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Tavis: Cathleen Falsani is the religion writer for the "Chicago Sun-Times" who writes a weekly syndicated column on spirituality and popular culture. Her new book is called "The God Factor: Inside the Spiritual Lives of Public People." Cathleen, nice to have you on the program.

Cathleen Falsani: Thank you for having me.

Tavis: I didn’t know religion writers could wear boots like that. Jonathan (ph) you see these boots?

Falsani: We do in Chicago.

Tavis: In Chicago, you can wear boots like that. Okay. (Laughing) Nice to have you on the program.

Falsani: Oh.

Tavis: Tell me why this matters and by this, of course, I mean the spiritual lives of public people. Why does it matter today?

Falsani: The reason I did this book is because we, we’ve been having this public conversation that’s been growing increasingly loud in the last five, six years that mostly has involved people in politics and people of a certain ilk in politics in particular. And we’re, we seem very compelled by the faith of our leaders. But I thought that there are more than just our political leaders that shape our culture, so that we should invite more people into the conversation. And that’s why I approached the book the way I did. And in terms of why it matters, I think we kind of see ourselves, we hold up a, a mirror to ourselves when we look at people who are well-known. Something to compare ourselves to, something to react against. It’s just sort of fascinating in that way.

Tavis: Two fascinating things, at least for me, given what you’ve just said now, one, what’s the value in drawing, pulling, cajoling, more people into this conversation just because they happen to live public lives? What’s the value in my being exposed to their spiritual side just because they happen to be public figures?

Falsani: Well, if more regular people, for lack of a better word, weren’t also talking about this with increasing regularity, it’s not an impolite thing to talk about your faith in polite society anymore, then I don’t think it, it would necessarily be valuable or helpful or necessary for us to hear the voices of more people in, in public life. But because what the, what’s happening in their lives are also happening in the lives of all of us, that’s why I thought it was an important, helpful, hopefully thing to do.

Tavis: If I accept your notion that this conversation is happening more and more and that more of us are being engaged in this conversation, is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Falsani: I think it’s a good thing. I think that faith or beliefs or morals, ethics, whatever you want, religion, spirituality, however you’d like to define it, seems to be a, a real anchor, a real core issue for so many of us. And that not talking about it, and, for many people, seems kind of artificial.

Tavis: For those public figures who do talk openly and candidly about their faith, why do they choose to do that from your vantage point? And the flipside of course, for those who do not, why do they choose to stay as private about it as they can? I think in the political realm, certainly, of the last election season, President Bush was far more open talking about his faith and John Kerry wanted it to remain essentially a private matter. So for those public figures, particularly elected officials, politicians, who do so publicly, why do they do it, from your vantage point, and for those who do not, why not?

Falsani: Well, not to be a cynic, but I think some people use it as a, a playing chip, a card, a, a, it, it’s not terribly genuine. I don’t like to judge people’s faith, but there are some people who seem to use it as a, I don't know, some sort of advertisement, some, something to validate or give sort of a, a divine imprimatur to whatever it is that they’re trying to sell us politically. But then there are others who, I think, talk about it from a really genuine place. It’s this, it’s a significant part of their life and they can’t not talk about it.

In terms of the people who are in other kinds of public life who talk about it, I think the, again, it’s, it’s a rather fraught area for somebody, say, a, a well-known actor to give himself or herself a religious label. Because when you do that, you’re automatically alienating a certain portion of the public. So the, for the people who are known for their spirituality of, of a certain flavor, another Tom Cruise or John Travolta, Scientologist, Madonna, I, I think they’re doing it because, and this is just my opinion, they’re compelled to by their faith. And there are a lot of people who are afraid to talk about it. And there are some people who just are never asked. And that’s the majority of the people in the book.

Tavis: I want to throw a few names at you in just a moment.

Falsani: Sure.

Tavis: Because there are some names that are profiled, persons profiled in this book where the name and being a person of faith may seem, how can I put it, oxymoronic.

Falsani: Right.

Tavis: May seem a bit mutually exclusive, but we’ll talk about that just a second with regard to specific individuals. Before I do that, though, one last question here.

Falsani: Sure.

