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Tavis: Liz Phair is a talented singer-songwriter whose first CD 'Exile in Guyville' became a seminal album back in the early '90s, you'll recall. The Chicago native recently performed 'God Bless America' during game one of the World Series, clearly bringing good luck to the White Sox. Her latest CD is called 'Somebody's Miracle' and is largely inspired she says by Stevie Wonder's classic 'Songs in the Key of Life.' Liz Phair, nice to meet you.

Phair: Nice to meet you, too.

Tavis: Glad to have you here. It's always fascinating to sit and watch a video with the actual artist. You were telling me some funny back story about the video. So one, how fun is it to do a video in the rain?

Phair: It wasn't that funny at all, actually. I had to kind of act as like the union labor organizer for the band, because the director was like, just give them hell, and keep it coming. And I had to go and be like, okay, how long are they gonna be wet? You know, 'cause it's cold. There was like fans blowing, and I was telling you that the keyboard player actually quit because of it. I got him whiskey, which wasn't allowed, but that didn't help.

Tavis: This is not in my contract playing in this much rain. So he just walked off and quit.

Phair: He went on with Gwen Stefani and he probably will tell a different story.

Tavis: (laughs) You never know. I always love the back story. Anyway, so congratulations to you and your Chicago White Sox. How cool was that? Did you enjoy that?

Phair: That was one of the most - that would be in my top seven things I've ever done in my career. It was truly very, I'm a big patriot, and I just love to be there for Chicago actually finally winning something.

Tavis: Yeah. 88 years, they said?

Phair: We drove back to the hotel and all the buildings had "Go, Sox," written in the windows.

Tavis: I was in Chicago that weekend, absolutely, yeah.

Phair: And I was so excited 'cause we were thrilled just to think of that, and then to realize you've been part of it, you've been there, you've done something.

Tavis: You like taking on really ambitious projects. I mean, 'Exile in Guyville' huge, massive undertaking, response to the Stones. I mean, where do you come up with these ideas?

Phair: They're really natural to me, and I never got to finish my Stevie Wonder project. And really, it's kind of one of those sadnesses in my life where I would have liked to have finished that, but that was such an epic record. It was so much to undertake, and the more I got into it, the more it became this kind of, I was missing some of the really important songs like, 'Isn't She Lovely?' That was a really hard one to come up with. Something from my own life that would be sort of equivalent.

Like, I don't try to imitate anyone. But it helps me make a record. 'Cause I don't really naturally know how to make records. So I kind of, I go to school. I take on an artist who's phenomenal, and I try to go to their school. And that's the way that I look at it. Like for me on this record, I have a song about my brother's alcoholism called 'Table for One,' and that was my Village Ghetto Land, because Village Ghetto Land to me is the most devastating song on the record.

It's kind of bringing dignity to sort of the least appreciated part of life. It's like shining a spotlight on the invisible and downtrodden. And I kind of tried to look at my own life, and see what was the most devastating thing that I witnessed, or that I thought went unsung in a weird way, and it was, for me, the loneliness that my brother would have felt and like the bottom, when he bottomed out.

He's sober since then, but that's sort of how I would do it. I would look at what he wrote about, and I'd think about what in my own life, you know, mirrors this sentiment.

Tavis: I'm fascinated by this conversation, because of all the conversations I've been blessed to have with artists and performers, I have never had somebody sit here and tell me that this is their methodology for how they come up with the idea to do a CD.

Which is to sit, basically, in somebody's classroom and to respond to what they have done and learn in that way. Now, what fascinates me further about that style, is that you're not starting out learning from somebody who's like down here. I mean, 'Songs in the Key of Life.' (laughs)

Phair: What are you trying to say, Tavis?

Tavis: No, I'm just saying that 'Songs in the Key of Life'...

Phair: Bit off more then I could chew? Yeah. I figured that out about, like, you know, I can do about eight songs out of 21 and I realize, okay, I bit off more than I can chew. But nonetheless, why wouldn't you go - I think I don't have the impulse to learn from anything but real great, powerful music, or something that's really powerful. Because it really is something that awes you that you wanna move toward. And it doesn't matter if you only make it three feet. You're three feet closer to something that you think is really special.

Tavis: So in the process, you're never daunted by it. You're never intimidated by it.

Phair: No, I was. I was really intimidated by it. It was really, I would have needed another year to really do it right. It was incredibly intimidating, and yet I find, I guess I am sort of - I'm an Aries. I'm like, the challenge is so exciting to me. I like to try to do things that people say 'No, no, you can't,' not because I'm just being rebellious, but because it's seeking that something that's magical.

It's beyond your reach; it's something, the pot at the end of the rainbow. For me, that record, I didn't even really - I didn't know that record very well. I knew a lot of the songs off it. But I never spent...

Tavis: Certainly 21 songs strong.

Phair: 21 songs, yeah. But I never spent as much time with it. And it was like all of life. I mean, I know it has a lot of political ramifications, too. But just as a musical piece, I could step out of that and just look at someone telling me these wonderful stories, and this incredible soul speaking to me.

Tavis: The one thing that Stevie did on that project that you've done remarkably well on this project, and you've done on previous projects, is to not run away from being very personal, from sharing, from being very expressive. You talked earlier about track number 10 on the CD, 'Table for One,' about your brother's alcoholism.

But it really is your own life in addition to your brother that you were very open and very expressive about. That never scares you either, being so expressive, so open?

