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• Article on "krumpin'"
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Tavis: Tommy the Clown and Dragon are two of the talented young men from South Central Los Angeles credited with creating a new dance phenomenon known as clownin' or krumpin'. The kinetic dance style is the subject of a new film from director David LaChapelle and is receiving rave reviews. The movie called 'Rize,' opens in a number of cities around the country this weekend. Check out a scene from 'Rize.'

Dragon: If you're drowning and there's nothing around for help but a board floating, you're gonna reach out for that board. And this was our board.

Singer, singing: ...acting popular, face painted like a warrior...

Dragon: And from this board, we floated abroad, and we built us a big ship. And we're gonna sail into the dance world, the art world. We're gonna take it by storm because this is our belief. This is not a trend. Let me repeat--this is not a trend.

Singer, singing: you never seen pain expressed like this...

Tavis: Tommy, Dragon, how you livin', man?

Tommy: Man, we livin', breathin'.

Tavis: Nice to have you both here. You have gotta be blown away--I'm gonna get to what clownin' and krumpin' is, 'cause my mama is like, "Clownin'?" My mama thinks it's the clownin', what I was doing in church when I should have been paying attention. That's a whole other issue, though. We gonna get to clownin' and krumpin' in just a second. But how surprised are you at how this movie--the buzz around this movie--it's just taken off. It has a life of its own.

Tommy: Man, it's amazing. I'm really surprised that after all these years that it finally happened, that people could see what's been going on inside of--the sweetness of the ‘hood, and now it's here.

Tavis: Yeah. You know you've blown up when you're doing something called clownin' and krumpin'.

Tommy: Heh heh heh!

Tavis: And you end up on the pages of the 'New York Times Magazine.' I don't know if--Jonathan, can you get this? I was on a plane coming back on Sunday from somewhere, Chicago I think, and going through my 'New York Times' newspaper, and here in the 'New York Times Magazine' is a whole spread of pictures and--I won't hold it there, but pictures and a long story on the cover of the 'New York Times Magazine.' So this thing has really taken on, again I say, a life of its own. Tell me what clownin', what krumpin' is.

Tommy: I mean it's like--It's a form of expression, freestyle, that started as--I started as a party clown, as Tommy the Clown going through the neighborhoods--

Tavis: Now when you say Tommy the Clown, you mean actually in the clown garb.

Tommy: In the clown gear, full color wig with the hip-hop clown suits, going through the neighborhoods doing birthday parties for kids, actually being the excited clown at birthday parties, and when I started doing that, it started spreading. Everybody was attracted to it. I was like a magnet that was drawing in these kids that wanted to do what I do. I created a hip-hop clown, and from then it spread like wildfire.

Tavis: What made you different--and we're seeing some video here now--but what made you different as a clown dancing than a typical dancing clown? Anybody's ever seen a clown--we've all seen clowns dance--What made your thing different than what folk were used to seeing?

Tommy: Yeah, you've got the regular clowns that come to the party be like, "Hey, kids, hi! You want a balloon? You want face paint?" And it's just like, you know, it's dorky per se and like that, but when I was created, when I did the party, I came with a hip-hop twist, knowing my people like dancing. I had like the car, green mustang with loud music that attracts people's attention, the hip-hop vibe, and I jump out, walk on my hands, flip, dance, and it was attracting. It was like, "Un-uh! This is not the ordinary."

Tavis: This ain't Barnum and Bailey.

Tommy: No!

Tavis: Ha ha ha!

Tommy: Then it just went crazy after that.

Tavis: All right, so, Dragon, you're featured in this project 'Rize.' Krumpin' evolved from clownin'. So Tommy just broke off the clownin' piece. Tell me about krumpin'.

Dragon: Krumpin' is, like he says, a form of expression. Comes from inside here, from inside your spirit. Much like, you know, people dance at a church under the Holy Ghost, it's just like a feeling. It's undescribable. So, you know, the word that we use, "krump" is just like--the word is like--there's nothing really to describe it, so we chose, you know, "krump" as the word. It's kind of getting your aggression out, just whatever you're feeling inside. It frees you from all issues. It frees your spirit up.

Tavis: Mm-hmm. When you say, "getting your issues out," there are a lot of folk who in South Central, where we live and work, talk about clownin' and krumpin', Tommy, as an alternative to gang activity.

Tommy: Well, you've got to understand that in South Central, gang and drugs run rampantly, and when I created this world, it gave them an alternative because kids wanted to do that. I didn't hire as part of my team gangbangers and people that could've been out there killing that came from the gang world into this clown world, and then it's been happening. I feel a battle zone was created. There was a big show at The Forum that we sold out, and we did like 3 or 4, 5 of those--

Tavis: Back up. I'm gonna stop you for a second, because what you just said is significant. I think a lot of people missed that. The Forum in Inglewood, right outside of L.A., is where the Lakers used to play when Magic was representing back in the day; they won all those games, as everybody knows, in The Great Western Forum. Y'all sold The Forum out. 16, 17,000 folk. Y'all sold out The Forum for a clownin', a krumpin' contest, a battle. Tell me what happened that night.

Tommy: I mean it was like--people as it was spreading--we did ground promotion. Jumping out, passing out flyers. "The big showdown, the big battle zone, Tommy Clown battles." And then these kids came, and--and it was like the amazing show where there was the intense fare, and when you own the battlefield, it's like your enemies. You know, it's like your game then, that's your--But it's on a positive tick because you're trying to destroy each other on the battlefield with these aggressive moves, the anger that comes out, but afterwards, oh, you hug like, "Man, you got me," and stuff like that.

