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Tavis: I am pleased to welcome Malcolm-Jamal Warner to this program. The former "Cosby Show" starhas his own prime time series now for CBS. The show, "Listen Up," also features former "Seinfeld" star Jason Alexander. The series airs Monday nights at 8:30. Here now, a scene from "Listen Up."

Bernie Widmer: Look, Tone, you're a great guy, and you make me laugh like nobody else in this world. But you are an acquired taste, and I just wasn't sure if my guys would get you.

Tony Kleinmann: I can see that. Spumoni's an acquired taste. It's not for everybody. Once it gets you, it's got you.

Bernie: Just exactly what I'm talking about. That don't make a damn bit of sense.

Tavis: Ha ha ha! What's up, Malcolm?

Malcolm-Jamal Warner: Hey, how you doin'?

Tavis: I'm doin' well, man. Nice to see you. How can you go wrong with a series like this? You got 2 stars from 2 of the biggest shows in all of television history. "The Cosby Show" and

"Seinfeld.' If this doesn't hit, you need to hang it up.

Warner: And that's what Jason keeps saying. "You know what, between me and Malcolm, we've got 107 years of television experience between us." But we're having a good time. Yeah, it's an awesome ride for both of us.

Tavis: I think this is Jason's second or third sitcom since "Seinfeld."

Warner: Yeah, his second.

Tavis: This is your fifth show since "The Cosby Show." You've grown up, obviously, but how has doing series work changed over the years for you? What have you noticed in terms of what you like about it, what you don't like about it, how the business has changed? 'Cause you've been on a number of sitcoms.

Warner: Yeah. Well, I still don't like it very much.

Tavis: Ha ha ha! So why do you do it, Malcolm?

Warner: The hard part about sitcoms is, you know, having to be funny day in and day out. And I'm having a ball with this show because Jason and I are both heavily involved in, you know, just in the direction of the show. But in terms of when I watch sitcoms in general, it's still, kind of, the same--a lot of it is just rehashed stuff. And that is the nature of the machine of the sitcom. But with this particular show, I'm having an awesome time because I spent 2 years up in Vancouver doing a show for Showtime called "Jeremiah," and it was a one-hour so it gave me a chance, for 2 years, to actually, uh, I keep saying feel like a real actor again because it allowed me to be serious, it allowed me to do dramatic work, it allowed me to blow some dust off some muscles that I hadn't got a chance to use for a while. So when I first got the call about coming back to, you know, to do another sitcom, I initially turned it down because I don't wanna do--you know, go into another sitcom that would ruin what took me 2 years, you know, to finally, what I call fix. And, you know, they still hadn't cast the part, so I got a call back, you know, a couple weeks later to at least come in and meet the producers. And, you know, I met the producers, I met Jason, and just from the get go we hit it off so well.

Tavis: You mention "Jeremiah" allowing you to feel like an actor again. People don't know this because I think most of us came to know you from "The Cosby Show," obviously. But you started out as a real actor in the "theater."

Warner: Theater, yeah. "Cosby" was my first comedy role. And that's the funny thing because people see my face, of course they think "Cosby," and they think ha ha. But I jump at any chance I get to, you know, to go back and do dramatic stuff because that's really where I started.

Tavis: Let me go back to the series right quickly. Those who've not seen the show with you and Jason, what's the premise of the show?

Warner: Well, it's based on the writings of Tony Kornheiser, who's on ESPN, "Pardon the Interruption."

Tavis: PTI and Michael Wilbon.

Warner: Yes, man. So this show is based on a--it's about a fictional character, Tony Kleinman, who is a sportswriter turned sports talk show host. So it's him and his best friend Bernie Widmer, and I'm Bernie, and we're both talk show hosts. And it's really about Tony Kleinman trying to juggle you know, not being popular, or not fitting in at work because, you know, his partner, me, is ex-NFL football player, dresses well, got a lot of money, drives all the cars, and just hip, everything that Tony's not. And then Tony's home life, he doesn't fit in because he has a 14-year-old daughter who hates his guts. So it's about this cat who just can't fit in wherever he goes.

Tavis: You know what's amazing about this. And I wasn't sure that you'd ever turn this corner, and I kinda felt for you, maybe I shouldn't have. It ain't like you didn't do well on "The Cosby Show," got money for a lifetime. But I kinda felt for you because I was wondering for years if people would ever let you grow beyond Theo.

Warner: Right.

Tavis: I get the sense now though that you're beyond that. I could be wrong. What's your feeling about that?

Warner: You know, that's something that--I had been obsessed with that even during "Cosby," which is why early on, I started directing. You know, when I left "Cosby," I left with about a half a dozen episodes under my belt as a director. I had been writing. I had been producing. And always been trying to go back to theater to keep my dramatic work up because I was aware, you know, even at 15 years old, how difficult the transition could possibly be from being kid actor to be taken seriously as an adult actor. So, it's something that I've been working toward, really for, you know, half of my life, if you will. So I think I'm finally at the point where people can see past Theo. But, you know, in a lot of cases, people can't. And my saying is it hasn't hurt Ron Howard that people still call him Opie.

Tavis: That's true.

Warner: So I'm good with it. And there are enough people who follow my work and follow my career who know that there is more to Malcolm-Jamal Warner than Theo.

