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Tavis: I'm pleased to welcome Governor Tom Vilsack to this program. In 1998, he became the first Democrat to win the state House in Iowa in more than 30 years. In 2004, he was on a short list of names to be John Kerry's running mate. Recently, he returned from a trip to Iraq and Afghanistan as part of a bipartisan delegation of Governors. Governor, nice to have you here in L.A.

Gov. Tom Vilsack: You bet. It's nice to be here.

Tavis: Not Iowa, but we're glad to have you out here.

Vilsack: That's all right.

Tavis: Speaking of Iowa, tell me what a Governor learns on a trip to Iraq. Typically, we don't have folk on this show that are members of the Senate, members of the House, on these fact-finding missions. Why does a Governor go, and what does a Governor learn?

Vilsack: Well first of all, Governors are commanders-in-chief of the National Guard members from their respective states. So this is an opportunity for us to basically see where our troops are, and to thank them for their service. It's also an opportunity for us to make sure that they're being treated well, that they have the equipment and the personnel that they need.

There's a real critical concern about the National Guard all over the country because of the equipment that's being used over in Iraq and Afghanistan not being returned to the United States. And the result is that we have concerns about training in the future. So this was an opportunity for me to sort of see firsthand what was going on.

Tavis: So that begs the obvious question. So what did you see?

Vilsack: Well, I'll tell you, two different scenarios. In Afghanistan, I saw a people that are very tired of fighting, and are looking for the opportunity to create a stable and secure environment for children, for families, and for their community in their state, the country. In Iraq, not quiet sure about that. I'm not sure if the Iraqis have fully made up their mind that they wanna stop fighting and start building a country.

If they ever make up their mind to do so, I can tell you they have enormous potential in that country. They have fresh water, they have a port, they've got oil reserves, they have a very literate population, so that there is a great potential there. But it all ends up sort of depending on whether the Iraqis themselves wanna make up their minds to get things straightened out.

Tavis: I assume that a guy even thinking about running for the White House in '08 or a guy who others are thinking about him running for the White House in '08 had better have some ideas and some critique, critical or otherwise, about what this particular White House has done or not done, as it were, with regard to Iraq. So what would Tom Vilsack's answer be to a query like that in a debate somewhere?

Vilsack: Well, first and foremost, we need a commander-in-chief and a President who is curious. Who asks the tough questions of the military and the intelligence to make sure that whatever information is being given upon which you're gonna make the most serious decision you make as a President, to send people in harm's way, is absolutely accurate and absolutely complete.

Secondly, when you make the decision to send young men and women into harm's way, you'd better make sure that they're adequately equipped. One of the great tragedies of this war is that we sent young men and young women into battle without adequate armor. And I think it's atrocious that we had to have bake sales in my state to make sure that our National Guard men and women were adequately protected.

And finally, if you're going to do this, you'd better make sure that you've got a plan not just for the best case scenario, but what's going to happen if everything goes exactly the opposite of what you expect? We did not have enough troops when we entered that country. We did not secure the borders, we didn't secure the ammunition sites. And as a result, we're paying for it with conflict and chaos right now.

Tavis: This is a bit unfair, let me ask you, though. It won't be the first time you get asked an unfair question on the campaign trail, should you make that leap. So get used to this, as well. That said, it's unfair because you don't have all the information in front of you that President Bush obviously has in front of him. But what is your sense of what ought to happen right now in Iraq, where the U.S. is concerned?

Vilsack: Well, the next six months are extremely important to the country. Three things have to happen, one of which may have happened this weekend with the formation of a government. Secondly, there has to be a functioning economy in Iraq. The United States assistance and aid for reconstruction is going to be drastically reduced by the end of this year, and there has to be a functioning economy in order to take up the slack.

And that means basically taking the oil reserves and beginning to refine them. In order to do that, you have to build the structures that would allow you to refine the oil. To do that, you have to have security. Which means that you've gotta build a police force of 150,000 people. I think the real thing that is yet to be determined is whether or not we can get a police force of that size up and going by the end of this year.

If we can, then I think you're gonna see a great deal more security in that country than you see today. A functioning government should put to rest a lot of the insurgency that's taking place. And then they'll just simply be dealing with the folks coming in from the outside.

Tavis: I would assume that a Governor from a place like Iowa would have interesting thoughts about energy supply, particularly given that oil is what so many people believe this thing is all about to begin with.

