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Tavis: Even if I weren't from Indiana, it would be a great honor to have John Mellencamp here with us tonight, and so it is. But it's always nice to be joined, of course, by a fellow Hoosier. 20 years ago this month, the Grammy-winning musician co-founded Farm Aid. The fundraising concerts have raised now more than $25 million. A 20th anniversary event is scheduled for September 18th. His terrific career in music includes a long list of hit songs, classic songs like Jack And Diane, Pink Houses, and Small Town. Those songs and many more are just some of the stuff you'll get on this new CD, Words & Music: John Mellencamp's Greatest Hits. The CD also features some new tracks. This is a long way from Washington, you play at the Bluebird in Bloomington, but it's nice to see you, John Mellencamp.

Mellencamp: Thanks for having me.

Tavis: (laugh) It's one of these surreal moments when you go to school, you see a guy playing all around town, and he blows up huge, and you end up with a TV show, and you get a chance to talk on national TV. So, glad to have you.

Mellencamp: Well, we're both pretty lucky guys, aren't we?

Tavis: We are very fortunate, both of us are. Glad to have you here. How are things back in Indiana?

Mellencamp: Everything is as cool as can be.

Tavis: Yeah.

Mellencamp: It was hot this summer, though.

Tavis: Hot summer?

Mellencamp: Yeah.

Tavis: First of all, congrats on the new CD.

Mellencamp: Thank you.

Tavis: You feeling old yet when you got a greatest hits collection?

Mellencamp: Man, I have felt old since I was 25. Are you kidding me?

Tavis: (laugh) So you're used to that by now, huh?

Mellencamp: Oh, yeah.

Tavis: Yeah. And anyway, they even got you to put a, they even got a bonus DVD with this thing.

Mellencamp: Yeah. You know, when I put this thing together, I don't have a very good rear-view mirror. I don't like to look backwards very much, but I was shocked to realize that every one of these songs has a video to accompany it. So, for a guy who didn't want to make videos, I sure made a lot of 'em.

Tavis: Yeah. Why did you I remember Pink Houses. One of my favorite videos.

Mellencamp: Right.

Tavis: Which, first of all, let me ask, why did you not want to do videos?

Mellencamp: Well, I never could really figure out how to, how to make the song work with the picture. 'Cause a song is a song by itself. It's its own thing. And then you start throwing these pictures in, and it's like, "well, that's not really what I intended.' And music was, when music was really great is when the viewer, I mean the viewer, the, you know, the listener puts his own self into the song, and he becomes part of the song. That's when you know you've written a great song, when the guy listening to it, or the gal listening to it, think, "hey, man, that song's about me.'

Tavis: They create their own vision.

Mellencamp: That's right, that's right.

Tavis: As opposed to you telling them what...

Mellencamp: Yeah, so sometimes, you know, you make videos in a hurry, and you really get far away from what, you know, what you intended.

Tavis: Yeah, yeah, all right. That said, there's gotta be one video, though, that even though you didn't want to do these things, since you came of age, your hits came of age, certainly, right around the time of MTV, there's gotta be something that you enjoyed doing on the video. Which video did you like doing even though you didn't want to?

Mellencamp: Well, the actual making of 'em, I didn't like doing any of 'em, but I...

Tavis: (laugh)

Mellencamp: After seeing the things I think this Walk Tall video is a really nice video. I think that it's touching. I think that it accompanies the song very well, and I also think the ironic subject matter really worked.

Tavis: Yeah. You are much too humble when you say the ironic subject matter. This song is about how divided this country is. Talk to me about why you wrote this and how it came to be.

Mellencamp: Well, you know, race is always a problem for me. I just, I have a hard time with the way America deals with each other. I think it's wrong. Like right now, I think Black culture is doing themselves such an injustice. I mean, it makes, I don't know, it sets I think it sets the culture back years and years and years. I mean, if what White America sees is Stagger Lee and his big rings and his and his bitches and his whores, and if that's what Black America wants to represent to the rest of world "this is who we are," I think it's a sad situation. I had a, I made record with Chuck D. Chuck D. came and him and I talked about it, the word 'nigger' being used like, you know, it's just I think it's terrible.

Tavis: Let me ask you two things about that, 'cause that's a fascinating conversation. We could spend an hour just dialogue on, that's a whole seminar right there. Um, but since you went there, let me ask a couple follow-ups if I might. One, tell me how a guy , 'cause I grew up in the same place you did, in Indiana. Tell me how a guy like you, a White guy who grows up in southern Indiana, of all places, ends up getting it or even caring about the issue of race.

