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Tavis: Sherry Bebitch Jeffe is a respected political analyst and senior scholar at USC's School of Policy, Planning, and Development. She's also a contributing editor for the "L.A. Times." Some breaking news about the "Times" we'll talk about in just a second here. Contributor for the "L.A. Times," with frequent pieces on politics and media. Nice to have you here, Sherry.

Sherry Bebitch Jeffe: My pleasure, Tavis.

Tavis: So we heard hours ago that the John Carroll, the longtime editor of the "L.A. Times" and winner of many Pulitzers under his watch, has left, resigned--or resigning from the "L.A. Times," and I'm told that an African American who you know, for the first time ever, a person of color will be the editor of the "L.A. Times."

Jeffe: Dean Baquet, who's a very well-respected journalist who came from "The New York Times" to the "L.A. Times," and he's been there. He's been in charge, I believe of page one coverage. I think he wouldn't have come from "The New York Times" if he didn't know or at least implicit in his deal was that he would move up the ladder, so this does make sense. I don't know the reason for John Carroll's resignation. I know that he was well-respected by the news staff, by the editorial side, and he will be missed. But Baquet is a strong choice.

Tavis: If it comes from Sherry, Sherry's endorsement, that's a good thing.

Jeffe: OK.

Tavis: I'm glad to hear there is diversity, increasing diversity at the "L.A. Times."

Jeffe: Oh, there must be.

Tavis: Increasing diversity at the "L.A. Times." One cannot say the same of the U.S. Supreme Court.

Jeffe: No.

Tavis: With all due respect to John Roberts. First of all before I get to what I want to talk to you about, essentially what President Bush did not do, three things at least he did not do with this appointment--before I get to that, though, tell me whether you were, as I was and others, surprised by the announcement.

Jeffe: By the time the announcement was made, I have to say in all honesty, the surprise was a little less, because I was in touch with Washington, people in Washington through the day, and it narrowed down to John Roberts and Priscilla Owen. Now, I must tell you, I knew nothing about John Roberts, and in that sense, yes, I was surprised. But I did take a look at his résumé, Tavis, and if you can pull ideology and diversity and everything else out of the mix and look at him on paper, he's a pretty hefty nominee. He does have an excellent résumé. It is as though he is trained to be on the Supreme Court.

Tavis: When you say hefty, obviously that word is subjective.

Jeffe: Of course it is.

Tavis: Certainly for those who will be studying him on the Judiciary Committee. When you say hefty, what are you suggesting?

Jeffe: I'm talking about how he came up the judicial ladder, his work at Harvard, his work at Harvard Law. His work on the "Law Review, his, what was it, 11 years in government. Interestingly, you knew where he was coming from just by looking at that. He had worked in the Reagan administration. He'd worked in the first, dad Bush administration. He worked for Ken Starr. He clerked for William Rehnquist when Rehnquist was an associate justice. And I believe, if he is confirmed, it will be the first time in history that a justice and a former clerk to that justice serve on the same Supreme Court, which is kind of interesting if you think about it. It also tells you something, I think, about the way Roberts might rule. But you know, in terms of the recommendations, bipartisan recommendations, it was a very shrewd political move--and we can talk about this--on the president's part. He got 146 Republicans and Democrats to support him at his last confirmation hearings for the appellate court. He looks like a really good appointment in the sense that he's trained for the court. Then we can get into what he "looks like" looks like, the diversity question and the ideology question. But that's to come.

Tavis: Let's get it--no, it's to come like right now, so let's--let's get into it. Three things, at least--two or three things, by my view, at least, that the president did not do with regard to this appointment. The first and most obvious--and I must tell you, quite frankly, Sherry, watching television last night, and I was flipping--I've got three TVs in my house, and I'm flipping all of them at the same time, and I was stunned, quite frankly, at how quickly the conversation turned. Everywhere I looked, people were talking about him, which is understandable.

Jeffe: Of course.

Tavis: Which is understandable.

Jeffe: He's the news.

Tavis: Of course, but everybody forgot about the fact that this is a woman who's retiring--

Jeffe: Not everybody, Tavis. You should have watched Channel 4, KNBC.

Tavis: That's local. I'm talking about the national stuff. You were doing this. On the national stuff, everybody forgot right quick that he's replacing the first woman on the Supreme Court. Bush chose not to do that. All the pundits I saw last night, with all due respect, with all due respect, were white males who had seemed to forget--

Jeffe: Usually the case.

Tavis: They forgot that point. Am I missing something here?

Jeffe: Oh, I don't think you're missing something here. I think that the message that the president was trying to send was that he didn't care, gender wasn't an issue, diversity wasn't an issue.

Tavis: But Laura Bush said she wanted a woman.

Jeffe: Well, that softened it, didn't it? He considered women, he considered blacks, he considered Latinos, and, gee, he picked the guy who was closest to the president's ideology and the president's thought about what judicial philosophy ought to be on the Court. And, you know, the first thing I said when I heard his name, I said not only has he picked a white male, he's picked the whitest of the white males on the list. I mean, he looks like Middle America. He looks like a country club Republican. Now, I'm not putting a value judgment on that. I'm just saying that's the perception of him. Were the white guys who were doing the punditry missing something? No, I don't think so. I mean, because Roberts and where he will be going and who he is, that's the focus now. It's not about the fact that the president did not replace the first woman Justice with another woman. What Bush was telling us is it's not about gender, it's not about diversity, it's all about ideology. And the signal he has given is what he wants to do is to move the Court to the right.

