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airdate February 23, 2005
Grammy-nominated rapper Ludacris grew up with old-school influences. At age 12, he joined a Chicago-based hip-hop group, The Loudmouth Hooligans. He soon moved to Atlanta and wound up producing a new urban radio show. He started rapping on station promos and became as recognizable as some of the DJs. He saved enough money to release the album, "Incognegro," which caught the ear of Def Jam Records' president. Ludacris' latest release is 'Red Light District.' He also stars in the films Crash and Hustle & Flow.
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Tavis: Fred Gregory is the acting administrator of NASA and the first African-American ever to lead America's space program. He is a graduate of the Air Force Academy, went on to fly combat missions in Vietnam before becoming an astronaut back in 1978. He joins us tonight from Washington. Mr. Gregory, nice to have you on the program.
Fred Gregory: Tavis, thank you very much.
Tavis: Glad to have you, and I'm always honored to talk to anyone in the Air Force. My dad recently retired after 37 years in the Air Force, so I love you Air Force guys. Let me start by saying congratulations to you on this wonderful opportunity and appointment. You've been at NASA for quite some time. But as I mentioned a moment ago, I guess you take this Black History month thing pretty seriously. We know that February, of course, is Black History month, but you're actually making history in Black History month. So how does that feel?
Gregory: Well, you know, it's certainly an honor to represent all of those who have preceded us. And I sure hope that this month represents what all of us are preparing to do to give to the next generation. Of course, I feel very proud to represent the many this month, and actually, we probably ought to have a lot more months.
Tavis: Yeah, we certainly should. How we chose the coldest and shortest month to celebrate such a rich heritage is a mystery to me, but I'll leave that alone. Let me ask you right quick this very impolitic question and get it out of the way. I can assume what your answer might be, but let me ask anyway. Is this a position that you are interested in? In other words, if offered by the president, if offered and confirmed by the Senate, would you serve as the permanent administrator of NASA, if opportunity arose for you?
Gregory: Oh, I think if the opportunity arose, I would probably consider it. But at this moment I would really like just to kind of stay in this deputy role and work the inside. However, if asked, I would certainly consider it.
Tavis: Tell me very quickly about your history at NASA, and even before you get to that, I should ask where this love of aviation came from.
Gregory: Well, you know, I think I'll start with the last part of your question. When I was growing up, my dad, who was an educator, would take me out to see the air show out at Andrews Air Force base just outside of D.C., and I think I gained a love for aviation just watching those aircraft fly over and then walking into them and touching them. I took my wife on our first date to an air show. She was in a dress and heels, and she should have had a good idea then what the future was going to be like. But I talked to one of the pilots over there, and they suggested that I go to this new school that they were building in Colorado, which became the Air Force Academy. I needed an appointment, and reverend Adam Clayton Powell gave me one, and for the four years I was at the Academy my address of record was the Abyssinian Baptist church. I flew in the Air Force, flew helicopters in Vietnam and then flew fighters, F-4S, and had the privilege to go to test pilot school, both as a helicopter pilot and as a fixed-wing pilot. Time flying as a test pilot in the Air Force, and I was loaned to NASA in 1974 for two years, and I have never left it. I guess that's 31 years now I've been with NASA.
Tavis: Tell me how you have seen NASA change over the years with regard to people of color. Not just African-Americans, but when we think of space travel, when we think of the kind of work that NASA engages in, there are a few names that stand out--of course, Ronald McNair comes to mind, Mae Jemison comes to mind, and Fred Gregory, obviously, comes to mind. But talk to me about the progress that's being made by people of color at NASA.
Gregory: When I came in in '74, I was assigned as a research test pilot at the Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia, and I would have to wander around quite a lot to see a person of color, or actually, any person of any other nationality, and that was in '74. And during the years that I have been in, obviously the population of all of it, of the agency, has become much more diverse. And I think if you come in and sit in our senior staff meetings now, you will see something that certainly represents the diversity of this great country, not only in the racial mix, the ethnic mix, but in the men and women. I think it is an excellent agency to work in. But I've also got to admit that I came out of the Air Force, and I'm sure that you also saw this, that I think the military, the Department of Defense really got all this stuff kicked off, and there was a lot of suffering and a lot of learning and a lot of unstereotyping that occurred after that. So I think the military is the one that really got the - or offered the opportunity to many of us to do these kinds of roles that I know my dad and grandfather never got to enter into.
Tavis: No question about that. There's so many opportunities that the broader society has come now to understand, appreciate, and offer to people of color, following behind the military, and it is because the military provided those opportunities ahead of the rest of society that we have people like now retired general and former Secretary of State Colin Powell, so you're absolutely right about that.
Gregory: Absolutely.
Tavis: Let me ask you right quick what changes have been made. There are two -- I think I got this right. There are now two missions back to outer space, two manned space flights, that are on the books as we speak. Let me ask you right quick what has happened since Columbia to better ensure -- there's no exact science here -- but to better ensure that these manned space flights are safer? I had the opportunity -- I say this with ambivalence -- I conducted the last conversation with the Columbia crew before they attempted re-entry. I was on NPR at the time and had the last conversation with them. I listen to that conversation from time to time and had no idea, or course, that the space shuttle would break up on re-entry. But what's happened since then to make these next two scheduled flights safer?
Gregory: Well, I'm certainly glad that you asked that. The Columbia accident occurred February 1 a couple of years ago, and, you know, if you had come in to us and asked us on that day what's wrong, we would have shrugged our shoulders and said, well, it was just something that happened. But with the Accident Investigation Board, chaired by Admiral Hal Gehman, he and the board not only looked at the technical issues that the agency had, in one case, overlooked, but in other cases they were just technical issues that we had in the agency, he also looked at the culture of the agency. And he looked at the -- even though we thought it was an excellent attitude, a can-do attitude, we can do it, prove to me that you can't do it -- he showed us and told us that that attitude, the approach that we took as far as communication was concerned, the weight that we gave to a person who was not on the inside group, he demonstrated to us that the culture, in addition to the technical issues, would have to be changed.
Tavis: Right.
Gregory: And so obviously, you've seen the technical changes that we've had. We've minimized as much as possible foam breaking off from the tank with the possibility of it hitting the orbiter, and there have been quite a few others. The ability to look at the orbiter on orbit, the sensors that we have, the EVAs that we have planned to go out and look at the wings and the reinforced carbon on the front. But we as people have become -- we have had tutors to help us better communicate. We've developed something called One NASA, where we don't look at a center, we look at the entire agency and gain the strength from the entire agency. We've opened up communication. We've tried to break down stovepipes. So when we launch in May, which we're shooting for right now, I think not only will you see the technical changes and the very improved space shuttle, but you will also see an agency that has actually changed its culture. And so it's lots of things that have occurred after the accident which I think has made a much stronger organization.
Tavis: I think that's what the American public wants to hear. We certainly look forward to getting back into outer space and doing the kind of research and development that will benefit humankind in this country and indeed, around the globe. We're delighted to have you on the program, delighted that you are the acting director of NASA, and I must say selfishly that I hope that this position, now temporary, will become permanent. All the best to you in the coming months and years. Nice to have you on, Mr. Gregory.
Gregory: Thank you, Tavis.
Tavis: My pleasure. Up next on this program, Grammy-winning rap artist Ludacris. Stay with us.
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