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Tavis: I'm pleased, honored in fact, to welcome Tommy Lee Jones to this program. The Oscar-winning actor has enjoyed a long and obviously successful career in film, including classics like "Coal Miner's Daughter," "JFK," and "The Fugitive,' which I saw for the 212th time the other night. This year, though, marks his debut as a feature film director. "The Three Burials of 'Melquiades Estrada' opened to rave reviews this year at the Cannes Film Festival, followed by four Independent Spirit nominations. A lot of buzz on this thing already. The film opens this week in New York and here in LA, and nationwide in February. I'm not a film critic, but you've never been better.

Tommy Lee Jones: Well, thanks.

Tavis: You have never been better.

Jones: I like that. I'm glad to hear that.

Tavis: It's nice to have you on the program. Nice to meet you, too.

Jones: Thank you.

Tavis: I want to start with this quote. I was just trying to figure out where I wanted to go first, and I wrote this down so I would get this right, because it was so fascinating for me to see the formulation that you put on this movie. You said, and I quote, "The movie is a study of the emotional, psychological, spiritual and social implications of having an international border running through the middle of a culture.' Talk to me about that.

Jones: Well, in a way, yeah. The study in social contrast, so we pay a lot of attention, so far as we can, to how things might be different on one side of the river from the other, and how they are the same. And you find that there are probably, things are the same in a lot of very significant ways. And so it's an interesting source of dramatic tension, let's say.

It's something to watch. A good milieu for a story. If you - when you have this phenomena of an international border running through the middle of a culture and enforcing that border by threat of force of arms.

Tavis: The timing of this couldn't be more propitious. I was just thinking, watching this, that with President Bush giving these speeches recently in Arizona and Texas about immigration, and all of the issues surrounding immigration, the timing of this is fascinating when you know the story. So let's talk about the story for those who don't know what the movie's about, because it is based on a true story.

Jones: It was inspired by a true story, it's not really based on a true story. There was - Arriaga and I, when we figured out we were going to make a movie, because we were good friends, and he's certainly interested in making films about his country and its history. I'm interested in making films about my country and its history. And - you don't spend much time there until you figure out those two countries are essentially the same.

Tavis: You guys were hunting one day, as the story goes, and just decided you wanted to do something together?

Jones: Yeah. We were driving in a pickup on a rather big ranch with Michael Fitzgerald, who ultimately became a co-producer, and Arriaga, and I looked at the other guys and I said, 'Fellas, you know, there's a lot of talent in this pickup; we ought to make a movie, okay?'

Tavis: (laughs) I wonder how many times in America that line has been used. 'There's a lot of talent in this pickup.' But I digress. Go ahead.

Jones: I can think of a few occasions. (laughs)

Tavis: (laughs) Touché, touché. So all this talent's in the pickup.

Jones: So we were going to make a movie about some things that we have in common. And really is that - country. I gave him a few ideas about narrative structure. The very old narrative form of a journey, where a person starts out in a mundane, rather possibly even evil place. We'll call him the hero, or Mr. Hero. He starts there and circumstances compel him to take a long journey through various other places. Some of them threatening, even quite dangerous. Some of them mysterious. Some of them funny. All of them arduous.

Usually somewhere along the way in this narrative form, there's an oracle of some kind. Until he winds up in a good place where he knows who he is and relates more gracefully to the world around him, where he has learned something and the spectator or the reader, having taken that journey with him, possibly learns something as well. That's a very old form. It served us well here. But I mentioned to Arriaga that he should take as a cornerstone or perhaps a keystone, a jumping off place for this.

And by referring to a real incident that actually took place several years ago, having to do with a United States citizen, a pitcher on a baseball team. But part of a Hispanic culture in west Texas. They had an identical culture just across the river. And like most families in this 200, 300-year-old culture, they kept goats. And it's usually one of the boys becomes the chivero, or the - it's his responsibility to watch goats. He pitches on the baseball team; he does his homework; he watches television.

And because his family culture, and who he is, he watches the goats. And he would turn them out at night and they would browse, so they could browse. He sometimes took a .22 rifle with him to keep the coyotes off of them, and shot at what he thought was a coyote. And there happened to be three United States Marines on stakeout not too far from his house, and they were given - they thought that they were there to guard against dangerous drug runners, because they were close to the river.