Vilsack: Well, I have a slightly different take. I think one of the reasons why we became interested in Iraq was to have a balance, an opportunity to show success, what success could look like with a market-based economy in that part of the world, in addition to Israel, to sort of balance off Israel. Oil is certainly part of it, but I don't know that it's only about oil.

Having said that, this country is far too dependent, the United States is far too dependent on foreign oil supplies and energy supplies. We in the Middle East or the middle west of the country, we have aggressively pursued renewable energy and renewable fuel sources. My state today is the number one producer of ethanol and soy diesel, and the number three producer of wind energy, electricity by wind energy.

And this is a renewable energy source that can not only provide greater security and independence for the country, but also can bring prosperity to rural America. And I think we should see a much more aggressive effort on the part of our national government. Today, Iowans are spending more per capita promoting renewable fuels than we are as a nation. And it seems to me that we ought to be doing much, much more at the national level.

Tavis: Does that mean the price of gas is cheaper in Iowa?

Vilsack: It is indeed cheaper, and in fact ethanol, the renewable fuel, is roughly 15 to 20 cents a gallon less expensive than regular gas.

Tavis: I'm moving to Iowa. (Laugh)

Vilsack: Well, we'd be glad to have you. Are you bringing the show?

Tavis: Yes. Everybody, everybody, we're moving to Iowa next week.

Vilsack: Okay. (Laugh)

Tavis: Speaking of Iowa, we all know that everybody who wants to be in the White House, sitting in the Oval Office, at least, has to start in Iowa, has to go through Iowa. Can a guy from Iowa, though, win?

Vilsack: Well, it's an interesting challenge for someone from Iowa who would consider this. Tom Harkin did this in 1992, and it wasn't easy for him, because there's an expectation on the part of Iowans that they'll have an opportunity to size up the field. And so, we wanna make sure that everyone is invited and feels comfortable coming to Iowa.

At the end of the day, you're going to have to convince Iowans not based on what you may have done in Iowa, but based on what your vision is for the country and its future. That's what they'll be looking to, and that's what they'll be looking for. So while you may think there's a natural advantage there, not necessarily so.

Tavis: Bill Frist, I suspect, would say the same thing about a straw poll taken in Tennessee, and he crushed the competition. So I'd have to think that in Iowa, you'd come out on top. How does Tom Vilsack play outside of Iowa, I guess would be the question for you.

Vilsack: Well, I think whether it's Tom Vilsack or any candidate, it really is do you have a compelling vision for the country? It seems to me that we have three very fundamental challenges. One is to make sure that we really get the full benefit of the American bargain. The notion that when you work hard, that you can get ahead in this country.

That used to be the way things were, but today, too many people are working very, very hard and not getting ahead. So we need to transform the economy to return the full benefit of the American bargain. Secondly, I believe that we have lost a sense of community in this country. A sense of connectedness. We need to tackle the big issues, healthcare, retirement security, true education reform, in order to create a sense of community in this country that will allow us to do great things.

And finally, and probably most important of all, we need to make sure that we keep people safer than they are today, and that we rejoin the community of nations. That we are a world leader. A leader that inspires and is not feared by other nations. These are three massive challenges, and I think any candidate considering 2006, 2008, national office or federal office needs to be addressing those challenges.

Tavis: I find myself often on this program, Governor, reminding people, thankfully, I think, that we live in the most multicultural, multiracial, multiethnic America ever. I say that almost routinely around here. 'Cause I think it's instructive and informative for our conversations about how to make America better.

That said, I confess that in other forums, outside of public television and public radio where I've offered commentary or been asked this question about Iowa and New Hampshire being the lead states in the primary campaign, as an African-American, I have an issue with that. I love Iowans, got nothing against Iowa, been there many times.

Love corn. Nothing against Iowa, except for the fact that as you well know, Iowa's like, what, 94 percent White? And I wonder whether or not that is a good barometer? Iowa or New Hampshire. Not just to bag on Iowa. But Iowa or New Hampshire, good barometers here for someone who could lead the nation who's not had to deal with the kind of diversity and ethnicity and race that so grips the rest of the country.

Vilsack: Well, I don't want anybody viewing this program to think that we don't have to deal with issues of significance and importance as it relates to people of color and people from different cultures. We do in Iowa. There's no question. We've seen a dramatic increase in the number of Latino families in Iowa, and we are adopting them and we're embracing them, and we're dealing with all of the issues are inherent in new people coming to our state.