Tavis: But the brothers and sisters still shout you out, "Theo" on the street, don't they? Theo!

Warner: And it's cool. 'Cause again, you can't knock it. Theo has been wonderful to me. And I think I'm OK with it because I have been able to go on and do so much other stuff beyond Theo that it doesn't bother me as much as it might otherwise, people calling me Theo.

Tavis: Speaking of Theo and "The Cosby Show," what were you thinking? How were you processing the controversy, for lack of a better word, that Mr. C., Mr. Cosby, stepped into when he started talking about this issue? I shouldn't say start. He started talking about it years ago. When the media...-the 'Washington Post,' and everybody else--picked up on Cosby talking about these issues of kids in the inner city, you were on his show, obviously, you worked with the man for years, how were you processing what Cosby was going through? Some folks agreed. Some disagreed, but he kicked up a nasty conversation.

Warner: Yeah. Well, I think the horrible part is that there was just so much of his speech that was taken out of context. 'Cause when I first heard it, I called him and asked him for a copy of his speech so I could speak intelligently on what he was saying. And, you know, this happened at the commemoration of the 50th anniversary of Brown V. Board of Education. So Mr. Cosby's whole point was how do we sit around and pat ourselves on the back and celebrate this achievement 50 years ago when amongst our inner city kids, we have a 50% high school dropout rate? Someone--you know, there are people who are not holding up their end of the bargain. And it's a 22-minute speech. And all you get are just certain clips here and there that are pretty much taken out of context. But I think when you look at what his point was, and, to me, it was ingenious of him to make that point at that particular commemoration because I agree whole-heartedly. We sit here and we talk about our achievements, and, you know, we glad hand and pat our own selves on the back. But let's look at the reality of what's happening in our neighborhoods. And, you know, Mr. Cosby is the only person who really had the cajones to get up and say something. At the end of his speech, he said, "I want you to be angry. I want you to be mad because I want you to want to do something about this."

Tavis: Speaking of black families, is your mama talking to you yet?

Warner: Oh. Ha ha ha ha.

Tavis: You know what I mean by this, don't you? The last time you and I sat for a television conversation, you had pierced your tongue...

Warner: Yeah.

Tavis: And your mama refused to speak to you for days behind the piercing of your tongue. So, what happened?

Warner: It was 2 good weeks. And it's funny, you know, because she's my mother and, you know, my manager, but she would...-you know, she would fax things to me, she would leave messages on my voice mail, but she was not speaking to me. And finally...I think, finally, you know, she realized that she wasn't gonna win that particular one. But, you know, 6 years later, I finally took it out.

Tavis: You took the tongue piercing out?

Warner: I took the tongue piercing out.

Tavis: OK, so your mama's happy.

Warner: Oh, she's ecstatic. And of course, when I did it, I didn't have to show her. I had to point it out to her. I spent a couple of weeks to see if she'd figure it out, never figured it out, so I finally told her, and she was elated.

Tavis: Oh, yeah. That's rough, though, when your mama won't talk to you for 2 weeks, and your mama is also your business manager, and she won't talk to you for 2 weeks.

Warner: She was hardcore with it.

Tavis: Yeah. Um, you mentioned that you're doing a lot more than just acting these days, and indeed you are. This music you're doing, "Miles Long..."

Warner: Yeah, man.

Tavis: First of all, hold that shot, Jonathan, just for a second. See, you can tell Theo is all grown up now, got his shirt all open, chest hair showing. Tell me about "Miles Long." You can take it down now, Jonathan.

Warner: That's--

Tavis: That's enough of that. This is PBS. That's enough of that.

Warner: That's called selling CDs by any means necessary. This particular CD I'm really proud of 'cause it's actually--it's totally self-distributed. Like, I literally sell this CD hand-to hand...

Tavis: Out the trunk of your car.

Warner: Literally out the trunk of my car. I sell it at shows, and we're actually playing at B.B. King's this weekend at Universal Citywalk.

Tavis: Here in the L.A. area.

Warner: Yeah. I sell it at shows, I literally sell it out the back of my car, and I sell it when I go to colleges to speak and perform poetry.

Tavis: And you play...

Warner: Play electric and upright bass and do spoken word.

Tavis: Now, when did you learn--when did you have time to figure out how to learn to play the standup?

Warner: You know, I started playing bass first season of "Malcolm and Eddie" because that show was so stressful for me--

Tavis: What year was this?

Warner: That was '96.

Tavis: So you've gotten good enough just in those years?

Warner: Yeah.

Tavis: To play publicly?

Warner: I started playing out a year after I started playing because I knew that if I stayed in my room just practicing scales through a metronome, you know, I'd get bored with it, so I immediately put a band together and started playing out to make me take it seriously and to make me really practice. And it's been, you know, 7 years later. Well, it's 2005, so we're talking 9 years later.

Tavis: You rollin'.

Warner: Yeah, man, yeah, and you can also get this at CDBABY.COM.

Tavis: CDBABY.COM. Listen up, y'all, CDBABY.COM. "Listen Up" the TV show airs 8:30s on Monday night on CBS. Theo is doin' his thang. Malcolm-Jamal Warner, nice to see you. Glad to have you on the program. Glad to have you anytime. That's our show for tonight. I'll see you back here next time on PBS. Until then, thanks for watching. Good night from Los Angeles, and as always, keep the faith.