And they decided they were taking fire from an enemy, and they stalked the kid for 30 minutes and killed him, and then disappeared and nobody was ever brought to trial or punished. And many of us in that part of the country thought that if the incident had happened near Dallas and the kid's name had been Jimmy Williams, it would have been a different story.

Tavis: And you say, just jump in right quick, you say many of us in that part of the country, you say that because you are literally from that part of the country?

Jones: Yes, sir.

Tavis: Okay. Down in Texas.

Jones: Uh huh, in west Texas. So we, you know, a lot of us kind of resented that. And I thought that it would be a pretty good starting off, a keystone for Arriaga.

Tavis: So you're talking to Arriaga, your partner here, about this formulation that you think he ought to give some consideration to for the kind of movie that you guys ought to do together. But at that particular point, obviously you had not connected your formulation with this real-life story. So tell me where this real-life story comes into the picture, that you guys decide you're going to nail it together.

Jones: Well, I didn't want to make a movie about that kid because...

Tavis: Did you remember this story?

Jones: Oh, yeah. It's hard to forget. I didn't want to make a movie about that kid or his family. I certainly didn't want to do anything to molest the privacy of especially his mom and dad, and I didn't want to be really that specific. But there are social forces at play there that I thought should definitely be part of our story.

Tavis: Tell me, I'm trying to figure out how I want to phrase this. Tell me what it means for you to not just, to my earlier question, have remembered the story, but to indeed be a part of that culture, that part of the country, to appreciate the culture in the way that you do, and define yourself working on this particular project, shot on location in that part of the country.

Jones: Well, what it meant to me was that I got a chance to work at home, which is what I wanted to do anyway.

Tavis: (laughs) Right.

Jones: We shot a good part of the film on one of our properties, or at least it was our property at the time. And I was able to have, you know, dinner at home, sleep in my own bed and put several of the crew, to keep them right there at the headquarters of that ranch. Chris Menges, the cinematographer, stayed with us, had dinner with us every night, as did five or six and sometimes more, of the crew.

Tavis: There's so many lessons when I look at this thing, there's so many lessons that one can draw from this. There's so much social commentary, and I want to get to whether or not this was what you thought you wanted to do, or whether it's just a result of the story. But there's so much social commentary, so much political commentary, even economic commentary, cultural commentary. This thing is loaded with commentary. You had to be aware of that when you decided to sign onto this.

Jones: There's also some comedy and poetry.

Tavis: (laughs) Point well taken, absolutely, there is indeed.

Jones: And it's really easy on the eye. It's fun to watch. All of those things are, that's part of cinema, it's part of being a movie maker. It's the way that I suppose one makes commentary. I'm not very comfortable explaining what the movie is about, and saying, this is what we meant when we were doing that.

Because our business is to do that and let it say what we meant rather than stand along next to it or beside it and say, this is the meaning, this is the commentary. It's not a - if it has a really good day, it's a work of art that deserves to speak for itself.

Tavis: What was it like then, the obvious question here, choosing this as your feature directorial debut?

Jones: Well, it's just the movie we wanted to make, and circumstances that were such that we were able to do it. And as far as it being a debut, I asked people what that means. They say, well, it's your first feature. But I directed a movie for Ted Turner's television network, and I really enjoyed the experience and loved it in fact.

And I can't tell the difference, you know. From my point of view it doesn't have any meaning, the difference between doing a television movie and a so-called feature. I don't really - I don't perceive any difference at all, except that I have more time and money. And it's easier to put a naked woman on the screen.

Tavis: (laughs) And more time and more money allows you to do that.

Jones: Yeah, you have a little more time, you have a little bit more money, and a little bit more latitude. Not that I'm eager to put naked women on the screen, but I had use for one in this film, and I had no impediments.

Tavis: That said, is it hard directing yourself?

Jones: No. Not at all.

Tavis: You said that with such confidence. You didn't even hesitate. You said no.

Jones: No - I'll put my director's hat on. The thing I really expect is preparation and lots of very careful thought.

Tavis: And Tommy Lee does come prepared to the set every day.

