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Tavis: Ray Lines is the founder and CEO of CleanFlicks, a Utah-based company that edits movie DVDs to remove material it says is unsuitable for children. The edited DVDs are popular with parents who want to prevent their kids from seeing explicit scenes in movies. They are not, as you can imagine, popular with Hollywood studios and filmmakers, who see the work being done by CleanFlicks as a violation of copyright laws. Ray Lines joins us tonight from Salt Lake City. Mr. Lines, nice to have you on, sir.

Ray Lines: Nice to be on.

Tavis: Let me start with the beginning. 'At the beginning,' I should say. Tell me how you got this idea to start doing what it is that you are doing before we get into it.

Lines: I had a lot of neighbors and friends back when the movie 'Titanic' came out on VHS. They knew I was in--I had a television background in editing facilities, and so they brought their copies of 'Titanic' to me, and they wanted me to take out the sex scene and the nude scene. So I did, and thing just snowballed into a big snowball.

Tavis: Tell me what your justification is for doing what it is that you do. How do you see the work that you're doing?

Lines: We feel that it is the right of anyone to go into a store like Wal-Mart and buy a movie, and when you buy that movie, it's your movie, and if you want to bring it to a company like CleanFlicks and have us edit it, or change it, or alter it, you perfectly have the right to do that and we perfectly have the right to do it for you. And so, we look at this as a service. We look at it as a win-win for Hollywood and for the American consumer. This is a product that Hollywood does not provide to people, and so we provide it for them.

Tavis: On airplanes, of course--I was just on one yesterday--we see these edited movies all the time as we travel across the country and around the world, because anybody, everybody, of course, on a plane can look up and see this, so we understand the rationale for them cleaning up movies on planes. Tell me why it is you think that Hollywood doesn't do that for places outside of airplanes.

Lines: Well, they do, actually. Every foreign country is allowed to edit Hollywood movies at their discretion, I might add. Also network television is allowed to edit these movies, and Amtrak, cruise ships. Airlines are just one source that is allowed to edit these movies. Now, we're taking it a step further. We're saying do we have the right in the privacy of our own home to watch these movies in an altered state? And the answer to that is yes--

Tavis: But--but isn't the difference, though, respectfully, when other entities edit these movies--American Airlines, United, whoever it might be--I assume, from what I've read, at least, they make those edits in association with the movie house?

Lines: That's what they-- That's what they claim. I used to work at a television studio--or television station, I'm sorry. And that just did not happen. And I know also from experience of living in a foreign country, it also doesn't happen there. They have the choices that they make when they make those edits. And our response to that is shouldn't I have the right in the privacy of my home to make those choices?

Tavis: But I don't want you to give you the right to bastardize or demonize or take out of context the material that I've done, so if I'm a director, if I'm a studio head, if I'm a writer, I might not be so happy with you editing certain scenes out that you might, for whatever reason, find objectionable, but it takes away from the story that I have written or the movie that I've directed, and so doing, you are not telling the story as it was meant to be told.

Lines: I understand that, but our point again is that when you sell copies of your work in Wal-Mart, you have to let the consumer do with that product what they would like. If you went to General Motors and bought a van and took it home, would you be allowed to change the seats, would you be allowed to take out the engine and put in a different engine or paint it a different color? And then if you did that, would General Motors come after you and sue you if you resold that van or if you rented out that van. A van that's designed by General Motors is something that is copyrighted. Those designs are all copyrighted, and they're produced by people who would say that they're artists, these people that designed these--these vehicles. And so, our point of view is do you have the right or don't you to buy a product in this country, alter it, transform it, change it, and then resell it or rent it out to somebody?

Tavis: Tell me more specifically how this works, 'cause you suggested earlier-- You mentioned Wal-Mart. You suggested earlier that people ought to have the right to go to Wal-Mart, buy a movie, and get CleanFlicks to clean it up. In reality, that's not really how it works. I don't go to Wal-Mart, buy a movie, and send it to you. Don't you go to Wal-Mart, buy these movies, clean it up, and then I can buy it from you?

Lines: There's multiple ways to do it. The scenario that you just mentioned is one way. But another way is for you to actually go into Wal-Mart and buy the movie, send it to us. We send it back to you with an edited version that accompanies that original copy that you paid $19.95 for. And so, we-- To me, it doesn't make any difference whether I buy it for you or whether you buy it for yourself. The result is the same.

Tavis: Here's what does make a difference, I think, and I'm just trying to get a better understanding of this. If everybody in America who wanted a movie cleaned up went out and bought...you mentioned 'Titanic.' Let's use that as an example.

Lines: Yep.

Tavis: Let's say there are 10 million Americans who want a clean version of 'Titanic.' 10 million Americans go to Wal-Mart. They buy it. 10 million Americans send you 10 million DVDs. You clean them up. You send them back. At least the studio that produced 'Titanic,' whoever it was--I don't know who it was. Whoever produced 'Titanic' is still making their money off the DVD sale.

