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Tavis: I am honored, although honored doesn't seem to do the job here. You see why. You see that gorgeous face, don't you? I am honored, delighted, pleased, I can't find the right word to welcome the incomparable Diahann Carroll to this program. Her remarkable career has been highlighted by a number of groundbreaking firsts, including her role on the TV series "Julia." That role made her the first black woman, black main character on a sitcom. A few years later, she would receive an Academy Award nomination for a memorable role in the movie "Claudine." Now, if you haven't seen "Claudine," here's just a small sample of why you should.

Claudine: Where do you think you are going all dressed up?

Charlene: A date.

Claudine: You ain't going nowhere, miss.

Charlene: Mom, Patrice can baby-sit.

Claudine: Baby-sitting ain't got nothing to do with it.

Charlene: Mama, I told Abdula I was gonna meet him--

Claudine: Who the hell is Abdula?

Charlene: Teddy. He changed his name.

Claudine: I don't care what you told Teddy or Abdula. Listen, if I find out that you've been sneaking out and seeing what's his name and smoking that marijuana, any of that--I mean it--black won't be so beautiful no more.

Charlene: You're just afraid I will come home pregnant.

Tavis: Is that still as good now as it was back then?

Diahann Carroll: I love it.

Tavis: You still love it?

Carroll: I really do. I have no shame.

Tavis: You still look just as great.

Carroll: Listen, thank you. I feel good. I do.

Tavis: Can I tell you, I got a bone to pick with you.

Carroll: Yes?

Tavis: I shouldn't say I've got a bone to pick with you. It's not your fault. Over the last three weeks, four weeks, you and I have been in the same room on three different occasions, but have not had a chance to speak. So I'm glad in this room tonight we can actually talk

Carroll: What happened?

Tavis: Once at Ossie Davis' funeral.

Carroll: Oh, yes, was that a wonderful service.

Tavis: A wonderful service it was. A wonderful service. You were there. We were just at two different ends of the cathedral. I saw you but couldn't get to you. Secondly, at "Today's Black Woman" in Chicago.

Carroll: You were there?

Tavis: I spoke.

Carroll: Are you one of today's black women?

Tavis: No, but I love today's black women, all of them. And I was at one end of the convention center, and you were on the other end. They said Diahann Carroll's in the building, and my assistant saw you, but I was rushing to catch a plane.

Carroll: It was a marvellous event.

Tavis: I loved that event. And then thirdly, which I was brought to tears by, when you and Sidney Poitier walked on stage recently at the NAACP Image Awards. You felt it. Did you feel this? That crowd--it was a standing, long ovation. Nobody had mentioned your names. The two of you just walked out on stage and that hall just erupted and it was a sustained ovation. And I hope you felt what we were giving you.

Carroll: We did. We both felt it. I think we needed to lean on each other for support, because it was a surprise. I thought the reception to our being a part of each other for that moment was a very good decision on the part of the producers, but I didn't expect that from the audience. We spoke about it...I guess it was day before yesterday we spoke about it. I was happy that we were there because of many things. I think young people, some of them understand that Sidney and I knew each other a hundred years ago and it's nice to see that one can progress in the business, and with one's maturity, and be friends. And that's what we have become, is really great friends. The ovation was--it made us so happy.

Tavis: I hope it did, because it was...people just would not sit down. They just kept clapping and clapping and clapping. But I suspect on some level, though, that must force you, for lack of a better word, to consider your legendary status in film and television. And when you confront that, maybe seeing "Claudine" causes you to confront that. What do you think about what you've been able to do over these many years when you get confronted with that reality?

Carroll: Sometimes, Tavis, it's a bit overwhelming, and you're not certain really that people are talking about you. It doesn't seem to me that it's been a 50-year period. It's just about a 50-year period.

Tavis: Especially since you're only 28.