Jones: And no nervousness. Of course I had no - and that was easy because I had been working with Arriaga for a year on the creation of this story, and of the character. And had been over every one of his lines, and every situation from every possible angle, hundreds and hundreds of times.

And I had the advantage as an actor of knowing where the lens was going to be and what size that lens was, and where all the cutting points were. You know, I was sort of the privileged actor that way. I had really close access to the directing concepts, because they were mine.

Tavis: So you're an actor in this project. You're a director, and I should add you are a producer on this project. So you're wearing three hats on this thing, actor, producer, director, and whatever else you did on the set, I suspect.

Jones: A few other hats. Sweep up at night, craft service.

Tavis: (laughs) So you're wearing all these hats on this project. How does Tommy Lee Jones navigate looking up months after, a year or so after this conversation with all this talent in the pickup truck, and you've got buzz, I mean real buzz, and now awards that are starting to be attached to this project. What does that do for you at this point, how do you handle that?

Jones: Oh, you have to be as diligent as you can. These distribution companies around the world want you to help them, so you spend a lot of time on airplanes, and there's a lot of travel time. I think in the last six weeks I've been to France twice, New York, Los Angeles, Mexico, Tokyo, Kyoto, a little time out to go to Argentina. I've been traveling around a lot, and talking to reporters, and being on television shows, and that's about what it means.

You get to be at home in a hotel, and that is kind of scary, really. And you actually develop, you know, you reminisce about hotels that you like. So you know things are kind of weird when you start to, 'Remember that really nice hotel we were at, in where was it? Paris? Kyoto? I don't know.'

Tavis: See, you're way too modest. 'Cause you went all the way around that question. You did it brilliantly. You went all the way around that question, and you're way too modest because what I'm really trying to get at here is the fact that you must feel awfully good about having started with a conversation in a pickup truck, and people are talking about Tommy Lee Jones and this project around Oscar time.

Jones: Well that's very gratifying. You try not to give that any thought. It's frightening. And you don't pay any attention. Like I said, you stay busy trying to sell it. It's very gratifying to have a chance to - I love motion picture cameras. I have sort of an emotional feeling about them. And it's just - they're made out of glass and metal, and there's a lot of knobs and wires on them. I don't - I love those things.

And you get a chance to work with them and deal with the color and shape. To give your visual life a chance to grow and to cultivate here, your visual life, and apply whatever you might have learned about the dramatic process all at the same time, is the soul of privilege to me.

Tavis: Let me confess something to you if I can. I was so excited about the possibility to have a chance to talk to you. And excited because one, I recognize, and I get this opportunity every day, that there's some people who don't do a whole lot of talking. Their work speaks for itself. They don't do a lot of talking, they don't do a whole lot of interviews, never mind the fact that as producer, director, star on this project, you've been traveling a lot, given the itinerary you laid out earlier.

You don't do a whole lot of this. I get the sense that this isn't the funnest thing, this isn't the most enjoyable thing for you to do, the most fun for you to sit and have these conversations. So I was excited to have you here. And excited because I know you don't do a lot of these, and so in the research preparing for this conversation, I dug and I dug and I dug, and I was blown away by the fact that there really is precious little about you out there, about you out there.

In part I guess because you don't do a lot of this. You don't talk a lot about yourself. But I'm trying to juxtapose how this guy could be an Academy Award winner. We know the stuff, you went to Harvard; you roomed with Al Gore. We know the movies, we know all that. But not a whole lot of stuff about you.

You have done a masterful job, I wanted to congratulate you on this, you've done a masterful job of being, as big as you are, it ain't nothing out there about you. How did you pull that off?

Jones: Evasiveness, combined with laziness and inaccessibility. I live in very remote places.

Tavis: But this is deliberate on your part. You deliberately made it difficult for me to learn stuff about you. You don't want me to know too much about you, do you? About you.

Jones: About me. Well, you know, it's nothing unseemly, I hope.

Tavis: (laughs) Not at all, no. I mean, we live in a world, and this is a business where so many stars, they're in your face all the time, and it's what I call 'TMI,' too much information. I know more stuff about people than I want to know, and I'm trying to dig up stuff about you, just to talk to you about you and your life, and you just don't say a whole lot.