Tavis: OK, but, Sherry, Al Gonzales, the now Attorney General, is one of his best friends. One has to assume that their ideology is in sync. They've been together for a number of years. Tell me how one passes up the opportunity...-this is not an endorsement from me for Al Gonzales, but how does one pass up the opportunity--unless you know Rehnquist really is going to retire. How does one pass up the opportunity to put the first Hispanic...-with your first pick, to put the first Hispanic on the U.S. Supreme--how do you pass that up?

Jeffe: You hit it right on the head. One, I do think at some point in the not-too-distant future--I don't know, weeks, months--Chief Justice Rehnquist will retire. I think at some point he's just going to have to retire because he can't take the load. OK? So you're gonna have a second appointment. If you're a student of history, you look back to George Herbert Walker Bush. He had two appointments. First, Anton Scalia. Second, he nominated Robert Bork. Well, Scalia passed with flying colors. He just was, zoot, onto the court. Bork created havoc. And the thought apparently in this Bush White House was let's get the really rough one out of the way first, the one we owe the conservatives. Then you can put an easier nominee up for confirmation. And I think that's a part of it. And I wouldn't rule out Gonzales, a woman, a black for the next one. I was kind of surprised that Larry Thompson was not considered--

Tavis: Who had been number two at the Justice Department.

Jeffe: Exactly, and an African American. I mean, he's conservative. The president is comfortable with him. He didn't make the cut. Why? I think the conservatives screamed and yelled, and this is theirs.

Tavis: Let me ask you, to that point, to your point now, "This is theirs," does he satisfy with this appointment what the conservatives wanted?

Jeffe: It depends on the conservative you talk to, but by and large, yes. They believe that Roberts is anti-abortion rights. They believe he's tough on law enforcement. He's made some rulings which indicate that he's in line with basic conservative stands and basic conservative values. So I think they're ready to let this one go by, and that might well mean that the president will have an easier time with them if for the second appointment, he goes more to the center, he goes more for diversity. I mean, this is so very Bush...-contradicts conventional wisdom all the time. And I think he can turn to the conservatives and say shut up.

Tavis: Even his dad, though--and again, we have to assume at the moment that Rehnquist is serious about staying on.

Jeffe: Well, yeah.

Tavis: You have to make that assumption. And I agree with you that it may happen, but at the moment he's still there. You know you got one appointment. You don't know for certain that you will get two.

Jeffe: We don't know he didn't know for certain, Tavis.

Tavis: Well, that's very true. Point well taken. But what we know is that he had one.

Jeffe: Yes. There was one on the books.

Tavis: Exactly. Even his dad, speaking of George Herbert Walker Bush, even his dad knew that he had to replace, or felt the pressure to replace, Thurgood Marshall with another African American. As a woman, the logic can always, the argument can always be made it ain't about gender, it's about the most qualified person. Why can't the most qualified person be a woman and...

Jeffe: Look at the selection and look at what the president might have gone through in his decision-making process. Apparently, Edith Clement raised the hackles of his conservative base. Why? Because she really didn't have a paper trail. And everybody was looking back to David Souter, and the conservatives yelled we don't want another David Souter.

Tavis: Sure, this guy is 50. Roberts ain't got a paper trail, either.

Jeffe: Hold on. Hold on.

Tavis: OK. All right.

Jeffe: He's got more of a paper trail than she did.

Tavis: That much more.

Jeffe: The other woman being considered was Edith Jones, who is hard right, hard anti-abortion rights, and was likely to rev up the Democrats and the liberal groups. It would have been way more bloody than this guy. Remember, this guy is a member of the Washington establishment, and, you know, everybody on the Hill knows that the Washington establishment is not going to go off and foam at the mouth. So he was probably the easiest true conservative to be nominated, to be confirmed. And I think that went into the president's decision-making.

Tavis: All right, so all things considered and finally--and I'm asking questions here because that's what I do for a living--you believe, though, as do many other pundits now and analysts, that this was perhaps one of the most shrewd moves that this White House could have made?

Jeffe: I think so. For a lot of reasons. We talked about some of them and the switching of the bad and the easy, if you will. But it's also he's comfortable with it. The Democrats don't know what to do, because the guy--Roberts just doesn't look like a demon. You know, this is a guy who's pretty good-looking. It wasn't an accident that Bush introduced him in prime time for a whole lot of reasons. So the Democrats have to got to figure out if they don't want him, how do they make the case? It's going to be really tough. You saw the little boy, his son up there dancing in front of the president and his wholesome wife. They, his family has been referred to by some as the conservative Republican John Edwards family.

Tavis: I thought the same thing when I saw him walk out.

Jeffe: You know, there you go. The president really pulled a sharp one on this one. And I have to think that the second appointment, when and if it comes--and it's more when...may be a little less a bone to the conservatives and a little bit more in the style of Sandra O'Connor.

Tavis: Well, if nothing else, this gives us a lot of stuff to talk about, doesn't it, in the coming days. Heh heh. We'll have a lot of fun with it. Sherry, it's always nice to have you on.

Jeffe: My pleasure, Tavis.

Tavis: Nice to see you. Up next on this program, Pulitzer Prize-winning author Jared Diamond. Stay with us.