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Tavis: Harry Lennix is a talented actor whose resume includes films like 'Ray,' 'Matrix Reloaded,' 'Love and Basketball,' and a litany of others. He now stars, of course, on the critically acclaimed ABC drama, "Commander In Chief.' The show airs Tuesday nights at 9:00. Here now a scene from "Commander In Chief.'

Tavis: Harry Lennix, Harry Lennix. "Commander In Chief,' that's a long way from the south side of Chicago.

Harry Lennix: (laugh) It is, actually, yeah. Couple thousand miles, I think.

Tavis: Yeah.

Lennix: Yeah, but it's been quite a ride, and I've been enjoying every minute of it, so.

Tavis: It has been quite a ride. Could you ever have imagined growing up on the south side of Chicago, that you'd end up "Commander In Chief" one day?

Lennix: No, well, I'm just Chief Of Staff.

Tavis: I mean Chief Of Staff, yeah.

Lennix: (laugh) I'll get in trouble. Geena will kill me.

Tavis: Yeah, I don't wanna get Geena upset with me, yeah. Chief Of Staff. The brother ain't President yet. Although on that Fox 24, there was a brother President, Dennis Hazel was President for a minute. A quick minute. But anyway.

Lennix: Yeah, well maybe I can hop over there from time to time. Take over his duties. But I intended to be a priest when I was on the south side of Chicago. I studied for years in the seminary system there, with the Catholics. The Dominicans. So actually, it wasn't until college that I decided that I was going to be an actor, so.

Tavis: What kind of Chief Of Staff would you be if you were, in fact, a priest? I guess you have the same sensibilities, though.

Lennix: (laugh) I think so. I think that whenever you are dealing with who you are, and to some degree, going into a given role, for example, it's fairly conspicuous that I'm a Black man in the White House on the show. And obviously, there's something that Roger Wilkins talks about. He talks about this thing called the Black tax. That no person gets out of the American life without a severe penalty of being Black.

And I think that whoever it is, there's this myth about Black privilege which pales in comparison to the reality of what is White-skinned privilege. So, I don't think that Condi Rice or Colin Powell or whoever else has been in the administration, Republican or Democratic, can remove who they are from the part that they play in a given administration, and the policies thereof.

Tavis: Speaking of great lines, somebody told me the other day that being Black is a perpetual audition. Being Black is a perpetual audition. You buy that?

Lennix: I do buy it. And I think even as reflected on the show, there are a lot of times when people aren't quite sure of where my loyalties lie. And those kind of questions aren't always asked of the White characters on the show. So I am always, it seems, even in fantasy world of a female President, my loyalties are always being questioned, and I have to continuously audition for the loyalty and the trust of the administration.

Tavis: Although in real life, as you and I both know, that ain't the way we wanna live, and we wish we lived in a country where that were not, in fact, the case. But it seems to me, on another level, though, to be awfully insightful of the writers, though, to be keenly aware enough of that to put it in the script every week. Or regularly.

Lennix: Well, one would think. I am not...

Tavis: Unless the writers are tripping, they doing it because they don't, for a different reason.

Lennix: Again, I think that this is a question of being in an American construct. There are things that are not done consciously, but are part and parcel of the madness of race in America. The madness of gender in America. The madness of religion in this pluralistic society. And I think that there's only a certain amount of sensibility that anybody who is not living that life and in that skin can bring to it.

So I find myself, from time to time, having to get involved in some of the things that are said and done. Some of the attitudes that are expressed toward my character. Because of the way it can be seen for people watching it.

Tavis: Sure. See, I was trying to give writers some love, but I'm glad you said that. (laugh) I really wanted to explore whether or not, in fact, we have to check the writers sometimes. Which obviously, you just admitted. Or whether or not that was part of what they were attempting to do. To show that this brother, because he is a brother, has to defend himself and be perpetually auditioned every time something comes up. 'Cause that could make a statement in and of itself.

Lennix: It does make a statement. I'm not sure. I'm not in the writer's head. To this point, it has not been contentious at all. It has only been a question of bringing it to the attention of the writers, who seem to thus far have responded quite favorably to hey, let's look at what is being said about this man, and let's look at the way he responds to this given situation.

So, I can't really speak for them. I know they seem to be nice people, and well intentioned people. But even in light of that, somebody once said the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. And sometimes, White liberals or people who consider themselves progressives, sometimes actually do need to be checked in terms of their sensibility, as sometimes Black people and other minorities need to be checked about our sensibilities.

Tavis: I'm checking folk every day. (laugh)

Gingrich: Yeah, happens all the time.

