E-mail a friendOssie Davis
airdate February 21, 2005
For more than 60 years, Ossie Davis enjoyed success as a playwright, screenwriter, director, producer and actor. He wrote essays, children's books and, with actress Ruby Dee - his collaborator and wife of 56 years - a dual memoir. Davis used his gifts and stature to champion civil rights. He often spoke at rallies, including the '63 March on Washington, and gave a poignant eulogy at Malcolm X's '65 funeral. He's featured in PBS' portrait of the slain leader, Malcolm X - Make It Plain. Davis' passion for human rights and his talent will long be celebrated.
Ossie Davis
Tavis: Last month, just before his death, I spoke with Ossie Davis by satellite from New York City. The topic of our conversation was the 40th anniversary of the assassination of his friend Malcolm X. We taped the conversation well in advance of today's anniversary because Ossie Davis, ever the working actor, was leaving the next day for Miami to begin work on his last movie. Upon learning the news of his death, we struggled with what to do with our conversation, but in the end, we knew the best way to honor Ossie Davis' legacy was to air this show as planned. And so as we look back today at 40 years since Malcolm X's death, here is my conversation with Ossie Davis, recorded on January the 26th.
Tavis: Ossie Davis joins us tonight from New York City. Mr. Davis, nice to have you on with us, sir.
Ossie Davis: I'm glad to be here, and thank you.
Tavis: I'm glad to have you here. Does it seem like 40 years ago your friend was gunned down?
Davis: Um, no, it doesn't seem that way. Time, heh, is strange. It seems that there's something about Malcolm that refuses to die. It's always present, and it's still a part of our history.
Tavis: This might be an impossible question, but since you went there, let me try to follow up. What do you think that something might be, that something that is Malcolm that refuses to be buried?
Davis: It was a commitment to his people and to their history. It's hard for me to imagine Malcolm alive now. At the same time, I'm aware that in our prisons, we have more black youths committed to the care of the state than we have in our colleges. The 2 concepts contradict each other. Malcolm would have done something about that, I'm sure.
Tavis: How did you prepare--how does one prepare to eulogize one like Malcolm X, and, for that matter, you also spoke at Dr. King's service as well. How does one prepare to eulogize 2 giant figures in history like Malcolm X and Dr. King?
Davis: Well, if--if--if someone should ask you or me to do that, the first thing, I should think, would be to sit quietly for as long as it takes and think long thoughts about the subject, about the time, about his life or her life, and about where our people were in their march toward freedom and about where they are now. The great advantage of our having affairs like this is that it gives us a chance to revisit our heroes and to get our priorities back in shape and in order, so that as we move forward, we move with a sense of direction and purpose. So if someone asks you to make a statement that would eulogize an important figure, the first thing to do is to think and then remember and then speak.
Tavis: I have been to any number of services over the years, and I suspect that you have been to some yourself where we have seen persons--trying to be kind here--struggling to say nice things about the person, struggling sometimes to eulogize them in a kind way. I suspect that, given all that Malcolm did in his short 39 years, once you had a chance to sit and think those long thoughts, it wasn't difficult to know what to say because he lived a life that was so full in 39 years. In other words, you didn't struggle with what to say, did you?
Davis: No, I didn't struggle with what to say. But I was aware that I was operating somewhat under constraints. Remember, it was an explosive time in the Harlem community. Malcolm had been killed on Sunday, uh, the previous Sunday, and then on Tuesday night there'd been a firebomb at the mosque. So nobody knew in our community what the implications were. All we knew was that this was one of the most explosive things that had come along in a long time. How could we, in the community, come up with a service that would honor the man and yet at the same time placate the powers that were in contention over the meaning of the man? It was an assignment that was given to me by Percy Sutton and others. Therefore, it was not a question of my knowing Malcolm and appreciating him. It was a kind of civic duty--how to help establish and maintain a peaceful atmosphere so that the community could have a chance to say a proper farewell to a man who deserved our best.
