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• Partnership for Youth Success program
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• Maj. Gen. Rochelle's bio

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Tavis: Major General Michael Rochelle is the commanding general of the United States Army Recruiting Command. In layman's terms, he is the Army's top recruiting officer. Currently, he's stationed at Fort Knox, Kentucky, just a few hours down the road from Fort Campbell, where as a young officer, I'm told, he served in the Army's famed 101st Airborne Division. He joins us tonight here on the west coast in L.A. General, nice to have you here.

Major General Michael Rochelle: Thanks. Nice to be with you, Tavis.

Tavis: Always nice to see a good military man. My dad was in the air force for 35, 36 years.

Rochelle: I know. I've heard that story.

Tavis: Guess I've told that story too many times. It's just I'm proud of my daddy. What can I tell you?

Rochelle: You should be.

Tavis: What can I tell you? Tell me what my dad understood 35, 37 years ago and you understood how many years ago?

Rochelle: 33.

Tavis: 33 years ago. What did you get, what did my African American father get 33 years ago that young men are not getting today? Particularly African American men. I notice these numbers are way down.

Rochelle: Those numbers are down, Tavis. Now, they've come down from 22% in 2000 to roughly parity with representation of African Americans in the American population, which is 13.4%. We're hovering at 14%. But to answer your question, what your dad got, what every young American gets--understands, I think is your question. What do they understand about military service is that it is a step up in the right direction and a means by which every young American can better themselves not just today, but for their contributions to American society in the future.

Tavis: One of the things I find interesting, and I just thought about this walking around the set preparing to talk to you. We live in the most--I'm telling you like you don't know this; you do the recruiting. We live in the most multicultural, multiracial, multiethnic America ever. The military, head and shoulders above any other outpost of opportunity in this country, has given young persons of color an opportunity to succeed. Were it not for the military, there would not be General Powell, et cetera, et cetera. The military has always been, as you well know, ahead of the rest of the society when giving people of color an opportunity.

Rochelle: Historically.

Tavis: Historically. So the point is, in the most multicultural, multiracial, multiethnic America ever, given that reality, why are these numbers down? It doesn't make any sense.

Rochelle: Well, the numbers are down for several reasons. First of all, we are in the strongest economy that we've seen in many, many years. 5.2% unemployment nationally is the average, and in some parts of California, I was in San Diego yesterday, 3.2%. So perhaps, and I would like to hope that African Americans as well as all other Americans are sharing in that prosperity. But there's no mistaking the severity of how the war is affecting Army recruiting across all ethnicities and races.

Tavis: That means what, that people don't want to enlist when they know that their chances of going to war are pretty high?

Rochelle: Well, there's a fear of loss of life, loss of limb, and that's a realistic fear. But the situation that we are in right now doesn't allow us to simply ignore the threat, as it were. It's there, it's prevalent, it's much more surreptitious than it perhaps has ever been in the past, the years of the cold war, and it's not going away.

Tavis: Give me your best pitch. You're recruiting me. You're trying to get me to join the Army or the military period, and I know that given the fact that in Washington--I'm not trying to get you involved politically. I'm just trying to get you to sell me on this. I know because I read the paper and I watch the news and we've changed how we engage the world militarily. We now engage in pre-emptive strike. If we think you have something, if we think you're going to hit us first, we ratchet up coming after you. Iraq, first example obviously. Exhibit A. So if I know that if I enlist, there's a greater chance now, that given this new pre-emptive strike policy we have militarily, that I might have to go to war. I don't want to die. I might want to serve my country, I might think it's honorable, it might be part of my family legacy, but I ain't trying to die, general. So how do you get me to understand or to believe that there are reasons that I should consider joining the Army?

Rochelle: Well, let me take it from a slightly different perspective. Rather than trying to sell you on joining the Army, let me attempt to communicate what we communicate to young men and women and most especially their influencers. That's the challenge we have today: the moms, the dads, the coaches, the counselors. It's the influencers who are urging caution, "Wait, no, let's not do this right now." So our advertising campaign right now, four new commercials launched on the 13th of April, is targeted directly toward those. And here's the message.

Tavis: OK.

Rochelle: As a consumer of America's magnificent liberties, you're a bright young man, you have lived in the most free nation on the face of the earth. Should you not also be a guarantor of those liberties, not only for yourself, but for our posterity? Indeed, you should. You represent the kind of individual, as many Americans do, black and white, Asian, Pacific islanders, all Americans, you represent the kind of young person who has the values that we respect, and we will imbue you with the Army's seven values: loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honor, integrity, and personal courage and make you a much, much better person not only for today, but for tomorrow as well.

Tavis: I'm not in the armed forces obviously, so I don't know this to be true, but if what I'm reading is true, if I'm to believe what I hear, because of these extended stays in Iraq and Afghanistan and other places around the globe, there has been question, obviously some issue for some time, as you know, about morale, not just in the Army, but in the armed forces more broadly. How do you get folk who are hearing and reading about the morale issues in the armed forces to want to, again, sign up to be a part of that, if they are hearing that the folk who are enlisted, if they have boys and female friends who enlisted who are anxious about trying to come back home as we speak?

Rochelle: Well, I'm not sure exactly what factoids people are listening to or reviewing, because in point of fact, one of the most prevalent indicators and reliable indicators of morale is retention, and Army retention is off the charts, especially for divisional installations. You mentioned my lineage with the 101st, and I'm awfully proud of that. Two times I served with that great division. But morale and retention among those forces who have deployed is higher than it is across the Army as a general rule. They are very much aware of the significance of their contributions, very much aware that they're serving the will of the American people, and they're proud and honored to do so.

Tavis: And yet there's a new enlistment strategy, I understand, that allows persons to enlist now and actually serve a less lengthy time.