Carroll: That's right. Well, actually, I'm going to be 31, but don't discuss that. It's really a lot to digest. Part of you is in denial. Part of you is very happy about it. And then I look at so many things about myself and my early career, and I think, who was she? What was she thinking about? That's why I'm in the process of writing this book now for Harper Collins. It's going to take a few years, and I don't want to examine it from the point of view...-I don't want any forgiveness about anything. I want to examine why I came to the decisions that I did during every step of my life. Also, what my parents were all about in terms of making me. I mean, my mother actually more than my dad had a sense of something out there that belonged to me. She felt that about me before I felt it about myself. So I think it's good. There's some funny, funny things that one--humor is the only thing that has kept me alive all of these years, and there's some very funny incidents, I think about integrating Beverly Hills and how it was done. Because I was about the first one to live in Beverly Hills. I think one other family or something. And watching that integration and watching where people came from and how they related to each other, all being slightly afraid of each other. Because there were not that many opportunities, so we all thought, oh, look who's moving into my territory. Hmm.

Tavis: To your point about being one of the first to live in Beverly Hills. And I think they're up to four or five families now. They're making progress over there, but that's another story.

Carroll: Is it that bad?

Tavis: I'm just teasing. All I know is I got pulled over driving through there one day. That's all I know, but that's another issue.

Carroll: So did I.

Tavis: That's another issue. Speaking of being one of the first to live in Beverly Hills, you have done so many firsts. As a matter of fact, I mentioned a couple of them, and I had my producer write a few of these down. First African American actress to start in a sitcom, I mentioned earlier, "Julia," back in 1968. The first black actress to replace a white performer on Broadway. "Agnes of God." The first black "B"--my mama's watching. I can't say that word. The first black "B" on television, "Dynasty." I was around to actually see that and loved you in that. The first African American to portray Norma Desmond in "Sunset Boulevard." You got up and down them steps every night. How you did it, I don't know.

Carroll: I don't either. I'm still suffering.

Tavis: But anyway, the first black--you've done so many firsts. There's an old adage I think of, Ms. Carroll, that says when and where I enter, when and where I enter, the whole race enters with me. I wonder whether or not you found that to be true and whether or not there is a certain pressure you have felt being the first to enter so many of these doors.

Carroll: Of course. It's a pressure that perhaps you don't acknowledge at first, but you will become aware of it. You know, Tavis, to me, I'm black. I've always been black. There's nothing I can do to make me anything but black, a black American. So when there were certain insults and so forth hurled at me about the kind of black. I'm the kind of black that my mother and father made me, and whatever it is that they decided they wanted to have as their child, a young lady, very forceful southern parents. That's exactly who I am. I've heard all sorts of complaints from different parts of the black community, different parts of the white community. I am what I am. I like--when I look back, I like it. I like it. I work too hard, if anything, but I enjoy the kind of representative that I feel that I am. I could have been a more open spirit to share, but I think that when I came along, we were all frightened. I know the people who came along before me were frightened.

Tavis: Scared of what? Scared of what?

Carroll: That you might replace them in this slots that they carved for themselves and those slots were hard to come by, and they were also very difficult to maintain. I understand that. No one was standing there with open arms waiting for me, let me help you with this piece of information or this guidance. No, you had to find it on your own. I may have been a little too closed down when those who were younger were coming along. I remember meeting you several times, and I think it was maybe the third time when I said, this young man has a sense of himself that is unusual and he's probably going to do unusual things, this Tavis Smiley. You have a feeling about people when you meet them, and particularly when they put themselves in front of you.

Tavis: I couldn't help but doing it. I wasn't going to pass that opportunity up. There's Diahann Carroll. Beeline every time I see you.

Carroll: That was very nice. But I think most of this that we're looking at today, most of it represents progress. Not all of it.

Tavis: What doesn't represent progress? Just give me one example of what you see happening in the business today where people of color are concerned that grieves you, that doesn't represent progress?

Carroll: At the risk of sounding like I have a sour grape mentality here, I don't understand the music business. It's not for me to understand.

Tavis: Well, you're not the only one who has that concern.

