E-mail a friendMaureen Dowd
airdate April 25, 2005
For 30 years, Maureen Dowd has written about the culture and politics of her D.C. hometown. She joined The New York Times in '83, after writing for Time and the now-defunct Washington Star. She's covered four presidential campaigns and served as White House correspondent. Dowd's Pulitzer Prize-winning series on the Clinton sex scandals made her a national media celebrity. In '04, she released her first book, Bushworld, and her latest, the controversial Are Men Necessary, explores the battle of the sexes.
Maureen Dowd
Tavis: Like millions of loyal "New York Times" readers, I suspect I look forward to Wednesdays and Saturdays as you do because that means a new column from Maureen Dowd is out. The Pulitzer Prize-winning writer pens some of the most thought-provoking and creative opinion pieces in the business. Her book 'Bushworld: Enter at Your Own Risk' is now out in paperback. I am honored, delighted, pleased--I can't hide it--to have Maureen Dowd on this program. Maureen, nice to have you on.
Maureen Dowd: Thank you.
Tavis: Let me start with the news of the day first of all. You have been on book tours, so you may or may not have seen this, but the Saudi prince was at the Crawford Ranch today meeting with President Bush. You have written extensively about the relationship between the Bush family and the Saudi royal family. What do you make of this scene today? And they were actually holding hands.
Dowd: They always hold hands. It's hilarious. The main reason that Bush needed this was because he had to kind of make it seem as though he was doing something about rising gas prices, because for most Americans it doesn't make sense that we invaded Iraq and, you know, it was supposed to be partly about protecting oil and now our gas prices are rising. So he was trying to get the Saudis to say that they would help us out there. But the interesting subtext of that whole meeting is that the father, Bush Sr., was very tight with the Saudis, and that was a real meeting of the minds. Because he loved the global men's club and basically Saudi Arabia is a men's club. So they got along fine. And he was very tough on Israel, and the son has split that and is very close to Israel and has not been as close to the Saudis. So they're always-- And the Saudis hate this whole democratization thing that W. has put into play. I was talking to a high-placed Saudi the other day, and he said, 'If I hear the word 'democracy' one more time, I'm going to vomit.' They hate this whole thing. So they want to watch Bush the same way he wants something from them.
Tavis: When you say hate, there are some who believe that you absolutely and vehemently hate the Bushes. Is that true?
Dowd: I don't actually, um... You know, I joke that I save emotions like animosity for my personal life. But I just don't think of politicians and people I cover in terms of those strong emotions. I mean, to me, it's a job where I try--you know, I don't know how to say it in a way that's less corny, but I believe in checks and balances, although the Bush administration doesn't, and Tom DeLay certainly doesn't. But I try to just watch them at the job and see if they are doing a good job or being phony, hypocritical, or hewing to their campaign promises. But strong emotions like that, for me, don't come into it because I don't write a partisan column. And I was just as tough on Clinton and Hillary.
Tavis: But how would one--how should one interpret the fact that as you watch this particular family closely, that 99.9% of the time, you don't like what they do?
Dowd: Well, I think I'm more anti-authoritarian, or what Dave Chappell calls me, a genetic dissenter. I just--
Tavis: Now that's a TV moment right there: Maureen Dowd quoting Dave Chappell on PBS. We have to hold that clip, Neal. Anyway, go ahead, Maureen.
Dowd: I mean, I have a great relationship with the dad. I covered him as a White House reporter for four years, and we email back and forth. He has a fantastic sense of humor and is a real gentleman. And W., you know, I got along fine with when I met him. And at the Gridiron Dinner the other night he gave me this wink, which was sort of this great, like, Bugs Bunny, Clark Gable wink of 'You know, I know what you're up to, and I've got your number. You think you have mine, but I'm gonna win,' you know. So I'm--I hope it's more of tweaking and a little sense of play. And also just that as journalists, you know, it's our job to make sure that people in power-- People in power tend to get tone-deaf, and they tend to go back on their campaign promises, as the Bushes did. And it's good to have someone kind of just watching and like, you know, throwing little rocks at their windows.
Tavis: One of the reasons why-- and I admit this, I can't hide this-- One of the reasons I root for you and other people like you, and I'm talking about women who get a chance to compete at the highest level of this boys' club and win and write some of the most provocative and creative and witty stuff that we could ever read. I love when a woman does that. I love when a person of color gets a chance to do that. I wonder whether or not it ever occurs to you-- Do you ever think about the fact that you are competing in this world, this boys' club. Or whether now you're at the point in your career where you just do what you do and it doesn't impact--you don't think about it in that way?