Tavis: I guess for folk dragging along there, for folk who are still trying to grasp this and get this, this is a dance version--Is it fair to say it's a dance version of what they saw in the movie 'Drumline'? You've got these black--You've got these bands at historically black schools competing. Is that kind of what this dance contest is like?

Dragon: In that sense it's exactly that, where you have your crew and then, you know, another crew and you just come together in friendly competition, but it's aggressive. It's not watered down. It's full out, you know, going at each other's throats, but afterwards it's a sense of camaraderie. You know, it's an unspoken rule, you know, afterwards you leave the issues on the dance floor. You know, we don't hate each other afterwards. We actually love each other, and we push each other to be better.

Tavis: So you can actually, Tommy, just like the gang situation or similar to that, you can have folk from different sets, from different neighborhoods who actually do the battle around who can clown and krump; the best rather than who can off each other with a weapon.

Tommy: Absolutely. Absolutely. These kids going to--We do a show once a month. These kids come here actually to destroy, and they call you on the phone like, "Man, I want to be--" I even have kids with beef. I mean beef to where like this dude saying he's this and that, and it's like they don't say, "Well, let's just go outside and fight about it." It's like, "Let's go to the battlefield." I had a guy come up at the last show and got on the microphone, and, "I want to call this dude out because, Tommy, he's saying that he's me," and whatever, "and let's call and settle." They can do all the aggression like they're fighting, swing in the air like you trying to like--he felt like he knocked him out with a dance move, and then it's like--want to say, "Oh, the winner is--" He walked away like, "OK," and then the respect coming like, "You got me, man. All right, man, I ain't gonna call you beef."

Tavis: Explain to me, Dragon, how you think it is--I mean, this is a world of difference. Talk about night and day. From taking it to the streets with your assault weapons and taking one another out and killing innocent folk in drive-bys to krumpin' and clownin', those are 2 diametrically opposed worlds. I'm trying to figure out how something like dancing as an expression can even remotely take the place--which I think is a good thing obviously--of folk settling their differences with weapons in the streets.

Dragon: It--only--I give credit to God for it, because, um, you know--how the world is and, um, you'd think of it as in the world and the industry, so to speak, music and dancing and the hottest videos are what everyone's, you know--what fashion is revolved around, what the hottest cars are revolved around. That's where all the publicity is. And I think, you know, in a sense, we are all ministers of the gospel and, you know, it's just like, I think we're covert agents for--you know, for Christ, 'cause we go in, and people are attracted to what we do, but it's a different flavor. We're not in a suit and tie. We're not, you know, bashing anyone over the head with judgment. It gives everyone a chance to--It's eye-catching. It's like, "Man, what is that?" It makes you wanna become a part of that, and--and I think it's just like--like you said, the night and day situation. Rather than aggressively take it out on someone and taking out innocent bystanders, you get to the person, you get to the issue, and the issue is not the person, it's just what you're feeling inside.

Tavis: I wonder, Tommy, whether or not, again, since this has become the new rage and taking the place, thankfully--Something needs to take the place of these kids running out to be a part of a gang. You know as well as I do, since we both live and work there, that part of the reason why kids join gangs--not to rationalize it--but it's to be a part of a family.

Tommy: Absolutely. That's--

Tavis: Does the clownin' and krumpin' thing provide the same...

Tommy: That's--that's it. It's that, you know, with the gangs, you--you seem at home, as they--you know, you're being a part of something. That clown world, it's the same thing. We have these kids live with us, stay in our houses. They comin' from broken homes, comin' from places where they parents are in that type of bad, negative type world that they don't wanna be a part of, and when we can--we can give them something to show them, "Hey, you don't have to do that," and it makes--It motivates them, you know. In south central L.A., a lot of kids don't have--we don't have the funding, we don't have the things to make it big enough to accommodate the kids that need it. It's a--I can have 1,000 kids in my crew, if I had...

Dragon: Had the space for them.

Tommy: If, you know...

Tavis: Some of these moves are suggestive. These kids are very creative when they dance. In the film, you see some young girls who are gettin' they groove on, gettin' they clown, gettin' they krump on. How do you respond to folk who say, "Those moves are just a little too suggestive for some of these young 10-year-olds and underage...'?

Tommy: Well, in the film, you're seeing a part of the movie that's showing that--a part of a dance that has happened that's not happening now with this krump world. The krump is more aggressive, more, you know, intense, and it's more entertaining that we bring out to the kids that we don't--we don't allow that type of suggestive type moves like that. But that--When they explained in the movie about the stripper dance, per se, that was just to show a style that swarmed through California.

Tavis: Let me give you the last word in 30 seconds here, Tommy. Tell me what you think, in a perfect world--in a best-case scenario, what is going to come out of the exposure that this film 'Rize' is going to give to clownin' and krumpin'? What do you hope comes out of this?

Tommy: I hope it gives an opportunity to these kids to know that no matter what negative part of life they in, they can rise out of it with this movement. We took something that we created that we didn't let the world bash us down with, and we just kept going for it with our creativity and our talent and we moved forward, and we know that we can rise to the top.

Tavis: Clownin' and krumpin' and now a movie that the whole world will see. It's a long way from Transamerica, ain't it?

Tommy: Ha ha!

Tavis: Tommy used to work at Transamerica when he got the idea to do all this. He left Transamerica and put on a clown outfit, literally, and the rest, as they say, is history. Tommy, nice to see you. Dragon, nice to see you as well. That's our show for tonight. A reminder--you can catch me on the radio, public radio, this and every weekend on PRI, public radio international. Check your local listings. I'll see you back here next time on PBS. Until then, good night from L.A. Thanks for watching. Get your clown and your krump on and keep the faith.

For more information on today's show, visit 'Tavis Smiley' at PBS.org.

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