Carroll: I have a terrible problem with it, but I do know that it's a moneymaker, and I do understand that the people who are involved in the music business are about making money. So for me to think they're going to all of a sudden do documentaries or the equivalent thereof is ridiculous. I think our children are suffering, and I do believe that when we look at television at night, we have to be honest about the fact we haven't grown at all, and we are more segregated than ever, and that is depressing. The quality of what I had hoped would emerge from this thing called television, I can't say that I'm pleased about that. But I do--I'm just not--I don't want to say that just about the industry itself, because the whole culture, all of us, I call us the Taco Bell culture. And I know I'm going to get sued for saying that, but that's what I feel has happened to us. It's not as forward moving or as forward thinking as I would have hoped. A lot of things have happened. We have drugs in this country that there's no reason for you and me to sit here and discuss why they are here. We know why they are here. Because they make money. We could keep drugs out of this country. So I've gotten older and a lot of things have been--I've been disillusioned. But I also feel that there's a sense in young black people of their educational level, which has helped their inner security and their ability to attack the business community and say I that want it. I'm going to make it mine. And they do so. And they are much less insecure in that way.

Tavis: Let me ask you--I've got to get out here, 'cause I've got to save a little bit for Harper Collins. Speaking of suing , they're going to be suing me for getting all the good stuff out before the book is written. Let me ask you right quick whether or not, while on the one hand there are things that concern you, whether or not you remain hopeful about the future, certainly on behalf of your two grandbabies, who live in South Africa.

Carroll: How sweet of you to mention them. I do believe in us. I think human beings eventually, we realize how much of our lives we must control ourselves to some extent. We can't just leave it up to the powers that be, unquote. And that's a strong fight this point in our history, but I do see it happening. I mean, I do admire young people like--I can't pronounce his name. Puffy.

Tavis: Puffy. Sean. Sean Comes. That's what his mama named him. Mama named him Sean. I'm gonna call him Sean.

Carroll: I'm all right with Sean. I think it's wonderful what he has done with his life and his business, and others like him who have done that. And I feel going into the business place, into the area where--the larger arena, which is what you have done, is a very important step for us at this time, because we shouldn't wait any longer.

Tavis: I think you're right about that. I appreciate it. Let me ask you one quick question. Can I get a quick answer to this? When you and I first...-not first met, but first sat down for a TV interview when I was hosting a show on B.E.T., you did something that I have never forgotten and I've told this story a thousand times, obviously out of your presence. But you walked into my set, and you sat down, and you wanted to see your camera shot, and the shot wasn't right, and the lighting wasn't right. I don't know if you remember this now. You got up before we sat down and started the conversation and adjusted the camera angles. You made them shift the lighting.

You rearranged the entire set they'd spent hour doing, and I was, like, look at Diahann Carroll work. And the shot was infinitely better when you got done than it was when we started. And then after you got your shot right, you said now put the camera on Tavis. And you adjusted my makeup and you had my lighting adjusted, and I looked better when you got done. Just say anything right quick you want to say about the importance of image.

Carroll: Extremely, extremely important. You're young enough to be my son. And I walked on the set and I felt that both of us needed--

Tavis: You remember this.

Carroll: Oh, I certainly do. We looked much better.

Tavis: Yes, we did.

Carroll: But I learned this from the masters that would share with me. I think the first person that made this clear that this was my responsibility to take care of me in that way was Marlena Dietrich, and I never forgot it. For a period of time, I carried my own lighting with me just to make sure.

Tavis: Make sure you look right.

Carroll: Yeah, that's right. The folks want to see you that way, so let's give it to them. And by the way, you look beautiful.

Tavis: You look marvelous, Diahann Carroll. Nice to see you.

Carroll: It's a pleasure to be here.

Tavis: Glad to have you here.

Carroll: Always. Thank you, thank you.

Tavis: That's our show for tonight. I'll see you back here next time on PBS. Wish I had more time. God. I dedicate this show, though, tonight's show, to the memory, the life, and legacy of one Johnnie L. Cochran Jr., who was funeralized here in Los Angeles earlier today. Thanks for watching, and good night from Los Angeles, and keep the faith.