Lines: That's--Yes.

Tavis: But if Ray Lines buys one copy of 'Titanic,' cleans it up, and starts making copies of it and selling it out of CleanFlicks, the studio is not making its money.

Lines: Oh, you are absolutely right, and that is exactly the opposite of what we do. We go buy one-for-one. So, if 10,000 CleanFlicks customers want 'Titanic,' I have to go to Wal-Mart, and I have to buy 10,000 copies of 'Titanic.' That's what I said at the top. This is a win-win for Hollywood. More people are buying 'Saving Private Ryan' or 'Schindler's List' or 'Titanic' now than ever before because every movie that we edit has to be accompanied with an original copy, so the ratio is one-for-one.

Tavis: Let me ask you to-- This is not your position to play, obviously, but I'm just curious as to what your opinion is about this. Tell me, then, if the studios are still making money, given the example you just offered, why it is, as a studio head, I would have any reason to be mad at Ray Lines. Why are they upset with you?

Lines: That, my friend, is the million-dollar question that I'd like to get an answer to myself. I have no idea. I can't understand why they wouldn't look at this and say, 'Go for it. As long as we are selling copies of our movies to the consumers, what do we care whether they play Frisbee with these movies or take it to a company like CleanFlicks and get it altered?' What difference does it make? They're making more money in the long run by us providing this service for people.

Tavis: I know this sounds oxymoronic when you talk about Hollywood, but let's just assume for the moment--don't laugh. Let's assume for the moment that it ain't about the money.

Lines: I'm sorry.

Tavis: I know, I know, I know. Let's assume for the moment it's not about the money, but, again, as a writer, as a director, as a studio head, I have a problem with Ray Lines taking my flick and doing whatever he wants to do with it. You define it as 'clean'--let me finish, though. What if I have a problem with you taking the flick and doing whatever you do with it, knowing--or believing that what you're really doing is promulgating certain religious or political values or beliefs, and I don't like that?

Lines: And I see that point, and I understand it. That's why Steven Spielberg would not allow network television to edit 'Saving Private Ryan,' and so two-thirds of the network affiliates in this country declined to show 'Saving Private Ryan' in its unedited form. And I understand that completely. And that analogy and that thinking would work wonderfully if we lived in the year 1940 where the only way could you see a movie was in a movie theater or wait till it came out on television. But we don't. We live in the year 2005 where you can get movies from anywhere. You can see them anywhere. You can get them on the Internet, in a video store, in a store like Wal-Mart. They're everywhere. And so our point of view is, if the consumer is allowed to buy this product, don't they have a right, if they want to, to alter it, to change it, to have a company like CleanFlicks provide that service for people that don't have the technology available to them.

Tavis: All right, let's go back to the money, 'cause you and I both know, since we laughed, it really is about the money. I'm just trying to understand, if I'm the head of a studio--maybe somebody will call me and tell me. If I'm the head of a studio, why wouldn't I just take your idea, put you out of business, and put out clean copies of everything I do and make more money?

Lines: That, again, is the million-dollar question. I would love to see that happen. This is why I started this in the first place. I saw a DVD demonstrated over 10 years ago. And when I first saw DVD, the neat thing about it was you could choose the version that you wanted to watch--a PG-movie or an R-rated movie changed into a PG or whatever. Hollywood's never gone that way. They've gone the opposite way. Now they give you the director's cut or the NC-17 version or the R-rated version. They don't go the opposite way. But I would love to see Hollywood do that. Unfortunately, A--I don't think they'll do it, and B--if they did it, they wouldn't do it to the standard that we do it, that our customers demand.

Tavis: Let me ask you right quick, before I let you go: What kind of money is in this business?

Lines: Well, that's yet to be seen. I believe--I mean, we're a small company. We've been doing this only for a few years. We offer a rental program on the Internet that's a growing thing. We also offer them in sales, so that people can buy the movie and send it to us get it edited. I think it has a lot of potential. There was an ABC News poll that said that half of this country would love to see an edited version of Hollywood movies made available to them. So we think it has great potential. I just want to add one thing: This is not just for kids. This is for parents as well. Most of our customers are watching these movies themselves, not just for their kids, but for them as well.

Tavis: Well, Ray Lines, I thank you for coming on. He is the founder and CEO of CleanFlicks. There are a bunch of lawsuits filed right now, so we'll continue to follow this story. But, Ray Lines, nice to have you on.

Lines: Thank you very much.

Tavis: My pleasure. Up next on this program, Eric Braeden, better known as Victor Newman, The Man on 'Y&R,' taking a special trip tomorrow. We'll talk about it in a moment. Stay with us.