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• Sen. Kerry's online office
• Keeping America's Promise
• Boston Globe series "John Kerry: Candidate in the Making"

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Tavis: I am pleased to welcome back to this program Senator John Kerry. The long serving US Senator from Massachusetts, of course, was the Democratic Presidential nominee in 2004. Among his influential committee assignments in the Senate, is a seat on the powerful Foreign Relations Committee. And if I can't make room for John Kerry, I can't make room for anybody. Senator, nice to have you back on the program.

Senator John Kerry: It's wonderful to be here. Thanks for having me.

Tavis: Glad to have you. Let me start, before I get to Iraq and other matters, let me with a piece of historic legislation that you were behind that passed the Senate today to honor, I believe, an authentic American hero, make that 'shero.' I'll let you take it from there.

Kerry: Well, today we made a first step towards getting a statue in Statuary Hall, hopefully, and that is yet to be made permanent, for Rosa Parks. And I don't think anybody can argue that she is really one of the great figures of the last century. Her courage 50 years ago, December 1st, just a few days away, just set off, it sparked such a transformation in America. And her whole demeanor, her whole bearing, everything about her was so powerful.

And I think all of us were impressed back then, and we've been impressed ever since. And the difference that it's made to America and to the lives of so many people, deserves to be memorialized in a statue in Statuary Hall. What's important is every state technically only gets two statues in the hall. So we need to break new ground here and make it clear that her place and what she did really deserves, because she refused to go to the back of the bus, she really ought to be in the front of the Capitol. And it's that simple.

Tavis: What happens with the legislation now? I know there's a Senate version that passed, I know Congressman Jesse Jackson introduced a similar legislation in the House. What happens now?

Kerry: Well, Congressman Jackson and I are working hand in hand. He has about 180 supporters in the House so far for his bill. I believe it will pass in the House. And then the minute his bill passes in the House, we're going to try to come back in the Senate and get that exact same bill passed, since it's already passed in the House. Hopefully we'll be able to do that. And then it's just a question of the President signing it into law.

Tavis: And do you expect that the President would in fact sign that legislation?

Kerry: I think the President will sign whatever the Congress gives him. I'm confident of that.

Tavis: Fair enough. Let's talk about the President. I was trying to figure out how I was going to segue from Rosa Parks.

Kerry: You just mention the President and you've got a segue, right? That wasn't hard. (laughs)

Tavis: Thank you for the setup. I appreciate it. Let me set aside all the jokes, though. Because this is serious stuff. I want to start, Senator Kerry, with a quote from President Bush's speech on Veterans Day, where he references you, although not by name. Let me put the quote on the screen and read it with our audience, and we'll get your thoughts about it.

'Some Democrats and anti-war critics are now claiming we manipulated the intelligence, and misled the American people about why we went to war. Many of these critics supported my opponent during the last election, who explained his position to support the resolution in Congress this way. When I vote to give the President of the United States the authority to use force, if necessary, to disarm Saddam Hussein, it is because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a threat, and a grave threat, to our security.'

Close quote. I can only assume President Bush was speaking of one John Kerry.

Kerry: He was speaking of me. But as usual, he took it out of context. And not only did he take it out of context, but the President, in effect, on Veterans Day, which is a sacred day for veterans, and a day to not have attack politics. The President broke that, did attack politics, and actually distorted the position. The fact is that what I said in that same speech that he didn't quote, was that the President really ought to take the time to build an international coalition, that he shouldn't go unilaterally.

That if he rushed without the proper planning, Iraq would become a haven for terrorists. The region would in fact become more volatile and we would be less secure. The President didn't quote that. The President also didn't quote that I said very clearly that I was not voting to give the President an unlimited license, that he was to adhere to what he promised to do, which was to exhaust the remedies of the inspections, build a legitimate coalition, build a true multilateral effort. And the President in the end pushed away our allies, rushed to war, did not have a plan, and today we're paying the price for it.

Tavis: I want to talk in a moment about what you think ought to be done in Iraq. Before I do that, I've been itching to ask you this question. I ask it with respect. It is in politics, but I warn you in advance. But I wonder whether or not on any given day, or every day, for that matter, you wake up, do you ever think when you look at the trouble, the drama, the mess the President has us in. You look at his numbers being in the toilet. Do you ever think the American people got what they deserve by not voting for John Kerry?

Kerry: No, I never think about it that way. That would be a very negative way to think about it. What I do think about, and just an honest admission, is obviously, I think about what it could have been and what we could have done and how different it would have been. How different I think our approach to Iraq, as I laid out. I've laid out four or five times now the different steps we should have taken with respect to Iraq.

I think of what would be different with respect to the budget, the budget deficit, the choices for health care for children, health care for Americans. The energy independence that we need to America. We can do better in this country. All of us together understand that. That if we get together and work together, we can do better in America than we're doing today. And that's what I think about.

