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Tavis: It is a great pleasure indeed to welcome Ron Howard to this program. The venerable Hollywood star turned entertainment mogul remains one of the most popular directors and producers in show business. His stellar directorial resume includes films like 'A Beautiful Mind,' one of my favorites, 'Apollo 13,' and 'Cocoon.' Next week, his most recent movie, 'Cinderella Man' comes out on DVD. The film will certainly be part of the Oscar conversation, come early next year. Starring Russell Crowe, of course. Ron Howard, what an honor to meet you.

Ron Howard: Pleasure, yeah. Nice for me to.

Tavis: Glad to have you on the program.

Howard: Thank you.

Tavis: I don't know why I should ever feel sorry for Ron Howard, but I must tell you that I actually felt sorry for you when I actually saw 'Cinderella Man.' And I say I felt sorry because I thought it was an absolutely wonderful film. It did not rate, did not bring in the kind of box office cash that you all I'm sure expected it to.

Penny Marshall, one of the producers on this project with you, was on this program, and her assessment was that it did not do well because the studio put it out at the wrong time of year. But if I'm disappointed as a viewer after all the effort you put in this, it had to be somewhat disappointing for you.

Howard: You know, look, thank you. Appreciate that, and glad you liked the movie. It's, you know, as a storyteller, as a filmmaker, you know, you give it everything you've got and, certainly, you want everybody in the world to see the film. But I've made enough movies to know that things don't always roll out quite the way you hope they will, and you don't have any control of anything beyond the film you've made, and the kind of reaction that you get from the audience.

And the reaction to this film, and also from critics, frankly, who are not always, not always been with me, has been fantastic. And so of that I'm incredibly gratified, and I'm so proud of the movie, and proud of the performances that the actors give in the film, which means a lot to me because, as a director, I love working with great actors, with good characters.

So - I'm proud of the movie, I'm happy about it, and, you know, yeah, sure, it would've been nice if it would've made a few more dollars, I suppose.

Tavis: You're such a trooper, 'cause I would like be, pulling my hair out and screaming and jumping up and down. I mean, I know from just having friends who are in this business and having, you know, appeared on a couple sets here and there to visit friends and check out projects, there's a lot of work that goes into this. This stuff is a lot of work.

And when you put your blood, sweat, and tears into this, you're telling me that you don't ever, like, just really get bummed at something that you put that much effort into didn't do better?

Howard: Well, the fact is that - no, sure. I mean, you know, you get your hopes up. But - and part of it is, you know, that you'd like to make that money. But honestly, a bigger part is, you just want a lot of people to see it, and it's one of the reasons I'm willing to come out here and talk about the DVD. Because I love this movie, and I know people love it when they see it. And, you know, it wasn't like no one went. We just did about, I'd say, probably about half the business that we thought we were gonna do at the theaters.

Tavis: Here's a dumb question because I mean, dumb because I think I understand the answer already, but I want to hear it from you. What so attracted you to this story? I mean, the story is such a great story. But what made you, as a director, want to do this project?

Howard: There was a balance of ideas that the story offered, you know? And I thought they offered them in a really entertaining and compelling way. One was this very uplifting story of this family led by this man, Jim Braddock, who survived a really crippling time in the nation's history, which was The Great Depression.

Tavis: Based on a true story, we should add.

Howard: Based on a true story, yeah. In a - really virtuous yet unsentimental way, he did it. He did what he was supposed to do as a man. His wife Mae, played by Renee Zellweger, she did what she was supposed to do as a mother, and they made it through. And I thought that was worth celebrating. But there's also an element of it, which was to remind modern audiences just what this country went through 70 years ago on a huge scale.

And also, I hope, to remind people that that issue of working families who are doing everything they can and still can't make ends meet, that hasn't gone away. It's not as crippling and widespread as it was, of course, during The Great Depression, but it has not gone away. And I sort of wanted to put a face on that problem in a way that I thought was compelling.