Phair: There's always a point at which I've reached my limit, and I feel very uncomfortable. Like on my last disc, there was a song about my son's perspective looking at my divorce and my actions. He sees me with another man, and it's based on, you know, all my songs are based on true events. So, it can get really scary, but that's what's passionate for me about art.

That's what's so exciting about it, is that I think if you don't give of yourself, how can you ask anything more back? How can you, if you're not willing to open up, no one's gonna open up to you. And I think making art or making music is about communication. Ideally, you want someone to hear you and say, "Yeah, I know what you mean," or "I feel that.'

Or even if it's just music, to feel that connection with people is so much - that's what music is to me, making a connection between a few people, or a lot of people. And I think Stevie reminded me, when I went to Stevie school that...

Tavis: I like that. Stevie school.

Phair: Stevie school. Instead of speaking broadly like, hey, we all have bad days, really describe the specifics of your bad day, and it will resonate more fully with more people, than if you're just vague about it. I really believe that.

Tavis: So at Indiana University, I knew when I had succeeded at what they were trying to teach me in school, or in my case, I knew when I hadn't learned what they were trying to teach me, 'cause I was not a great student. So how do you know after going to Stevie school that you have graduated, or whether you've graduated with honors or just barely gotten out?

Phair: I didn't graduate yet. I'm still playing with that project. I'm still kind of stuck wanting to finish the songs that I never got to, you know, make the - I didn't graduate. But I definitely went to that university unprepared. But I got a lot out of it anyway. And I don't feel like my life's less rich for not having finished.

I think it's more rich for having tried. But, it's that thing like maybe you didn't get out of your classes what you expected to, but I'm sure you came away with a lot just for having been there.

Tavis: 'Somebody's Miracle.' Why did you, I can venture a guess, but I won't. Why 'Somebody's Miracle' as the title for this new CD?

Phair: 'Somebody's Miracle,' it's the name of a song that was important to me. I think this record has a lot of regret. I'm going through a period in my life now where I'm old enough to understand what it is to look back on your life and see the mistakes you've made and own them. And that's a funny period in your life, you know. Because when you're young, you're kind of like, it's your fault, it's your fault, it's your fault. And you don't take it upon yourself to look at the way your life has gone and like whether you had something to do with that.

And I kind of looked - the song 'Somebody's Miracle' is about looking at a couple, just a simple couple on the street, and standing in awe of that kind of relationship, someone that could keep a relationship together for a long time and hold hands and still love each other. The small things in life kind of get to me these days.

Sure, you can go out with a blast or do something really "wow" and people are like, "Wow, you're so great.' But can you make the daily choices that lead to a full and rich life? And I find that that's, you know, that's what impresses me now.

Tavis: See, now I'm turned on by going to Liz school.

Phair: (laughs) Liz school.

Tavis: Let's find a better alliteration...

Phair: You can audit.

Tavis: (laughs) That's what I'm doing now. Let's find a better alliteration, like maybe a 'Liz lecture.' So, speaking of 'Liz lecture,' give me a 'Liz lecture.' On this tour that you're on now, you're doing like a lot of podcasting, and I've been kind of scared of this.

But I'm starting to experiment in my own operation with radio and television with doing some podcasting stuff. A lot of people are pushing me in that direction. I'm a little on the late freight. I haven't done it yet. But you're having great success with podcasting while you're on this tour. So tell me why I should not be afraid of this and how you're enjoying it.

Phair: The way I look at it, it's a new medium, so what I like about it is, I won't let anyone tell me how to do it. And I just take off my self-consciousness and I just, I put out whatever I think is funny or cool, and I piece together a show.

Tavis: Like once a week you do this.

Phair: I try. Like this week we missed it because I came home and spent time with my son. We just put a thing up there that says "Next week.' You know, I don't freak out the way I do with the other parts of my career. Podcasting for you right now would be fabulous, because I don't know if you miss, you know, having more control, creative control. But - there's not enough podcast to compare you to.

You can pretty much have an outlet, at least I feel that I can have an outlet to do whatever I want and it doesn't matter. There's no format yet. There's no structure yet. It's completely open-ended. It's like when the web page first came onto the picture. Anyone who had a web page, God knows what they put up there, you know?

Now if you have a web page, it has to look good, it has to have all these things, it has to have great links. Podcasting could be you brushing your teeth in the morning, you know, seriously, and people will listen. They love it. It's a window into intimacy.

Tavis: This is the sound of Tavis brushing his teeth in the morning.

Phair: (laughs) I would listen to that, frankly. I know a lot of people on my bus that would get behind just checking out what Tavis is doing when he's reading the paper. You make a funny, you're like, 'Uhh.'

Tavis: Yeah. (laughs) That concludes our 'Liz lecture' for the day. The new CD from Liz Phair is 'Somebody's Miracle.' I could have done this for an hour. I'm so delighted to talk to you.

Phair: Thank you very much. It's such an honor to be on your show.

Tavis: And can I be on your podcast?

Phair: I would love it. I would absolutely love it.

Tavis: So let's tape something as soon as we get done here.

Phair: Okay, thank you very much.

Tavis: Let me announce right now, I will be on Liz Phair's podcast either like this week or next week, but we're gonna record something right now for the podcast for Liz Phair. So, enjoy the tour. Check her out. She's coming somewhere near you sometime soon. Liz, nice to meet you.

Phair: So nice to meet you.

Tavis: That's our show for tonight. Catch me on the weekends on PRI, Public Radio International. Check your local listings. See you back here next time on PBS. Until then, good night from L.A. Thanks for watching. And as always, keep the faith.