But the fact is that, you know, if you look at Iraq, for instance, on its face the President misled America. He misled the Congress. Because they gave us intelligence that was wrong. The words in the President's State of the Union message about weapons of nuclear capacity, and the effort of Saddam Hussein to get nuclear materials from Niger, that was just wrong. It was misleading. And the President knew it was misleading, because three times the CIA wrote to the White House and verbally told the White House, don't use that.

In addition, on the manned and unmanned vehicles for the delivery the biological and chemical weapons. The Air Force specifically said that was not reliable intelligence. Nevertheless, they never told us the Air Force said that. And they never shared that doubt. In fact, they shouldn't have said what they said about the manned and unmanned vehicles. So whenever they had a chance to take intelligence and push it beyond what people were willing or comfortable in the intelligence community to say was certainty, they did it.

And ultimately they really, I think, had made up their minds they wanted to take out Saddam Hussein. Weapons of mass destruction were the best way to get legitimacy to do it. So they went down that road. Dick Cheney even opposed going to the United Nations in order to have inspections, because they thought that might take away the rationale for them being able to go in. So all in all, I think it's very, very clear. And I think as time goes on, it will become more clear the degree to which they misled us into war.

Tavis: Speaking of time and timing, as you well know in politics, as is the case I suspect in life, timing is everything. So what do you make of the fact that the American people now at this particular point in time, think the President in fact did mislead them? The numbers in every poll, survey, and study seem to indicate that the American people are at their wits end with regard to the policy or lack thereof in Iraq. What do you make of the fact that the American people now feel, as you felt a year or two ago, on Iraq?

Kerry: Well, it's very damaging for our country. I don't take pleasure in it. I don't think anybody here does, because this is about our country. We want our country to do well. We want to succeed. We want those troops to be as supported as possible by the right choices and the right policies. I want success. I'm not advocating that we just get up and go. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is there are ways to be successful that this administration has not implemented, that they have not pursued.

We could do a much better job of bringing other allies to the table. We should be having a major conference in the region to leverage the Sunni-Shiah political reconciliation that is the critical element of defusing the insurgency. There is no military solution. There is a political solution. And the administration has never sufficiently acknowledged that. Our generals are now telling us that the large presence of American forces, the presence of this great military - presence is in fact part of the magnet, part of the problem in attracting the insurgency.

And they believe they could reduce those numbers. What I've said is we put extra troops in for the purpose of the referendum and the election. We should make those a benchmark. And when they are both successful, and I believe the election will be successful, we can then draw down that level of troops as the first benchmark of success, and as a way of saying to the Iraqis, it's time for you to assume greater responsibility. And I believe we could re-deploy our troops over the course of the next year with a series of benchmarks for success. Not for just withdrawal and not for failure, certainly.

Tavis: I've got two minutes left, two questions. First question, simply this, what do you make of the fact, more importantly, what should the American people make of the fact that maybe the tide in Iraq is turning, when I see Republicans passing legislation early this week? Clearly it wasn't a Democratic proposal, but Republicans now in the Senate are pushing the President toward a timetable. Are we turning the corner in Iraq politically in the US Senate?

Kerry: The real determination of that will not be the resolution that we just passed. It will be what the administration does over the course of the next days. If the administration doesn't take these steps, and I think they probably will, to effect this political reconciliation and begin to get troops home, we're going to have a very serious confrontation up here four or five or six months from now.

This is the critical six-month window. We want to be successful. We can be. It's up to the administration to get the job done, and we're trying to show them how they can do that.

Tavis: Finally, I hate to ask you this question, but I wouldn't be doing my job, Senator Kerry, if I didn't.

Kerry: I know what's coming.

Tavis: Yeah, you know what's coming. Do you want to answer without me asking it?

Kerry: Absolutely.

Tavis: Go ahead.

Kerry: It's too early for me to tell. I really don't know yet.

Tavis: But you are in a bit of a quagmire this time, though, because in '08, you are up for re-election to the Senate for Massachusetts. The Massachusetts law, as I understand it, says you can't run for the Senate and the White House. So how do you even make that determination, even though it's too early to make?

Kerry: You just make it when the time comes. I have no problem making a choice when the time comes. That's my job to make that decision, and I will.

Tavis: All right, well, you'll come back on I'm sure and tell us about it when you make that decision.

Kerry: You'll be the first, right?

Tavis: Yeah. (laughs) I heard you tell Larry King that the other day. But that's okay. I love you anyway.

Kerry: Thank you. Take care.

Tavis: Senator Kerry, nice to have you on the program, sir.

Kerry: Great to be with you. Thanks, Tavis.

Tavis: My pleasure. Up next on this program, R&B superstar Mary J. Blige. Stay with us.