Mellencamp: Well, it started when I was real young. You know, I grew up in a real small town, Seymour, Indiana, and I was in a band when I was 13 years old with a...it was half Black and half White. And as a young teenager, I saw, by being in this soul band, I was, I sang and this Black kid sang, and he taught me a lot. He was 5-6 years older than me. And we would go play places, and I saw the way that I was treated and the way those guys were treated. It was like, this isn't right, man. This is, you know, so I'd have to, we would go play someplace, and I'd just go sit with Fred, you know, the kid I was singing with, 'cause he couldn't come in. This was, like, you know, 1966. So, way back then, it made a huge impression on me that this is wrong.

Tavis: Yep. Now, it's not just in your lyrics, but indeed, in your commentary. When you have something to say, people listen. When you say things, it gets people's attention. Um, how should Black folk interpret this White guy, John Mellencamp, telling them that there are certain things that they are doing that is setting back their culture?

Mellencamp: Because it's common sense. Common sense, and the idea that I have my best foot forward. Why would I say anything at all unless I had everybody's best interest at heart? You know, I can just keep my mouth shut. It's easy to keep your mouth shut. You guys can do whatever the hell you want, you know? But, you know, when the MTV awards is always blackened by a shooting, you know what I'm saying? Somebody's getting shot. You know, like the three out of, it's like, it's sending the wrong message. It's not about music. It's not about, it's not, it's not Black culture, but it is, because that's what we see.

Tavis: Now, I can hear a thousand folk in either one of these ears, or both of these ears, saying to me, "you had better, Tavis, you had better not let John Mellencamp get away with an indictment of hip-hop culture, as if rock somehow is some paragon of virtue.'

Mellencamp: Oh, no, no, no. No, I'm not saying that at all. No, rock is just as, had its crazy, silly moments, and I was part of it. You know, the way that, the way that...

Tavis: But the question, though, is why does rock, when people act the fool where rock is concerned, why does that not set back White people?

Mellencamp: It does.

Tavis: But when Black folk...

Mellencamp: Oh, no. Hold on.

Tavis: Just asking. Sure, okay.

Mellencamp: No, no, it absolutely does, and the people who act the fool and are bigots and are offensive to women, you don't see them making records now. You know, all those macho twit songs from, you know, the late '60s, early '70s about women and, you know, you don't see those guys making records anymore. So, no, no. There's a price to pay. But you know, you take a song like, that talks about Black culture. Nelly had a song about St. Louis, and what he said was right, and it was great. But the presentation of it? Women, you know, Black women with nothing on and their butts in the, what is that? I don't get that, you know? I don't understand that. I don't understand why Black women put up with it.

And I really don't understand I just don't understand when you have an opportunity, like so many of these guys do, to improve things, why don't you do it? Is money so important? Is it really just about the money? Or the fact that you have a big ring, or bling on, I don't understand.

Tavis: I only raise the rock issue because I think that people I don't speak for all Black people. It isn't like they get together for dinner at my house on Sundays after church and give me the script for the week.

Mellencamp: (laugh)

Tavis: But I know a few Black people, and I know that Black people generally have a problem and I accept the honesty and the veracity and the truth and the love in what you're saying, but I just want you to understand that a lot of Black people have issue when there are people who are of stature who happen to be White who will check hip-hop but won't use the same bully pulpit or (word?) to check rock.

Mellencamp: Oh, let me tell you, hey, listen, hold on for a second. If you look at my career, I was just as much of a silly, macho twit guy in the early, I mean, in the mid-'70s as anybody else. But I grew up, and I thought that maybe, hey, I really do have an opportunity to move music forward.

Tavis: Maybe these young kids will grow up, then, like you did. Maybe they'll grow up.

Mellencamp: I haven't seen it. The only guy that I've seen do it is Chuck.

Tavis: Yeah, yeah.

Mellencamp: Chuck is the only guy that I've seen do it.

Tavis: Speaking of Black guys, though, who have a lot of talent and many of those guys do, they need to grow up, you're right, you worked with Babyface on this greatest hits.

Mellencamp: See? Now there's a guy.

Tavis: Yeah.

Mellencamp: There's guy who is a true...

Tavis: Another Black guy from Indiana.

Mellencamp: A true R&B

Tavis: Another Hoosier.

Mellencamp: That's right. A true R&B artist, you know, who is not out, you know, making, I don't know, silly gestures in front of people. He's actually singing songs, and he's actually an R&B artist, and he's great. He's a very talented guy, and I think he does a wonderful job.