Dowd: Oh, no, it's horrible. I spent the first two years of the column just curled up in a ball on my floor crying. I mean, for a woman, it's completely different because you get hit with the castration thing. There's a joke in the new Woody Allen movie where they're working on a movie 'The Castration Sonata,' which would have been a good subtitle for this book. And Bill Clinton made a joke about me once. And it was something about that I had, after his dog Buddy was spayed, that I wrote a column called 'Buddy Deserved What He Got.' So as a woman you get to hear these words like 'biting' and 'cutting' and things like this, that make you sound like Sharon Stone in 'Basic Instinct,' whereas with a guy--like Safire and Friedman are tough, you know. So it's a little bit different.
Tavis: Does it ever get better though? Does it get better, or are you still fighting those same fights?
Dowd: Oh, no. It never gets better, because as a woman, you-- Well, I don't want to stereotype all women. But I want to be liked. So it's hard when you're basically writing a column, it's like being in a 'Godfather' movie. You know, you take one of theirs, they take two of yours. You go to the mattresses. And it's very intense. In the same way, you know, NPR recently had a thing that teenage boys on the basketball court are much more likely to trash talk, you know, than teenage girls, and men are much likely to be bloggers than women. And as you know, now we hardly have any women opinion columnists. So that trash-talking thing, it's hard for women to do.
Tavis: Isn't that a bit oxymoronic, though? I used to be--I used to work for Tom Bradley, the late great mayor of this city. And I remember being on the inside, working for a politician. And my job was to be liked and to represent a guy I wanted to be liked so he could get re-elected. Eventually I left that and became a commentator, and I went through hell just trying to adjust to the fact that, as a commentator, you can't be liked. And if everybody does like you, as a commentator, you ain't doing your job. So why do you still want to be liked at this point?
Dowd: Well, I just think that men are much better and don't take it as personally when you do this verbal dueling. That's what they do. They like to mix it up. Whereas I just think it's harder for women. I don't really want to be liked in the sense of getting to be friends with them, 'cause I hardly ever go out. I don't go to dinner parties very much. And I don't want to mix it up with them or be friends with politicians. It's not that. But it's just a hard way. It's just tough to be tough all the time.
Tavis: Well, I'm glad you came out to see me on this program. I got two minutes left. Let me throw a couple issues at you right quick and just get your top line here. These judicial nominees. Frist spoke, the Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist spoke to tons of churches via satellite yesterday. How did the church become like the center, like the public square now for political debate?
Dowd: I know. It's appalling. It's really hard for me to understand because I grew up in a house that worshipped JFK. And so we would hold our breath every time JFK--you know, religion would come up. It had to be kept absolutely out of his campaign or he couldn't get to the White House, 'cause there were all these, you know, Protestants who thought the Vatican would build a tunnel to the White House and that they'd be influencing the president. And now that tunnel is basically built, because the pope, this new pope is going to be very involved in politics. He was the one who sent the letter to the archbishop of Washington saying that Kerry should not receive communion, and that, if you voted for a pro-choice candidate, knowing that they were a pro-choice candidate for that reason, you were participating in evil. So he's a very politicized pope. So --
Tavis: Let me ask you right quick, on Iraq, even if now the ends justify the means?
Dowd: I do not believe that. Maybe because I've seen enough Shakespearean plays to know when you use that as your guiding philosophy at the end of the play, the stage ends up littered with bodies. I think you have to be very careful with that, and nothing will ever justify not telling the truth to the American people about why we went to war and getting up evidence and distorting that to go to war. Nothing justifies that.
Tavis: Finally, right quick, what's gonna happen on the Social Security debate?
Dowd: Oh, well, it looks like it's going down. Grassley is saying he does not--nobody on the Finance Committee wants to do it. So...
Tavis: The new book, now in paperback by Maureen Dowd, Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist for the New York Times is called 'Bushworld: Enter at Your Own Risk.' And for those who read her columns in the New York Times twice a week, you know that every time you pick up a column of hers you are reading at your own risk. But you also know that you will be enlightened, you'll be encouraged, you'll be empowered, and you will be entertained, as I was having you on this program tonight. Maureen, nice to have you here.
Dowd: Thank you, Tavis.
Tavis: It's my pleasure. Up next on the program, talented singer and actress, Erykah Badu. Stay with us.
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