Jones: Well I'd like to, I try to stay out of the - I like my work, but I try to stay out of the way. In other words, I don't take it personally and I don't - I like my work enough to try to stay out of the way.

Tavis: See, that's what I mean. He ain't saying a whole lot. Not getting nothing out of you. So this ain't working. So let me try something else. How do you go about choosing your projects? I raise that because again, looking at all the stuff you've done, you've been one of those actors who has been very diligent, my talking here, it seems to me at least from the outside looking in, about picking a variety of things to do. You've not stayed in a particular genre, you've not allowed yourself to be typecast as a certain type of character. That's deliberate as well?

Jones: I try, and I thank you for that. Somebody somewhere is going to type you or put you in a category. That's inevitable. But you try to avoid it to whatever extent you can. And how do I decide what to do? To put it simply, you simply take the best of what is available. A lot of factors come into play.

Tavis: Is there a lot of good stuff available for a guy like Tommy Lee Jones these days?

Jones: I don't know. I'm getting older. Certainly older than I was yesterday.

Tavis: Is that a good thing, or a bad thing as a white male in this business?

Jones: It's fine with me. I don't know if it's a good or bad thing. But the world is changing every day, so am I, and what do I customarily look for? There's, oh, a wide variety of things. You want to work with good actors, a good company of actors, and a good, certainly the best director you can possibly find.

You would like to have a confident production entity with access to really good distribution. You certainly look for a good business deal. Interesting location. Locations are very important for me for several reasons. One, because it's really important to me to find a place to work that my daughter and my wife will enjoy.

Tavis: Your daughter works with you?

Jones: In this movie. She is in this movie. Yeah, she's a good actress.

Tavis: She's got to be. She's Tommy Lee Jones' daughter.

Jones: Well, I was very proud of her. So there's a lot of drama in locations, or comedy, or whatever it might be. Just a wide variety of things. Sometimes you have bills to pay and all of those questions answer themselves.

Tavis: You said your daughter's a good actress and she's done a fine job in this project. But you said earlier that you like working with good actors. When I think of a good actor, and I'm not kissing up here, but I think of a good actor, as many of us do, we think of Tommy Lee Jones. But what is a good actor by Tommy Lee Jones' standards? I'm not talking about names, but when you say you want to work with good actors, what is a good actor?

Jones: I don't know. What you look for is, preparation. The presence of mind. Thoughtfulness. Generosity. Selflessness. And one prefers ladies and gentlemen.

Tavis: Yeah. You finding fewer and fewer in this business?

Jones: Maybe in the world. Manners are not what they used to be in this country.

Tavis: Yeah. So what happens from here? This project, as I mentioned, opens in LA and New York, and then it comes out in February. So what do you do between now and then? What happens between now and then?

Jones: Not a lot, I hope. I'll be doing some reading and some writing and, you know, we have other businesses that we're interested in. Namely real estate and cattle and horses. So there's plenty of things to do to keep us busy.

Tavis: You've come a long way from your days on that soap opera, haven't you?

Jones: Sometimes it seems like that was yesterday. And sometimes...

Tavis: (laughs) That's the one thing I found out. I had to dig and I said, I had no idea that Tommy Lee started on a soap opera. I do not see you as a soap opera actor.

Jones: I didn't either. But it was a good way to - I went to New York to work in the theater. And I did, but it was - you know, you couldn't pay all the bills working in the theater. So if you could work on a soap during the day and then get a sandwich and eat it in the taxi cab on the way to Broadway, or off-Broadway somewhere, and rehearse in the evenings or perform.

And all you have to do is be very well organized. There were years there when I was doing four or five episodes on a soap every week, and eight performances on Broadway at night.

Tavis: It all paid off, and now he is a star, a legend in his own time. "The Three Burials of Melquiades,' I was trying to get that out. That's not the easiest thing to say. I've been practicing all week. 'Melquiades Estrada,' starring Tommy Lee Jones. Nice to have you here.

Jones: Thank you. It's good to see you.

Tavis: My pleasure. Thanks for watching. Check out the film. Talk back to you next time on PBS. Thanks for watching, good night from LA, and keep the faith.