E-mail a friendRep. John Lewis
airdate February 11, 2005
Georgia Rep. John Lewis is recognized as one of the "Big Six" civil rights movement leaders. As a student, he organized sit-in demonstrations at segregated lunch counters. He also helmed the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. The son of sharecroppers, the Alabama native was educated at Nashville's Fisk University and American Baptist Theological Seminary. He was on the Atlanta City Council before being elected to the U.S. House in '86. Lewis is the last surviving speaker from the '63 March on Washington.
Rep. John Lewis
Tavis: I'm honored to welcome Congressman John Lewis to this program. As a young man in his early 20s, he became one of the most important leaders of the entire civil rights era. In 1963 at the age of 23, he was a keynote speaker at the historic March on Washington. 2 years later, he was severely beaten almost to death in Selma, Alabama, during the infamous march that became known as Bloody Sunday. Last month, Congressman Lewis was named the 2005 Humanitarian Award recipient at the Kennedy Center's annual Martin Luther King, Jr. tribute. He joins us tonight from Washington. Congressman, nice to have you on again, sir.
Rep. John Lewis: Well, it is good to be here. Thank you so much for having me, and thank you for all that you continue to do.
Tavis: That's awfully kind of you. I appreciate it. Let me start on a sad note. I know that some may be aware of this, given what they've read in the New York 'Times' and other places, but we had the occasion just a couple of weeks ago on this stage in this studio here in Los Angeles to conduct what would turn out to be Ossie Davis' last television interview. That interview will air on this program on the 21st of February. We were talking to him on the occasion of the 40th anniversary of the assassination of Malcolm X, which I want to ask you about in just a second. But I want to start our conversation by asking you what Ossie Davis meant to the movement. He was such a historic figure, not just on the stage and on the screen, but indeed as a civil rights activist. Talk to me for a moment here about the life and legacy of Ossie Davis.
Lewis: Well, you're so right. Ossie Davis was more than a entertainer. He was more than someone we saw on stage or in films. He was truly a warrior, a fighter--a fighter for civil liberties, a fighter for civil rights, fighting for peace. When we needed someone, when we needed someone to articulate the feelings, the hopes, the dreams, and aspirations of people, Ossie Davis was there. Whether it was the March on Washington in 1963, or long before the march when Dr. King and others had the 1957 Prayer Pilgrimage to Washington, Ossie was there. When we marched on Washington, he was there. When we needed him during the freedom rides, the sit-ins, the march from Selma to Montgomery, he was always there to add a word, to add his voice. I remember so well how he became a friend of those of us that was part of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. We lost a true American, a wonderful American. I spoke to Harry Belafonte just a few days ago, and we both said, like Harry said that Ossie must be put in the category with Paul Robeson, with Martin Luther King, Jr., with Fannie Lou Hamer, and so many others who just got out front and got in the way.
Tavis: Mm-hmm. Um, there's so much to talk to you about in such a limited amount of time. I thought that for this particular conversation, given that over the last year or so and certainly as we look forward through this year, there are so many significant, seminal moments in the civil rights movement that we are celebrating anniversaries around, so I thought that I would spend the bulk of our conversation tonight throwing some significant anniversaries at you and just giving you an opportunity to share with me since you seem to be one of the persons still around that was at all of these historic events. Let me start with the one you mentioned a moment ago, the March on Washington. We just recently celebrated the 40th anniversary of the March on Washington. You were 23, the youngest speaker at the March on Washington. Right quick, tell me what that meant to you as a 23-year-old representing the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee.
Lewis: Well, I was 23 years old, chair of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, working with the like of Martin Luther King, Jr., Whitney Young, James Farmer of CORE, Roy Wilkins of the NAACP, uh, Dr. King and A. Philip Randolph. To be at the march and to be a speaker, to look out over that sea of humanity, it was America at her best, and I was there when Dr. King stood and said, "I have a dream today, a dream that is deeply rooted in the American dream." He had the ability, the capacity to transform those marble steps at the Lincoln Memorial into a modern-day pulpit, and I heard Dr. King speak so many times, but that day, he spoke from his heart, his soul, his gut, and, uh, he changed America.
Tavis: Tell me right quick, um, for those who don't know this story--I've heard it a thousand times, and every time I see you, of course, I make you retell this story to me 'cause I love it so much. But for those who don't know the backstory on the particular passage of your speech that became a huge controversy, um, that there was caucus around this particular passage that people thought should not be uttered. You know what I'm talkin' about. Tell me what the passage was and how that issue got resolved, right quick, for those who don't know the wonderful backstory about the March on Washington.
Lewis: Well, we all had to prepare a brief speech and make advance copies available, and some people saw a copy of my speech, and somehow it got back to the attorney general, the Department of Justice, and to the Archbishop of Washington, and the Archbishop of Washington threatened not to give an invocation if I didn't change the speech. And people like Robert Kennedy, the attorney general, and others thought I should change it. There was a line near the end of the speech that said something like, "If we do not see meaningful progress here today, the day may come when we will not march just on Washington, but we may be forced to march through the South the way Sherman did, nonviolently." And some people thought that was inflammatory, and they wanted me to change it, so we had some discussion about it, and a group of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee staffers, we met on the side of Mr. Lincoln. They had a portable typewriter, and we made the changes. A. Philip Randolph and Dr. King and others pleaded with me for the sake of unity to make the changes, that we have come this far together, let's stay together, and we made those changes.