Tavis: You think there are lessons then - what I'm hearing you suggest, then, is that with a project like this, although this may not have been your intent, this is a project, 'Cinderella Man,' that is not just entertaining, but can, in fact, be empowering and enlightening, if what you're suggesting is true, and I think it is. That there are lessons to be learned from The Depression.

Howard: Thank you. I feel like that there are lessons in this story and I think there, you know, I hope we've presented them in a way that's very entertaining. And, of course, you've got an actor like Russell Crowe creating a character like that, going into the boxing ring. All that action, you know, all based on the real fights, round by round, punch by punch. And, you know, I think the film works on a lot of different levels.

Tavis: This is not to cast dispersion on Russell Crowe, but when you're working on a project, do you keep your fingers crossed that the stars in the project don't get caught in trouble around the time the movie's coming out?

Howard: (laughs) Well, you're always - look, as you get started down the road making a film, particularly a film that you're loving and that you really believe in, you realize it's a very fragile thing, and any number of things could occur. But, look, Russell's had a very, very long, very productive career. He's a great artist and he always gets the job done, you know? And he and I are very different guys. We've become friends from working together, and I have a lot of respect for him.

We're not the same kind of people with the same kind of sensibilities, but, you know, my relationship with him is based on this deep respect I have for his work, and he would never let a movie down. Man, he did everything that he could do to get himself ready to create Jim Braddock, because that's what he thought he owed the character, and that's what he thought he owed the audience.

And, you know, there's always a little fear that when somebody is playing somebody who's, a virtuous man, that people are gonna take a character like that for granted, and, as opposed to somebody who's dysfunctional and troubled and tormented and some of the other kind of characters that Russell's played, and that others have played to great effect.

But I can say, as a director, that many of the scenes that he had to play in this movie were just absolutely gut-wrenching, and for him to go to that place and create that character with that kind of authenticity, is another great feat. I'm proud of him.

Tavis: Let me borrow one of your phrases, "virtuous man.' I, when I get a chance to have these conversations on television, I like to ask around about people, and I find myself in conversation saying, "Ron Howard's gonna be on the show next week" or whatever. And you are one of those few people whose name I've passed around town who, as I mentioned in my introduction, everybody seems to like you.

You are, if there is a virtuous man in this town, like, there's a short list of you and Tom Hanks and a few other people in this business that everybody seems to like. Where does that come from? I mean, this character that you played on 'The Andy Griffith Show' years ago, Opie, is like, this has never left you in terms of being this really likeable, nice person. Do you work at that, or is this the kind of person you are?

Howard: Well, you know, I want to do what I think is right. I want to deal with people in ways that I think are, you know, is fair.

Tavis: That's rare in this business, though.

Howard: Well, I don't know. But look, I think it's the way I was raised. I think my father, Rance Howard, did a fantastic job. And in fact, the Andy-Opie relationship was defined a lot by what Andy observed between my dad and I, when he would bring me to the set and supervise me when we were on the show.

And so, you know, there is something of me and my relationship with my father in 'The Andy Griffith Show,' but it's from my real father, Rance, and not so much a reflection of Andy. Although Andy was like a, kind of like an uncle to me.

Tavis: When you were, you know, knee-high, did, is this what you wanted to do? Did you expect that you would have a life this long in the business and that it would transform and metamorphosize the way that it has?

Howard: Well, you know - my earliest memories of it were actually of my dad directing plays, and then he used to run an improv workshop out of our house. And then I got started acting. And so I always realized that there was something going on behind the scenes.

Then I began to witness it, and when I was about eight or nine years old, people would say, "What do you want to do when you grow up?' I was playing a lot of sports then. I would say, "I want to be an actor, writer, producer, director, cameraman, and baseball player.' 'Cause I thought it could be kind of a seasonal thing. But - when I got to about 15 or so, they started throwing that hard-breaking stuff, and I decided to go full-time into show business.