Tavis: Black and White. I'm checking everybody, every day. (laugh) That said, one of the things I love about you, and I've said this before in your presence and outside of your presence, one thing I love about Harry Lennix, that you seem to have a good handle, and have had your own moral and internal compass for the kind of stuff you will do, and the kind of stuff you won't do. Very much aware of how important image is, and the light that you wanna be seen in.

Lennix: I think that it's part of the obligation for anybody who considers themselves an informed and engaged member of society, artist, scientist, or what have you. So, I am only sad that it isn't as common as it should be. Common sense isn't all that common, and people with a moral or ethical compass, whether or not we agree with that.

I'm not perfect, certainly. But I think that it is incumbent with my position, particularly on this show, and how that image goes out, that we start communicating the good things that we do, and a fuller, more dimensional aspect. Those aspects of what we do. For example, we continuously give awards, even NAACP image awards, to things that I think are sometimes very, very dubious.

We've given Academy Awards and nominations to people who were in films that are quite frankly offensive. Special people, retarded people, who will sacrifice themselves for the master. And this is something that Malcolm X talked about in the 'Message To The Grass Roots.' The "what's the matter, Boss, are we sick?" Is something going wrong with our plantation? And we have no ownership, largely, in this society.

And yet, we are continuously forced to prove our loyalty and our submissiveness to the larger society. And I think that that's gotta stop. End these images in this new millennium.

Tavis: Hey, man, you're too outspoken to be in Hollywood.

Lennix: I probably am. (laugh)

Tavis: You should be in the United States Senate, where you at one point thought you might be as a kid growing up in Chicago.

Lennix: I did think it then. And then...

Tavis: Barak beat you to the punch, I guess.

Lennix: This fella named Barak Obama. He's so brilliant and he's so capable, and I just look back and I look at him with awe. And I can think of no, I couldn't do as good a job as he's been doing, under the circumstances that he's been doing them. So maybe with a little experience watching him handle it, maybe one day, that time will come. (laugh)

Tavis: You can do it, trust me. You'd be able to put your mind to it, if you wanted to do it. So let me ask you. Do you get a check every time I see you on 'Ray' on cable?

Lennix: No. (laugh)

Tavis: They are running 'Ray' to death. I watch 'Ray,' like, every night on cable. I love this movie. But you were, like, so amazing as Ray's manager. I sat next to him on a plane the other day.

Gingrich: Joe Adams?

Tavis: Absolutely.

Lennix: That's the man. He's...

Tavis: Had a great conversation with Mr. Adams, yeah.

Lennix: He's a fascinating man.

Tavis: He really is, yeah.

Lennix: He's a Tuskegee Airman. He's a man who was the first coast to coast Black disc jockey in America. Duke Ellington wrote a song about him called "Smada," which is Adams spelled backwards. And he's a man who created many a career. And I think without him, Ray Charles would not be the sort of world class performer that he turned into.

Joe Adams always had a sense of style and a sense of being pulled up and presenting himself to the world stage. Having been an actor himself. So, a fascinating man, and somebody who was very interesting to play.

Tavis: I got about a minute to go. You met Ray as a kid in Chicago. And ended up in the movie years later.

Lennix: I did wind up in the movie. I met him; they were in town doing the 'Blues Brothers.' And that was filmed somewhere near the Maxwell Street area, as I recall. And I was 13, 14, maybe. And I went down and I got a chance, very briefly, to meet him. And I'm sure he didn't remember it, (laugh) but I did meet him later on at his own studios. In L.A., right before he passed away. So that was a great honor.

Tavis: So "Commander In Chief" finally is doing well anyway. But we just heard days ago that the 'West Wing' on NBC is being canceled at the end of this season. So now you guys are, like, the only President on television. And Chief Of Staff.

Lennix: Well, yes, I think so. Insofar as a show about the presidency and the White House. Yeah, then I guess that would leave us as the only one standing. I'm sure that there'll be some competition in the offing.

Tavis: Well, I think that's the way it should be. A White woman as President, and a brother as Chief Of Staff. I'm down with that. (laugh) Yes. That's, yeah. Of course, it is television. But we can dream, can't we?

Lennix: We could dream.

Tavis: We can dream.

Lennix: We can always dream.

Tavis: I love you, Harry Lennix, nice to see you.

Lennix: Good to see you, Tavis, always.

Tavis: That's our show for tonight. You can catch me on the weekends on PRI, Public Radio International. Check your listings. See you back here next time on PBS. Until then, good night from L.A. As always, thanks for watching, and keep the faith.