Bruckheimer: I love it. I saw 'Ray' two weekends ago. I loved 'Ray.' I thought it was great. Jamie Foxx was amazing. I saw 'Sideways,' a smaller independent movie. I thought it was terrific. So those directors and those actors entertained me, and those producers. They did a great job. And writers. And that's all I ask. Let me sit back and let me use my mind or let me forget about everything. And I want to do that with our movies, even though those are much different movies than 'National Treasure.' But still, they're very entertaining.
Tavis: Let me flip it on you if I can for a second, respectfully. We've been talking here for the balance of this conversation about--the majority of the conversation--about how successful you are and why you're successful and what that success means. Let me ask you what you don't like about this business. I assume even for a guy like Jerry Bruckheimer there are challenges. There are days when you may ask yourself, 'Why am I in this?' Maybe there are days you say to yourself, 'I've done enough of this, I should go to Hawaii, sip on Mai Tais, and start selling something beyond movies.' What do you dislike about this business? What are the challenges, even for you, at this point in your career?
Bruckheimer: Communication. It's really difficult, and you have to communicate with a lot of people, which is great, but some people don't communicate with you, and that's hard. There's always the business aspect of the movie, you know. We're fighting right now to get 'Pirates' made. You always need more money than the studios are gonna want to give you to make the movie. So it's that struggle to get the budget down to a level where they'll say yes, and it happens on every movie, whether it's a huge movie like we're trying to make two 'Pirates,' 2 and 3 together, or when you make a little tiny movie.
We just finished a picture called 'Glory Road' that Josh Lucas is in. It's about basketball, 1966. There's this basketball team called Texas Westerners. It's now called UTEP. Back in ‘65 and ‘66, or even before that, African Americans didn't play in the Atlantic Coast Conference or in the Southeastern Conference. There were none, and even in the rest of the country, they'd play one or two or maybe three if they were losing. And a young coach goes there from Oklahoma, a white man, and he puts a team together 'cause he sees he has no player down. He puts a team together from Detroit, from Chicago, from New York. Five or six of them were African Americans. The rest were white kids. And during the season, he only played three African Americans. He won every game but one game in the second season, goes to the national championship against Kentucky, Adolph Rupp, one of the greatest coaches that ever won. Four national championships, all-white team, Pat Riley was the captain of the team, leading scorer, and he runs them off the court. And he started all five black players. He wanted to make a statement because he had so much racism during the season when he started winning. They didn't want him to win, but that changed basketball for everybody. Michael Jordan couldn't have played in the Carolinas had this man not changed it, so that's a real interesting movie that we just finished, so, again, all types of entertainment. But it was difficult on the budget. That was an inexpensive movie. It was in the 30s, and we had to fight to get that one made, so it's always that fight for the budget that you hate.
Tavis: Does it take...do you have to have a lot of money to make a good movie?
Bruckheimer: No. It's not about the money. It's about, again, the script and the story, but some things require money. We couldn't have made 'Pirates of the Caribbean' for $50 million because you have all that water. Look at all the ships you've gotta build, 'cause nothing exists. All the costumes had to be made. There's nothing that you can draw on. Basketball stuff, we can find, but not back from ‘66. We still had to make all the uniforms for the guys 'cause everything's gone.
Tavis: Do people sit in meetings these days with Jerry Bruckheimer and tell you no? 'No, Jerry, we're not gonna do that. No, Jerry, you can't do that.'
Bruckheimer: Every day.
Tavis: I don't believe that.
Bruckheimer: There are studio executives that know a lot more than I do and helped me build my career, so that's just the way it is. It's just, you know, everybody thinks they have the better way to make the wheel.
Tavis: How do you process that?
Bruckheimer: You deal with it. Always the best argument is you've gotta convince them. You know, I stand a little taller than some of them ‘cause I've had some success. But still, it's all a game of verbal communications: convince people that your way is right and maybe they'll convince you that your way is wrong and maybe there's a better way to do it. I'll always listen, I don't care who it comes from.
Tavis: What are we not getting--this is a deliberately broad question here--what are we not getting enough of from Hollywood? I'm talking about the movie-going public since you like to sit like I do in the back and eat the popcorn and enjoy the flick. What's Hollywood not giving us enough of?
Bruckheimer: I think we give you too much. I think it's a problem. We have too many films bombarding the marketplace, and it eats up a lot of theaters, and some of the better movies don't get the chance to really explode. That's an issue. Every weekend you're fighting three or four or five movies that are coming out, so maybe we should crunch it down a little bit. But that's hard to tell anybody because each studio wants to make 'x' amount of movies every year because they generate so much income when you really hit it big. And not everybody hits big all the time. And, you know, Hollywood can do a better job with a lot of things, just like any other industry, from, I guess, exposing you to more stars, which we have a hard time doing because everybody goes for the same stars all the time. I try to give you new people. You know, Josh Lucas is a new young man who's in 'Sweet Home Alabama,' that we put in 'Glory Road,' so I think the more we gravitate towards bringing up new talent, I love doing that, and I hope Hollywood's more open to it. Because they feel unless you have a huge movie star, you can't get the picture to open. That's not necessarily true because if you make a good movie, people will come.
Tavis: I suspect that you can get paid a lot of money to answer this next question, particularly if you decide to write a book and answer this question, but since this is PBS, you'll do our PBS viewers a favor. For those persons watching right now who want to be producers, whose dream it is to get to Hollywood and to have the kind of cachet and clout that you have to get their project made, what do you say to people who would be big-time exec producers?
Bruckheimer: Well, I just say this for any talent, whether it's producer, writer, you know, you just gotta learn your craft. And for producers, you gotta read a lot. You've gotta understand story, understand how to tell a good story, understand how to develop themes, how to develop great characters, and how to develop arcs for characters. So you've gotta learn that.
You gotta learn everything about the business. You gotta read everything you possibly can--magazines, periodicals, on the Internet about Hollywood, how things get done, who's at various studios, who's running various agencies. You have to have the vernacular down and all the people that you have to deal with. And for a writer, write. You gotta write. For an actor, you gotta work. You gotta study, you gotta do plays, you gotta constantly be exposed, 'cause writers and actors get rejected all the time. They send a script, nobody likes the script, so you have to develop a thick skin and you have to be honest to yourself what you're good at. That's a key thing.
A lot of things I'd love to do I know I'm no good at, so I'm not gonna try. I'd love to be an actor. I'd love to be a huge superstar, but I can't act and I know that, so I found something that I'm really good at. I started when I was a young kid. When I was 7 or 8 years old, I organized a little baseball team. I wasn't a good baseball player, but in order for me to play, I had to organize a team and control the team, so I went out and got a little sponsor. And we were called the Aces, and we played baseball and when I was a little older, I organized a hockey team 'cause I wasn't a very good player, but I always had the skill of organizing people, putting people together, and that's what a producer does.
Tavis: I got news for you. You're pretty good at acting like the biggest, baddest producer in Hollywood. You got that role down.
Bruckheimer: I don't know about that.
Tavis: Yeah, you do.
Bruckheimer: Thanks, Tavis.
Tavis: Nice to meet you, Jerry.
Up next on this program, long-time Hollywood photographer Bill Jones. Stay with us.
Back to November 25, 2004