Tavis: How fortunate then are you, and I don't want to color that too much because you're fortunate to have been in this business for all these years, fortunate to have worked consistently, fortunate to have gone from being an actor to being a director, not just a director, but an Oscar-winning director. I mean, how blessed, how fortunate, how lucky are you? And do you ever think about this?

Howard: I do. Look, all the time.

Tavis: It's a tough business.

Howard: It's very tough and, I'm always talking to people about how to break in, how do you build your career, and so forth. And, you know, there is always an element of luck. I think the one advantage that I've had is, from really early on, there's been no confusion. I've known I loved it. I've known when I was in a show that I thought was really good, as an actor, or when I was in something that was compromised, and I didn't want to, as a director, ever feel that.

I wanted to take responsibility for the stories that I was telling. People might like them or dislike them, but at least they were gonna be reflections of, you know, what I thought the story offered. And at a certain point, you realize that like anything you do, anything you do, it's got to be a service. If you're not providing a service, you know, there's a lot of yourself in it and that's fine.

But you've got to be thinking about, you know, what the work you're doing is offering to other people, and that's in any business in the world. That's how a society works. But to have succeeded at the level that I've succeeded, you know, I feel - I don't want to be corny, just going on and getting kind of maudlin. I feel unbelievably blessed.

Tavis: I assume at some point you figured out that you had this acting thing down. At some point, you figured out, "Hey, I can do this and I'm pretty good at this.' When did you figure out that you could do the directing thing and do it relatively well, also?

Howard: You know, part of why I wanted to become a director was because I didn't want to be in the awkward position that actors find themselves in a lot, which is kind of questioning why certain things were done the way they were done. "Why'd they cut out that scene? How come they shot it this way?' And I was a very easy-going actor, very dutiful. Did my job, you know. But I really did want to take on the responsibility.

But I also, something in me knew that I had kind of a limitation as an actor. It wasn't even just the type and how I'd be cast or any of that; it's really what I had to offer. And I could never give the kind of performance that Tom Hanks could give or that Russell Crowe could give, and I realized that early on. And something told me that I could do better behind the camera.

And I really felt that from an early age and went to, you know, studied film and just continued to. And look, I'm continuing to learn from it. It's the medium that cannot be mastered, and I suppose that can be frustrating on a lot of days, but in the end, I think it's probably the good news.

Tavis: You said something to me just fascinating that I want to go back and get right quick. I think that part of being successful in whatever field you're in, is knowing your strengths and your weaknesses, your abilities and your limitations. I knew at a certain point, as much as I wanted to be a first baseman for the Cincinnati Reds, that was not gonna happen.

I grew up in Indiana right around the time of the 'Big Red Machine,' Bench and Rose and the whole crew and Sparky Anderson. I knew at a certain point, I am not gonna make it in the major leagues as a first baseman. I gave that dream up and went on to learning how to use this instrument of running my mouth. So it's worked out okay. Here I am.

Howard: It sure has.

Tavis: To your point, though, you knew at some point, to your earlier admission, that you could not give a Tom Hanks, a Russell Crowe-like performance. What kind of performance are you speaking of? And what made you know that, as good an actor as you were, that wasn't your destiny on that level?

Howard: It's that person, that body being a kind of, an instrument or a conduit for, you know, real art. The difference between being able to understand a character, present it in, you know, in an honest way. If it's funny, know where the joke is, and if it's serious, to be able to be truthful. It's taking it to that next level which real artists can do, and exploring the human experience and offering it back to audiences in ways that are really compelling and exceptional.

And I don't think I was ever gonna do that. But as a filmmaker, I feel like I can be an artist. I think that I can apply my creativity. I think I can also lead other artists and create an environment where they can really excel, and this is what excites me, and it's one of the reasons I'd like to do a wide variety of stories. Because they're all challenging, they're all great life experiences. I learn a great deal, and I continue to grow.

Tavis: See, that's the fascinating part for me, so I'm glad you went there. So you knew at a certain point that you were not the person to deliver that performance. But no great movie gets made - I always laugh at Oscar time when a picture gets nominated for best picture, but the director is nowhere on the list of best directors. That always cracks me up. But that's not my...