Rochelle: Well, you're talking about a 15-month national call to service enlistment, for which we have Senator McCain to thank, as a matter of fact. It was a test program that we tested only in 10 regional cities, regional areas across the country for a couple of years, and we've now expanded it, hoping that it will help us attract young men and women who are willing to serve, want to serve, but may not want to commit to such a long period as a three-year or six-year enlistment.

Tavis: Let me shift gears somewhat slightly here. A lot of talk over the last few days about these base closings. Secretary Rumsfeld has put his list out there. Again, I don't want to get you to sink into the abyss of the political debate in Washington about these base closings, but tell me how I should, as an American, read the story about the fact that there is a significant number of bases that are going to need to be closed. How should I read that story?

Rochelle: Well, I think you should read it two ways. One, it will bring many of our forces back home, and I think that'll be good for recruiting because the more we have our young people coming into contact coincidentally or intentionally with soldiers, the better, in fact, they will come to understand what being a soldier is all about. Second point, I think you should read it, and the American people should perhaps read it as a means of getting rid of excess capacity, but also a reflection of how quickly our Army in particular and our military in general can deploy today to any place on the globe.

Tavis: Tell me how you deal with--and I know this is not your responsibility, but it is a burden, I suspect, you have to bear, when there are stories from time to time that come out about--horror stories, in fact, about recruiting violations, where we hear somebody has recruited someone who's mentally ill, we hear people being threatened over recruitment. How do you deal with--you must go to work and say, Oh, God, not again. How do you deal with these horror stories that come out about recruiting for the armed forces?

Rochelle: Quite frankly, I deal with it the same way every recruiter does and every responsible soldier. I mentioned our seven Army values. Those values are absolutely essential to us in terms of representing this values-based institution called the United States Army. And in word, deed, and certainly by implication, everything we do must reflect those values. So when we have individuals who, my way of saying it, drift off the reservation a little bit, it hurts all of us. It tarnishes the image of the Army, it hurts me to my core, as it does every recruiter, the overwhelming majority of which recruit observing those Army values every single day.

Tavis: I spent a good teal deal of time talking specifically about people of color. I'm fascinated by that, for obvious reasons. But tell me what kind of difficulty, what kind of challenges the Army is having with recruiting across the board, never mind race or color.

Rochelle: Well, we're only at 84.4% of our expected glide for this point in the year right now. That represents something of 6,600 short of where we should be against our annual regular Army admission of 80,000. That's a pretty steep hill to climb. We're doing everything we can by way of incentives, we're doing everything we can by way of taking all of our inducements up to the maximum level allowed by statute, the 15-month enlistment, as an example of having expanded that nationwide. We're going after this with everything we have. The challenge, however, is one of a spirit of volunteerism in the face of the all-volunteer force, which is experiencing its first true test in its 32-year history. I came into the Army in '72. The all-volunteer Army came into being in '73. This is the first time that it's really been tested. So it's a question of whether or not this generation and the generation that will follow will step up to the plate from a volunteerism perspective, from a patriotic perspective, consistent with whatever challenges we face, not just today, but in the future.

Tavis: As an American, how concerned should I be that these numbers, these goals are not being met?

Rochelle: Well, as a citizen, I think you should be quite concerned. Quite concerned.

Tavis: Does that mean that we, in the months and years ahead, will not have the personnel that we need to protect those liberties that you spoke of earlier?

Rochelle: Well, I'm certainly going to do everything I can and the senior Army leadership of the United States Army is doing everything it can do. But the American people really need to concern themselves with that patriotism that we see right now in a generation of young Americans, by the way, known as "millennials," and they're very patriotic. In fact, to give you a quick shorthand on it, they represent the closest analogy to the World War II generation of any generation of Americans since then. So if we're not able to induce them to step up to serve the patriotism that's required in the face of this global war on terror, what about the next generation? So I ask you somewhat rhetorically, how concerned do you think you should be?

Tavis: Yep. Let me ask you how--let me put this right. It seems to me that there is a danger--I don't mean to cast aspersions on the Army here, but there's a danger that if these numbers remain low, and if the challenge, the hill that you mentioned earlier you have to climb remains as steep as it is, one could potentially, one could potentially--one could see ostensibly the Army not getting the kind of recruits it really needs, not being able to convince the best and the brightest to join the armed forces. Am I then to believe that to make these numbers work, you're going to do the best you can with what you have, which means that you might not have the best and brightest force to put out there on the field.

Rochelle: No, we're not going to sacrifice quality, because we ask far too much of our young soldiers today, men and women who are serving.

Tavis: But if the incentives don't work, then what's the alternative to sacrificing quality?

Rochelle: Well, that's the question for the American people.

Tavis: Right.

Rochelle: That's precisely the question. We're going to go after the both legislative relief and the resources necessary to be successful. Because the all-volunteer force is all about the quality, providing the best quality fighting force for whatever confronts Americans and Americans liberties today and in the future.

Tavis: Is there something that the Army could use from Congress that it's not getting right now to help you climb this steep hill?

Rochelle: Well, I don't want to speak for that. There are things being considered right now above my level, for which I have some input, of course, but there are some things that are being considered as we go forward into fiscal year '06, which my predictions indicate may be even a tougher year for recruiting than fiscal year '05, which ends on 30 September.

Tavis: I'm laughing when you said above your level. I've seen your--I see all the stuff you've got on, the stripes and the years of service. Ain't much above your level, General, but anyway, it's nice to have you on.

Rochelle: Tavis, thank you for the opportunity. It's an honor.

Tavis: I'm glad to have you. You're welcome any time. Up next on this program, from "The West Wing," actress Janel Moloney. Stay with us.