Tavis: You used a phrase a moment ago, Mr. Davis. You used the phrase "in contention." Let me take that phrase and--and, uh, extrapolate from it, if I might. There are those, these many years later, who see the lives of Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, Jr. as in contention. They both had different thoughts, different ideas, different ways about how the struggle for freedom ought to be engaged. There are folk these many years later, though, even though the two of them did meet, who still see their work as in contention. Since you spoke at both of those services, talk to me briefly about Malcolm and--I hate to say this, but I think you know what I'm getting at--Malcolm vs. Martin, Martin vs. Malcolm.
Davis: Well, once again, as I said before, one should sit and quietly reflect upon the historical circumstances that brought us to where we were. If you will remember, there's always been in our country, different points of view as to our status as a people and as to what we should do about it. There's always been a group of African-Americans who felt that this was a country that was racist in concept, that America looked upon itself as a white man's country, that it would never, ever give us our just reward, and therefore what we needed to do was to separate from America, leave it if necessary, but under no circumstances should we push any attempt to integrate with people who didn't want to integrate with us. The Black Nationalist movements sort of articulated that position. There were others who said, 'This is as much my country as it is anybody's. My fathers and my mothers died for it.' In the American Revolution, before there was any such thing as a United States, black men and women stood with rifles, and they fired, and they fought in the war to make this country possible. My father lies on the hill, my mother lies in the valley, and nobody will take me from my place here. So there's always been a contention, in a sense, between those who thought we belonged, that we should defend our right to be here, and those who said, 'If the white folks don't want me, I don't want them either.' Malcolm was in the Black Nationalist camp for most of his life and quite honestly coming by that position. And he wasn't the only one. You know, Marcus Garvey and several of the others felt, 'Look, forget anybody else. We need, as black people, to take care of our own interests. Let the white man go. Who cares about him?' There were others, like Martin Luther King, who, following the examples of Frederick Douglass and W.E.B. Dubois, said, 'This is our land. This is our country. We fought for it, we died for it, and we will live--you know, we will survive or fail right here.' That was the contention that had sort of come to a head at the time Malcolm was killed.
Tavis: I'm sorry, I think it speaks volumes about you that you were invited to speak at both of their funeral services. Let me close by asking you this: as we look back on Malcolm's life, um, his assassination, what do you think we ought to take from this moment?
Davis: Malcolm's great dedication was to self-determination of the people. He was doing in an organized fashion, in a sense, what Bill Cosby's trying to get us to do: black people taking care of black affairs, taking control of black community, using black energy, black money, black thoughts, black prayers, and black votes to solve black problems. Malcolm was that then. Had he lived to now, he would still be setting us to take every black dollar we had, every black vote we could find, every ounce of black energy and attempt to solve these problems that are still oppressing us.
Tavis: There's an old adage that says every race ought to be judged by the best they have been able to produce. Malcolm X was part of the best that black America's ever produced, along with Ossie Davis and his lovely wife Miss Ruby Dee. Mr. Davis, congratulations on your recent 55th wedding anniversary. Congratulations on those Kennedy Center Honors. Give our best to Miss Ruby, and always an honor and delight to talk to you, sir.
Davis: Thank you very much.
Tavis: Shortly after I learned of Ossie Davis' passing, I received a phone call from his wife of over 55 years, Miss Ruby Dee. She asked if I would speak at her husband's funeral, which I was humbled and honored to do. And as I reflected on what to say about this great American hero, I recalled what Mr. Davis said to me about eulogizing someone of great stature. "Sit quietly," he said, "for as long as it takes and think long thoughts about the subject." I did, and as I said at his funeral in New York City, he was an authentic American hero, in large measure, because he never allowed his artistry to be separated from his advocacy. He understood better than most what Benjamin Elijah Mays meant when he wrote, "I have only but a minute, only 60 seconds in it, forced upon me, can't refuse it, didn't seek it, didn't choose it, but it's up to me to use it. I must suffer if I lose it; give account if I abuse it. Just a tiny little minute, but all of eternity is wrapped up in it." We'll be right back with our conversation with Malcolm X's eldest daughter, Ms. Shabazz. Stay with us.
Back to February 21, 2005