Howard: That really cracked me up when it happened on 'Apollo 13.' That was really, I was laughing my head off. (laughs)

Tavis: (laughs) 'Apollo 13' is one of those examples. One of my favorite films. I want to come back to that in just a second. But a great picture does not direct itself, as you certainly know. So how is that you felt you couldn't deliver that performance, but, as a director, you know how to pull that out of someone, you know when you see it, you know how to make it work? So you can't deliver it, but you know how to get it out of somebody else?

Howard: I think I just had an intuitive sense that I'd be a good leader, you know? That I could - understand what the possibilities were, and frankly, I'm not sure I definitely knew that particular thing. I just knew I wanted to tell stories. And as I delved into it, I began to see what great actors could do, and how they could create. And one of the fascinating things for me is to see the way different artists develop their characters, some with a lot of conversation, some without hardly - with barely a word spoken.

Some very improvisational, some very thoughtful with the script ahead of time. It's an endlessly fascinating and often inspiring job to work with great actors. Sometimes it can be a little frustrating, too, but, you know, you gotta take the bad with the good.

Tavis: How do you decide those persons you want to work with? And I ask that against the backdrop of this list of great actors that you have worked with, some repeatedly. But you, like, really have worked with some of the best in the business. How do you know who you want to work with?

Howard: You know, sometimes it's a really controversial thing, and you'll have a list of four or five people that you're interested in, and that's where, you know, like my long association with Brian Grazer, my partner at Imagine Films. He and I will spend hours, literally, going over tapes, looking at other films, having conversations with actors. And I definitely include him in the process a good deal, because he's got great instincts as well. Sometimes it's instantaneous.

You think about Jim Carrey playing 'The Grinch,' and who else would you ever want to do the film with? You know, that was a joy for me to work with Jim on that. You know, Russell Crowe, in both 'Beautiful Mind' and 'Cinderella Man,' well, these were easy choices. In fact, Russell brought 'Cinderella Man' to me, and I instantly knew that here was a guy who was going to be able to create in a very truthful, really compelling, and yes, emotional way, what it was like to be this kind of man, this kind of father trying to keep his family fed during The Depression.

Yeah, he's a boxer, but it's not really a story of a great athlete, I think it's a story of a great man. And he was never a superstar, but at a time when his family needed him most, at a time when he was broken down, you know, he found this within himself to be able to compete at a higher level than he'd ever competed before, and succeed.

And it's a really inspiring story and I knew Russell could bring to that character a kind of dimension and an honesty without sentimentality that would be, you know, really exciting to watch.

Tavis: So let's get back to 'Apollo 13,' that happy moment in your life.

Howard: It was a great film to work on. There was that little wrinkle right at the end, but I remember that film so fondly.

Tavis: I must tell you that, I mentioned earlier that I felt badly for you when 'Cinderella Man' didn't do better 'cause I thought it was a great film. But of all the things that have ever been done about outer space, I, forgive me for this. I've never, like, been a Trekkie. I'm not a sci-fi guy.

I'm not an - this stuff has never turned me on. The first film that I ever saw that really got me interested in NASA and the work of beyond was 'Apollo 13.'

Howard: Oh, thank you.

Tavis: That was an absolutely great film. Tell me how you did feel, though, when that movie got nominated and your directing was not recognized?

Howard: Well, you know, it was really tough. I was actually directing Mel Gibson on that day in a movie called 'Ransom' and he and I were very good friends, but he was, he got nominated for directing 'Braveheart' and I didn't get nominated for 'Apollo 13.' And Gary Sinise was in 'Ransom' and he had also played one of the leading roles in 'Apollo 13,' and he was there.

And of course, I took it, it hurt. It really hurt. I was disappointed, and it had been, by all the pundits and everything, kind of a foregone conclusion that I'd be nominated. That's what they were saying in all the newspapers. And then it just didn't happen. And it was disappointing. But two things happened. One was, the press started to come around to interview. And I remember thinking about a friend of mine, Pat Riley. Great basketball coach; now GM at Miami.

