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Tavis: Tim Flannery is an acclaimed scientist, explorer, and conservationist whose latest book tackles the alarming reality about global warming. Hey, don't turn the channel. The book is called "The Weather Makers: How Man Is Changing the Climate and What It Means for Life on Earth.' Tim, nice to have you on the program.

Tim Flannery: Thank you very much, Tavis.

Tavis: I told folks not to change, 'cause they hear global warming, they think I don't wanna hear this. Or they think a boring speech by Al Gore. I like Al Gore, but they think of somebody discussing climate change and global warming and they wanna turn the channel right quick. I'm fascinated by your text, because you've done something that few others have done, which is to cast this issue as a moral issue.

And since we love to debate, you're Australian, but since we love, as f, to debate moral issues in this country, maybe casting it as a moral issue makes the conversation more relevant and more interesting. But tell me first why you cast it, then, as a moral issue.

Flannery: Well, the reason I did that was that it's an issue that involves our impact on the rest of the world. And all moral issues are like that. And if you think about it just in human terms, and consider that what we do today will have a big impact on our childrens' lives in 10 or 20 or 30 years' time, you can see why this is such an important moral issue.

It is, do we wanna keep on driving our big cars and not thinking where our electricity comes from, if it's gonna cost our children dearly in future? Now, that's the trade-off.

Tavis: Let me slow down for a second and give you the opportunity to tell me what the problem is. When you say global warming, we've heard that term and yet, because we're so turned off to it, and to the conversation about it, most of us, I think, still don't know what global warming is. So again, in this book, you lay it out in a very readable and usable and embraceable way. So let's talk, first of all, what global warming is. What is the problem here?

Flannery: Well, look, it's a simple, old-fashioned air pollution problem. Every time we create our electricity or drive our cars, we're creating a form of pollution called carbon dioxide, which is part of the natural system of the atmosphere. But in the volumes we're not putting into it, it becomes a pollutant. And that pollutant has the power to change the world's, the world's climate system.

So it's melting our poles, it's causing our rising sea levels. It's changing rainfall patterns around the world. It's bringing disaster to places like sub-Sahara in Africa, where you can see in Darfur the sort of outcomes of these shifts in climate. So, it's an air pollution problem, basically, at heart. And it's just the greenhouse gases tend to trap heat near the surface of our planet.

And that it takes quite a while to escape. And those greenhouse gases will be around for about a century. They're very long-lived in our atmosphere. So they're a problem.

Tavis: So tell me again, then, what it is that we are doing, specifically, all of us are doing, which is exacerbating this problem?

Flannery: Well, see these lights here in this studio?

Tavis: Right.

Flannery: The power that drives them is coming probably from an old coal-fired power plant somewhere way out there. Maybe a hundred miles from here. And that's nineteenth century technology. People take coal, burn it in that coal-fired power plant, and the carbon in the coal then forms carbon dioxide, which is a very large waste stream.

For every ton of coal you burn, you get nearly three and a half tons of carbon dioxide. 'Cause the oxygen atom joins the carbon to make the molecule. So it's an air pollution probably, and that's where the pollution's coming from. From driving cars, burning coal for electricity, or any other use of fossil fuels.

Tavis: I like your very simple and very apropos example. Problem is, if I turn off these lights, we don't get seen by - by the folk who are watching this conversation who need to be empowered around this issue. So on a serious note, what is the alternative, then, to me sitting here talking to you with these lights burning?

Flannery: Well, we gotta source the electricity from other sources. And there are so many of them out there. There's geothermal energy and wind and solar power, solar thermal technologies, wave power. There's endless possibilities out there. The reason we're using coal still is that we don't pay for that pollution.

So that makes coal a relatively cheap way of generating electricity. But as with every air pollution problem, you've gotta adopt the polluter pays principle. And once you do that, you find these other sources of electricity become very, very competitive.

Tavis: Yes, so for those of us who feel that we have to drive these big SUVs, what and how does that contribute to the problem? 'Cause so many of us, for kids and hauling around stuff, and we feel that we have to have that kind of space. What's the problem there?

Flannery: Well, the problem is again just a pollution problem. In the U.S., about I suppose 40 percent of your pollution is coming from transport. And it's so unnecessary, quite frankly. The number of SUVs and big cars I see out there on the road with one person in them is pretty amazing. And if you trade in one of those cars and buy a smaller car or a hybrid fuel car, you can cut your emissions by 70 percent, which is huge.

And that's about the amount we need to cut our emissions globally to stabilize our climate. So if you can do that in one day by just trading your car in for a more suitable model, you've made a huge contribution to the future.

Tavis: What's the window here? And I don't wanna be alarmist, but obviously, this issue is so serious that there must be a window here for when this thing is gonna implode, explode, whatever's going to happen. And I'm not trying to be apocalyptic here, but what's the window here?

Flannery: Well, look. No one can predict the future, Tavis. But we do know that we are approaching a tipping point, in terms of the way the climate system operates. The general scientific consensus is we've got a decade or two to do it. And what that means, really, is that people like you and I are in the hot seat.

Tavis: A decade or two? That's like 20 years.

Flannery: Yeah, that's right. Ten to 20 years to start making those big reductions. So it's you and I, and the present day business leaders, and present day politicians that have to make the decisions on this. We can't put it off to another generation. The damage is building quickly.