Tavis: Babyface writes and he plays instruments.

Mellencamp: Yes.

Tavis: Prince writes and plays instruments.

Mellencamp: Yes.

Tavis: Lot of guys who do that. Lot of guys these days who don't do that. You're a guy who writes and plays instruments.

Mellencamp: Yes.

Tavis: I wonder how important you think it is, that for music to be its best that it is benefited by people who can write and play what they do and not just perform?

Mellencamp: I don't really think it matters, I mean, whether you're playing a turntable or you're playing whatever. You know, we all are human beings and have a responsibility to behave accordingly. And it's not just about what I want or what you want. Hell, if that was the case, I mean, you know, I'd be a whole different guy. If I only lived for myself and accommodated no one, imagine what kind of world this would be if we only lived for ourselves and accommodated no one.

Tavis: A lot of folks do that, though, John.

Mellencamp: Well, that's what I'm talking about.

Tavis: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. 20 years, shifting gears here somewhat, 20 years since Farm Aid.

Mellencamp: Yeah.

Tavis: How did this thing get started 20 years ago? And does it seem like 20 years ago?

Mellencamp: Well, sometimes it does.

Tavis: (laugh)

Mellencamp: But I'm sad to say that, you know, I'm happy that this is the 20th anniversary, but I'm sad to say that we still have to do this. You know, when you address the farm problem, the farm crisis, I should say, in the United States, you're dealing with economics, you're dealing with politics, and you're dealing with corporate America. Three things that you and I and most normal people have little or anything to say about. And, of course, it's not like, you know, live-aid. "Hey, we have starving people. Give us money so we can feed those people.' That's a pretty simple message. But economics, politics, and big business, it's very complicated.

Like right now, the American Dairyman's Association, sounds like a friendly bunch of folks, doesn't it? You know, they're doing a big business deal that are bringing milk into this country, so that, you know, and pushing the small family farmer out, and, so in a few months, you know, our milk's gonna be a couple bucks more a gallon.

Tavis: Just like our gas.

Mellencamp: Exactly.

Tavis: Yeah.

Mellencamp: Exactly.

Tavis: Tell me how you got to be, and I was going to say political, John, but I don't want to call you political 'cause I sense, like or loathe your politics, I sense that you believe what you believe. You're a real guy, and I've always known you to be that from just being exposed to you back in my days as a student at Indiana University. But how did you, again, not get so political, but get to be so open, so engaged in these causes?

Mellencamp: I don't think that I am. I think that it's just common sense.

Tavis: Wait 'til you watch this tape. (laugh) If you don't think you're outspoken and political and unafraid to address issues, let me rewind this tape when we get done here. You are very outspoken.

Mellencamp: Well, I just think that that's I think it's my responsibility, as I think it's your responsibility. I think it's all of our responsibilities to speak our minds and if we're right, we're right. And if we're wrong, be man enough to say, "you know, I misjudged that. I misjudged that.'

Tavis: But what about your fans that say, "John, shut up. Just play the song, man. I don't want to hear all that. I didn't buy a concert ticket to hear you rant and rave. Just play the song. All I want to hear is R.O.C.K. In The U.S.A. Can you do that for me?'

Mellencamp: Well, from the stage, I very rarely say a word. As a matter of fact, I spent the last 10 years, all I said from the stage was "good evening" and "good night.' And with this tour here, I've started to talk a little bit, but not much. I understand that on a rock stage in an arena, people come to hear, and this is not the place to challenge the audience when they've paid money to hear you sing. That's not the place. But this is a TV show. This is supposed to be a show about, an idea, an exchange of ideas, and that's hey, listen, I'll say what the hell ever I want.

Tavis: (laugh) Yes, you will, and yes, you did. You feel better about that now?

Mellencamp: No, but I mean, that's just the way I am.

Tavis: (laugh) Well, I'm out of time, so if you want to say something else, come back another day.

Mellencamp: Well, I appreciate it.

Tavis: And I'll be happy to let you say whatever the heck you want to say on my TV show.

Mellencamp: I appreciate, thank you.

Tavis: All right. The new CD, "Words & Music." My man. John Mellencamp's greatest hits, "Words & Music." A special DVD that you'll love as well. John Mellencamp, nice to have you on.

Mellencamp: Thank you very much.

Tavis: That's our show for tonight. You can catch me on the weekend on PRI, Public Radio International. Check your local listings. See you back here next time on PBS. Until then, good night from L.A. Thanks for watching, and keep the faith.