E-mail a friendSen. Susan Collins
airdate March 18, 2005
The Associated Press named GOP Sen. Susan Collins one of the ten members to watch in the 109th Congress. Elected to the Senate in '96, Collins was the first freshman to lead the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations. She chairs the Senate Homeland Security Committee and is a member of the Armed Services Committee. She co-authored the intelligence reform legislation that implements many of the 9-11 Commission's recommendations. Collins also sits on the Holocaust Memorial Council, which oversees the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum.
Sen. Susan Collins
Tavis: Senator Susan Collins is serving her second term representing the state of Maine. She's the chair on the Committee on Homeland Security and a member of the Armed Services Committee. Along with committee members John McCain, Hillary Clinton and others, Senator Collins recently traveled to Iraq and Afghanistan, the first such trip following elections in Iraq. She joins us tonight, though, from Washington, D.C. Senator, nice to have you on the program.
Sen. Susan Collins: Thank you, Tavis. Nice to join you.
Tavis: I'm glad to have you. As we all know, the president has requested and is expected to get $82 billion additional in emergency military spending. Let me start by asking, given what you saw in Iraq and Afghanistan, does the president deserve to get the $82 billion additional requested? Does he deserve it?
Collins: Yes, he does. There's no doubt that our troops need the very best equipment and that we need to put some more money into reconstruction of Afghanistan. If there's any message I heard from our military leaders over and over again, it was don't shortchange us. We're about to turn the corner. In Afghanistan, in particular, there's been tremendous progress, and we really need the funds to do the job right, and I know that none of us wants to shortchange in any way the brave men and women who are serving in our military.
Tavis: It's easy to do for me asking a question, but I might have just done a disservice by lumping Iraq and Afghanistan in the same sentence. Let me back up and ask you to share with me what the stark--my word, not yours. I assume some of the contrasts were stark--but whatever the case may be, share with me your differences between Iraq and Afghanistan as you saw those 2 countries?
Collins: There was a marked difference between 2 countries. In Afghanistan, we saw an emerging democracy, people who are so grateful to our country for liberating them and people who are eager to seize their own destiny and go forward. In Afghanistan, we have a very strong, charismatic leader in Hamid Karzai, and I was struck by the progress that Afghanistan has made in the 3 years since I last visited the country. At that time, the schools were not open to girls. Now girls are being educated all over Afghanistan, and 20% of the university students are women. Women have been elected to the Afghan assembly. A woman's going to be governor of one of the major provinces.
This country has a long ways to go, it needs to deal with a huge poppy crop, for example. But I believe Afghanistan has turned the corner and certainly warrants our continued support so that it can complete the transition into a prosperous, ultimately--it's very poor now--peaceful democracy, and I am convinced that the Afghan people can do it.
In Iraq, I saw the impact of a still violent insurgency that is opposed to everything we're trying to accomplish in that country. The security was much tighter than the last time that I was in Iraq in 2003. In contrast to Afghanistan, where we ate out at a local restaurant, in Iraq, we had to go by armed Blackhawk helicopters from city to city in the country. I hope that we're seeing a tipping point in Iraq because of the success of the recent elections, but there's no doubt that it's gonna be a long, hard struggle.
Tavis: When you say you hope that we're going to get to a tipping point here in just a moment where things can be improved in Iraq, it reminds me of all the criticism that President Bush has received for leaving Afghanistan too soon and running into Iraq. When I hear you explain how Afghanistan, as you saw it, has in fact turned the corner, but you contrast that with--again, my word, not yours--the drama you saw in Iraq, did the president pull up stake, leave Afghanistan too soon, and witness the drama that we still see happening in Iraq? Did he leave too soon out of Afghanistan?
Collins: I don't think so. It's always easy to second-guess particular decisions, but our presence in Afghanistan still is a strong one, and we are working very hard with the Afghan people to help them. They've completed free elections. And I guess one of the biggest contrasts to me is, everywhere we went in Afghanistan, wherever we were talking to people, they kept saying, 'Thank you. You've made everything possible for us.' Their fear is that we will leave too soon, but our presence is still strong and essential in that country. But I am very optimistic that the Afghan people are going to make it, that they're embracing democracy enthusiastically, but they do need some monetary help, no doubt about it.
Tavis: To your point about the Afghanistan people who think that we might leave too soon, contrast that with Iraq where there are a number of people who think we are not leaving soon enough. So how soon should we leave Iraq, and what ought the exit strategy to be, and do we have an exit strategy?
Collins: The key to our ultimately being able to leave Iraq is the success in training Iraqi forces to take over fully the responsibility for security of that country. We're not there yet. There have been a lot of problems in training and recruiting the Iraqis, in part because so many of them have been intimidated by the insurgents who threaten them and their families with death and destruction if they join the Iraqi security forces. But I am encouraged by the performance of the Iraqis during the recent elections. Not only were millions of Iraqis bravely casting their votes for the first time, but the Iraqi security forces provided the front lines of defense and were able to successfully secure the polling places. I hope that's gonna give them the confidence to go forward and accept this responsibility. In addition, we have our troops working side by side with the Iraqis to train them, to equip them. But that's really the key. The key's gonna be the ability of the Iraqi security forces to take over that responsibility and the ability of the government to provide a multiethnic, diverse government with respect for minority rights.
Tavis: With that said, let me ask you to level with me. Not that you haven't been frank and honest already, but let me ask you since you've been there now a couple of times to share with me what mistakes, honestly, you think we did make in Iraq. What did we do wrong in Iraq?
Collins: That's an excellent question, and again, hindsight is always 20/20, but if I had to point to a particular mistake, there would be two that I would cite. One is I think we made a mistake in disbanding the Iraqi army so completely. I understand what the Iraqi army stood for in the years of Saddam Hussein, but many of them were conscripts. Many of them did not buy into Saddam's vision in any way, and I think to automatically exclude and disband all of the army was a mistake.
Second, I think we were not quick enough in giving the Iraqis true power to make decisions. In Afghanistan, we had this wonderful, strong, charismatic leader in Hamid Karzai. In Iraq, we had the provisional--the coalition provisional authority issuing decrees and run by Americans and some British help, and I think that that did not go over well. But again, it's awfully easy to point to what we might have done differently. Certainly we should all take pride in the performance of our military, which has been and continues to be extraordinary.
Tavis: In just a few seconds, let me turn gears somewhat-- somewhat gently here, I think, and ask you this as an exit question. There was a report just out that suggests that our aviation industry is still vulnerable to attack here stateside. I raise that with you because I mentioned earlier you are the chair of the Government Affairs on Homeland Security Committee on the Senate side. What do you make of this report that here, stateside, with all that we've talked about in this conversation about Iraq and Afghanistan, that our aviation industry's still vulnerable to terrorist attack?
Collins: I think that we've made a lot of progress in aviation security, but we still have a ways to go. But that's not the vulnerability that keeps me awake at night. It does concern me, but I think our number one vulnerability right now is our seaports. It's a lot easier to make an airport secure than a seaport. We have millions of cargo containers coming into our country each and every month, and I think that's the biggest challenge that we face as far as securing our homeland.
Tavis: Senator Susan Collins of Maine. Senator, nice to have you on. Thank you for your insight. Look forward to doing it again sometime.
Collins: Thank you very much. Nice to join you.
Tavis: Thank you for your time. Up next on this program, breakout music sensation John Legend. Stay with us.
Back to March 18, 2005