Tavis: All right. 40th anniversary on March the 7th of this year of the day that became known as Bloody Sunday, the day I referenced earlier that you were beaten severely on. Take me back right quick and tell me about Bloody Sunday and that Selma to Montgomery March.
Lewis: On March 7, 1965, about 600 of us attempted to march from Selma to Montgomery to dramatize to the nation that people of color wanted to register to vote. In Alabama and Mississippi and other parts of the South, black men and women could not register to vote. They had to pass a so-called literacy test, interpreting sections of the constitution of the state of Alabama. One occasion, there was a black man who had a Ph.D. degree, and he flunked a so-called literacy test. He was told he could not read or write well enough. The only day that people could attempt to register to vote in Selma was the first and third Mondays in each month, so after a series of arrests and violence and people had been beaten, shot and killed, we decided to march from Selma to Montgomery--men, women, and young children. And we left Selma in an orderly, peaceful, nonviolent fashion. We crossed the Alabama River, came across the Edmund Pettus Bridge, and when we got to the highest point on the bridge, down below we saw a sea of blue--Alabama state troopers. And we continued to walk, and we came within hearing distance of the state troopers, and a man identified himself and said, "I'm Major John Cloud of the Alabama State Troopers. This is an unlawful march and will not be allowed to continue. I give you 3 minutes to disperse and return to your church." In less than a minute and a half, the major said, "Troopers, advance," and these men put on their gas masks. They came toward us, beating us with nightsticks, bullwhips, trampling us with horses, releasing their tear gas. I was hit in the head by a state trooper with a nightstick, had a concussion at the bridge. I thought I saw death. I thought I was going to die.
Tavis: Mm. I'm glad you didn't die, Congressman.
Lewis: Well, I'm glad I did survive and live, and I tell you, 40 years later, I don't recall how I made it back through the streets of Selma, back to that little church, but I do recall being back at the church that Sunday afternoon, and later that Sunday, I was hospitalized.
Tavis: This year is the 40th anniversary of the assassination of Malcolm X. Much has been written, much has been misunderstood, quite frankly, about the differences, as opposed to the similarities, between Malcolm X and Martin King, but you had a chance to spend time with both, certainly Dr. King more than Malcolm X, but we celebrate this year--commemorate, I should say, the 40th anniversary of the assassination of Malcolm X. Your thoughts on his life?
Lewis: Well, I tell you, I first met Malcolm on the eve of the March on Washington in 1963. I saw him again in 1964. As a matter of fact, Malcolm came to Selma in the early part of February 1965, to visit us, and we were all in jail, and the authority refused to let Malcolm come and visit us in jail, so he spoke at Brown Chapel A.M.E. Church in Selma, uh, with Martin Luther King--Mrs. Martin Luther King--Coretta Scott King--to a group of high school students. And on that day, that Sunday, February the 21st, which is my birthday, I would drive, or ride in back rather, from South Georgia through Atlanta on my way back to Selma, Alabama, and we heard that Malcolm had been assassinated. It was a sad and dark hour for those of us who admired and loved Malcolm, what he stood for. Um, as a matter of fact, I went to the funeral, and Ossie Davis delivered a eulogy. Um, Malcolm caused a whole generation of young Americans, black and white, but especially black youth, to stand up and do as Dr. King would say, "Straighten up their back," and Dr. King would say, "When you straighten up your back, no man can ride it." People admired and loved Malcolm. People are misreading him. Uh, I think we should pause as a nation and as a people to think about the contribution this man made. If he had lived...
Tavis: Mm-hmm.
Lewis: If he had lived, and Dr. King, the two of them had lived longer, it would have been a unified movement for major changes in the American society.
Tavis: You learn something every day. I had no idea that Malcolm X was assassinated on your birthday. In the minute that I have left, let me ask you right quick. You were part of a meeting just days ago with President George W. Bush just prior to his State of the Union speech, and a question--he met with the Congressional Black Caucus, of which you, of course, are a member. He was asked about whether or not he would support the Voting Rights Act when it comes up for renewal. It expires in 2006, as you know. Comes up for renewal in 2007. The Voting Rights Act of '65. We celebrate the 40th anniversary of that, one of the seminal pieces of legislation in this country around which people had their right to vote protected. The president was noncommittal in that particular meeting. His spokesperson has since said the president supports voting rights, but he's not on the record at this moment supporting the renewal of the Voting Rights Act when it expires next year. To that, you say what?
Lewis: Well, I was somewhat surprised and shocked that the president of the United States couldn't make a commitment that he would support the extension or the renewal of the Voting Rights Act. He said almost in so many words that he was not that familiar with it, and that is hard and difficult to believe, that after so much struggle, so much bloodshed for the right to vote, the right to participate in the democratic process, the highest elected official in the country, with 3 members from Texas sitting there, wouldn't be in the congress, 3 African-American members of congress from the state of Texas, wouldn't be members of congress if it hadn't been for the Voting Rights Act.
Tavis: Well, I'm glad that you know about voting rights. I'm glad moreover that you were there to help struggle so that persons in my generation and behind me could have the right to vote, and I hope, as I'm sure you do, in the coming days and weeks, the president will familiarize himself with the Voting Rights Act of 1965 and understand the importance of its renewal. Congressman, I thank you for your service. You are an authentic American hero. Always glad to talk to you, sir.
Lewis: Well, thank you very much. I always enjoy being with you.
Tavis: Take care of yourself now.
Lewis: You do the same.
Tavis: Congressman John Lewis, Democrat, of Georgia. Up next on this program, Oscar-nominated actress Laura Linney from 'Kinsey.' Stay with us.
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