I also don't want folks to think that diversity is simply defined only by color. There are a number of other kinds of diversity, not the least of which is age diversity, which is also a significant issue that has to be addressed. Having said that, I think the Democratic Party recognizes the need and the necessity to have a broader view and a broader approach at the beginning of this process.

Which is why there's consideration to creating additional caucuses or additional contests between Iowa and New Hampshire, or shortly after New Hampshire, that will broaden the base just a bit. And I think that's probably, at the end of the day, a good thing for the party. I'm very, very loyal to Iowa and New Hampshire's position in this process, because they do a very good job of retail politics. They force those running for office to be real people.

They force folks to come into living rooms, into coffee shops, to have conversations that are real. And I think in this process today, which is so much driven by television and media, having candidates be real makes a big, big difference.

Tavis: I've often wondered, and you are an Iowan, so you can tell me, whether Iowans would actually love a reprieve during one election cycle, where they didn't have all these other guys bombarding their state for, like, weeks at a time with every campaign ad. Your door gets knocked on eight times a day by every candidate in your neighborhood. Maybe you want a reprieve from that one time.

Vilsack: I don't think so. I think Iowans take that job very seriously. If you come to the caucus process, you come to interviews, you come to events, you'll see Iowans with notepads, and sometimes you're not sure whether they're reporters or just regular citizens. They're taking notes for their friends and neighbors.

This is, I think, politics at its best, at its grassroots - it's people energized and involved. And again, in larger populated states, sometimes there's a disconnect between the politician and the voter. In Iowa, it is very personal, it's very up front, and I think it's important to the process.

Tavis: There are a lot of folk who, and I'm curious to get your take on this, 'cause you're the head of the DLC now, there are a lot of folk who think that the DLC has not been good for progressive politics in America. Traditional progressive Democrat politics. Black people, as you well know, love Bill Clinton.

But Bill Clinton was head of the DLC, and I think history, in some regard, is gonna debate whether or not Bill Clinton was really all that good for progressive politics because his policies ended up pushing the Democratic party to the right. I ain't the first person to say that. You've heard that any number of times.

But people, when they see that moniker, DLC, and anybody representing it, they start to think, is this guy too centrist for progressive politics in America today?

Vilsack: Well, two things. First of all, to change America, to improve America, you have to be in a position of power and authority. You have to be able to govern. In order to govern, you've gotta win. And the reality is that America today, elections are won in the middle. Whether we like it or not, whether we wish it weren't so, the reality is elections are won in the middle.

So you have to have policies that appeal to ordinary Americans, all right? Having said that, I think it's important for us to understand that making America more progressive is not something that can occur in one election cycle or two election cycles. It's something that must occur over a long period of time.

Republicans have done a terrific job of setting in place the infrastructure that has moved this country to a more conservative place. They've spent hundreds of millions of dollars, they've got over 80 think tanks. They have a political operation all of which is coordinated and organized. Democrats have very little of that.

So in order for us to move the country to a more progressive place, it's not just about winning elections. It's also about creating the infrastructure. And that's gonna take time and resources. I think Democrats now understand that, and we're working towards that. The DLC has a very important role. And that role is to generate big ideas. To generate new ideas. To challenge the status quo.

We are a party that must convince people that we can keep them safe. We are a party that must convince people that we're not about the status quo. That we're embracing reform. We're a party that understands that there are people struggling out there, and we need to be able to identify with those people again.

That means that we have to talk about the values that are important to Democrats. I talk a lot about community. I think it's a value that is underrepresented in our conversation as Democrats. It's a value that describes why we think healthcare is a right and not a privilege. Why we think the public education system ought to be improved and invested in.

Why we think a decent-paying job is very important to a family and community. The value system of the Democrats is a strong one, and we need to continue to talk more about that value system so that people don't think that we're a party of special interests or narrow interests.

Tavis: I'm glad to have you on the program for the first time, and I suspect if you decide you're going to make this run, we'll get a chance to talk any number of times between now and '08. And you're welcome back here any time you want.

Vilsack: Well, when you're in Iowa, I'll be able to see you quite a bit. (Laugh)

Tavis: Exactly. (Laugh) This guy's good. Governor Vilsack, nice to have you on.

Vilsack: Nice to see you.

Tavis: Glad to have you on the show. Up next, Grammy-winning musician Ben Harper. Stay with us.