Tavis: Miami Heat, yeah.

Howard: And I remember him telling me one time that win or lose, a professional coach had to go out and talk to the press. And, you know, that just went with the territory. I remember having that conversation. So I kind of put myself in Pat Riley's shoes, and went out there and did all the interviews. But another great thing happened. There was a lot of tension on the set, because a lot of people felt, you know, my disappointment.

Mel didn't really know what to say other than just kind of patting me on the back and say, "Hey, I loved 'Apollo 13' and I can't believe you didn't get in there," you know, and he was great. But it was all kind of quiet and sullen, and we were doing a very important scene between Gary Sinise and Mel Gibson, this kind of stand-off between the two characters.

And at a certain point, Gary came up and Mel was right there, and we were talking about the scene. He was asking me a question and I was talking to him, giving him some direction. He said, "Wait a minute, wait a minute" loud enough for the whole crew to hear. He says, "What the hell am I asking you for? Mel, what do you think I ought to do in this scene?' And it completely broke the ice, and it was, and from then on, it was much easier to deal with.

Tavis: So fast forward a few years and you actually win one of these statues.

Howard: Yeah, and Mel gave me the best director award.

Tavis: Absolutely. So how did that feel?

Howard: That was an amazing experience, and then Tom Hanks was there to give Brian Grazer and I our best picture Oscar. So it was, it was fantastic.

Tavis: Is that like the epitome? I'm trying to juxtapose these two things. On the one hand, you said earlier, that this is an industry, a process, a profession that you never truly master. You said you're learning every day, and yet you're on this stage a couple of times receiving what is the perception of the highest honor in this industry.

Howard: It's a huge thrill because of the tradition of The Academy. And, you know, and I love movies and The Academy Awards have always been a big part of celebrating movies. Now can you really decide what's the best movie or what's the best directed movie or the best performance? You know, that's pretty arguable. Maybe in some year, it might be an absolute landslide, but it's usually pretty controversial, as it should be.

So, you know, kind of intellectually, academically, I could pick at the idea of having awards for artistic undertakings, the validity of that. But as a film fan and a filmmaker, I have to say that's one of the proudest moments of my life to, and - when I'm not involved, I'm there watching it every single year. I love the show, the Oscar show.

Tavis: See how much I like you? The clock says I have a minute and 20 seconds left and I've let you slide on all the controversy surrounding 'The Da Vinci Code.'

Howard: Oh, good.

Tavis: (laughs) So, I'm gonna ask you about it with a minute to go. How is this coming along?

Howard: Well, I'm just in the editorial process. I had a great experience filming it. It was fantastic. A tremendous cast of actors.

Tavis: Tom Hanks again.

Howard: Tom Hanks, again, Audrey Tautou, Jean Reno, Sir Ian McKellen. You know, just fantastic. Paul Bettany, who I got to work with again, who I worked with on 'A Beautiful Mind.'

Tavis: So is the controversy gonna help the project? Hurt the project? Challenge the project?

Howard: The novel was very controversial. We're making the movie because, we, you know, we loved the story presented in the novel. Our film's gonna be controversial, too, I have to assume, based on the way people have responded to the novel. But it's also, it stimulates conversation in ways that I think are also, are not only entertaining and engrossing, but I think a positive thing.

Tavis: Well, your work always does that. It's an honor to meet you, Ron Howard.

Howard: Likewise. I enjoyed our talk.

Tavis: Glad to have you on the program. I enjoyed it as well. 'Cinderella Man' now out on DVD, in limited release, I guess, in the holiday season in LA and New York. So check it out if you haven't seen it. That's our show for tonight. You can catch me on the weekends on PRI, Public Radio International. Check your local listings. See you back here next time on PBS. Until then, good night from L.A. Thanks for watching, and as always, keep the faith.