Tavis: To your point about leaders, I started this conversation by suggesting that many people are turned off this conversation. You worry you do a righteous show like this, whether or not the ratings drop, because it's just not a sexy topic. And yet, it's one of those things that if we don't address, we end up, as you mentioned, in 10 to 20 years, imploding, exploding, and none of this matters, 'cause we ain't around here to talk about this, because we've got major problems.

That said, if that's how I feel as a talk show host, if I'm a politician, and you start raising these issues, that doesn't lead to votes. What leads to votes is telling people you're gonna get tough on crime, you're gonna lower their taxes, etcetera, etcetera. How, then, do we encourage, do we empower leaders to raise these kinds of issues? Because it really is life or death.

Flannery: Well, Tavis, that is all about education. And there are some of your viewers tonight who might be hearing some details of this for the first time. They'll look back in five or 10 years' time and see this as perhaps the beginning of a long journey. This issue will dominate our future. It's where all the economic opportunities are gonna be, around the energy sector, and that creates enormous wealth.

It's where all the danger to our environment's gonna be. And it's where the profound moral issues lie. So, once people understand what's at stake here, whether they be talk show hosts or politicians, there is only one way forward. To address this, to realize that it's actually a really interesting issue, as you start learning about it.

It's the critical issue of our age. And it's the issue where the greatest moral responsibility for our generation lies. So, with all that said, we have to educate ourselves on this.

Tavis: I would suggest to you, respectfully, that one of the reasons why this kind of conversation doesn't get the traction that it deserves is because if you're watching or listening or even reading about a conversation like this, an issue like this, this is a prime, perfect, quintessential example, if you will, of why people feel powerless.

Because when you lay out the problem, you touch my heart, okay, I wanna do something about this. But I start saying to myself, am I, just one person, going to really have an impact on global warming if I do what Tim suggests that I do?

So I guess the question is how you get people en masse to respond to this? Because as individuals, we all feel so helpless where these issues are concerned.

Flannery: Nothing but individuals have ever changed the world. And the things that you and I do are so important. As I said, every little reduction you make, whether it's changing your light globes for more efficient ones, or trading in your motor vehicle, are all contributions that will help us edge towards that climate stability.

And of course we need leadership. I don't see enough solar panels here in America on church roofs. I wonder why? What are the churches thinking about this issue? The same with businesses. Anyone can be a leader if you're a member of an organization when it comes to this issue. Suggest that you have an (unintelligible) done at work.

Or that maybe the church as a look at this issue, and decides how they're gonna address it. And politically, we will see movement when the people agree that movement needs to be taken. So I do believe that it's very important that each of us come to our own terms with this, treat it as a moral dilemma for us, and start to move forward.

Tavis: Let me get you and me both in a little trouble here, and I'm just putting this out there 'cause it occurs to me as you speak to me now. Since this is such a critical moral issue, and since this, again, not just a moral issue, but a life or death issue, ultimately. Ten to 20 years, we're talking about a life or death issue here.

Isn't this one of those areas where, perhaps, government ought to get involved and start mandating certain ways of living? Certain lifestyle changes? And again, I say that with some trepidation, 'cause we don't want government intrusive too much in our lives.

But again, if it is a life or death issue for all of us, then it stands to reason that somebody somewhere who has the authority, who has the power, has to say this is a government mandate. You have to drive a car this size. The industry can no longer produce these kinds of vehicles. You have to do this. Is that the solution here?

Flannery: I don't believe so, Tavis. I think that government sets the rules. And if government sets the rules in a sensible way that will make the polluters pay, we will see the free market economy unleashed to do powerful things. We'll see a tidal wave of innovation. As new people who think about ways they can generate electricity at a profit without polluting will start to see an opportunity in the marketplace.

So, what I'd love to see government do here is just adopt a broad-based revenue-neutral carbon tax. So take some of the other taxes off, put a carbon tax on. Send a signal to the marketplace. That way, you don't increase the overall tax burden, but you do shift people's thinking, in terms of this pollution issue. And enormous wealth will be generated.

As I said, this is a great threat, but also an enormous opportunity. Every time our energy infrastructure's shifted, whether it was coal in Great Britain in the nineteenth century, or oil in America in the twentieth, amazing wealth has been created. And the same thing is gonna happen with this transition to the new low emissions economy.

Tavis: So maybe that's the message. Maybe the message here isn't a moral issue; it's that other "M" word, money.

Flannery: (Laugh) That's part of it as well.

Tavis: Yeah, so there's money to be made now. What? What?

Flannery: That's right.

Tavis: (Laugh) Now you got folks' attention, there's money here. Finally, tell me whether or not you are, in fact, hopeful about the future, and about the possibility for a turnaround here. Because I've rarely heard anybody discussing this issue who was hopeful that anything is going to happen. Not that it can't; but that it isn't, because they don't see enough movement. So are you hopeful, or are you as depressed as everybody else in the environmental movement?

Flannery: Well, look. I got into this business not to fight the good fight, but to win. And I am hopeful. I can't be anything but hopeful. I know time's short, but I do believe in the goodness of people, and I do believe that our free market economy can move us forward on this. And that education is the key. So it's great being here tonight to further that education.

Tavis: And we're glad to have you here on this program. It is the new book by Tim Flannery, "The Weather Makers: How Man Is Changing the Climate and What It Means for Life on Earth.' Tim, nice to have you here.

Flannery: Thank you very much, Tavis.

Tavis: Up next on this program, singer Ne-Yo. Stay with us.