Tavis: When you suggest that some people use their faith as a way of advertising, as a way of selling us, of bamboozling, hoodwinking us into believing whatever they’re trying to put on us…

Falsani: Right.

Tavis: …How do you know when you’re being played that way? And, and I ask that because if I happen to disagree with your style or for that matter your substance, but you fundamentally, and faithfully, believe in what you believe and you put out there, you know, am I right to say are you just trying to sell me something you’re advertising, your faith? If you really believe this, I mean, how do I know when I’m being sold a bill of goods than I’m being played here versus someone who is speaking to me from a place of genuine and earnest interest in the subject matter?

Falsani: Well, for me, it, it, I’m not gonna judge someone unless I’ve met them. And even if I have met them, I really try to not judge because that just turns around on you. But there’s a certain, there are a few people that I’ve talked to and had conversations with, like the ones that are in the book where I just felt the, I was getting shtick. I wasn’t getting the genuine thing. They were hiding behind something or they were trying to put up a front. It’s a, it’s a, it’s a vibe that I think you can only really get when you experience someone face-to-face.

That’s why, I mean, some people say the, they’ll criticize President Bush and say, well, you know, he says he’s a Christian and all this stuff, but, you know, I think it’s just a load of hooey. And, I might not agree with his politics, but I don't know the man. And I haven’t had this kind of conversation with him, so I’d like to give him the benefit of the doubt. I think that, that, that he is a genuine believer. So it’s, it’s a difficult…

Tavis: It’s difficult. It’s a bit…

Falsani: …line to walk. It really is.

Tavis: It’s a bit tricky because by, by the very nature of the fact that these are people who live public lives, which means most of us never get a chance to actually engaged them on a one-on-one situation as you and I are having now, then by definition, then, we never get a chance to really know, to connect to whatever it is they’re telling us, about their faith, which makes the whole conversation about public, about faith and public lives…

Falsani: Right. I guess, it’s sort of a…

Tavis: It’s a, yeah. You see my point?

Falsani: …a vicious circle.

Tavis: It’s a vicious circle, exactly. (Laughing)

Falsani: But what I tried, what I tried to do…

Tavis: That’s what I was trying to say, it’s a vicious circle, yeah.

Falsani: I know. And what I try, I’m, I’m basically asking people to trust me.

Tavis: Right.

Falsani: That I’ve spent time with these people and I wanted to have a conversation with them that was more than just about a label, and that I wanted them to really be able to talk about what it is that they believe or don’t believe freely without fear of me judging them. And that’s what I don’t do that in the book.

Tavis: Let me throw some names at you right quick.

Falsani: Sure.

Tavis: And tell me what your impressions were of the conversations with them. Hakeem Olajuwon, former NBA center. I raise him because he happens not to be a Christian.

Falsani: No, he’s a Muslim.

Tavis: Muslim, yeah.

Falsani: And he’s a most gracious man. A really lovely human being who, my experience with him, I went to his home in Sugar Land, Texas, and everything about him and everything about his home was a testimony to the faith that he was telling me he was living. His demeanor, it was a day where it was about 115 degrees outside. And he was fasting. And it was an optional fasting day, something that he just does out of devotion. And he was concerned that I had enough to drink and that I had the, and then at one point, in fact, got up mid-sentence and moved my water and my orange juice closer ‘cause he thought it was too far away from me.

It, just very, very gracious and very humble when he talked about his, his faith and how he was raised in a Muslim country as a Muslim, but came to the United States and sort of fell away a little bit. And then when he re-embraced his faith and started again from scratch, he’s just a remarkable man.

Tavis: We go from a Muslim to a Jew. Elie Weisel.

Falsani: Oh my goodness.

Tavis: Yeah. Nobel laureate no less. Yeah.

Falsani: I had a hard, yes; I have a very hard time talking about Professor Weisel without getting emotional. He’s a, an extraordinary human being. The, the depth of the kind of wisdom that I feel he has, both from what he’s experienced and because of his abiding faith against all the odds. He says he believes because he can’t not not believe. Goodness. It was like - somebody asked me, I’ve met him a few times. The first time I met him, what was it like? And I said, "It was like sitting with God." And I didn’t mean that in a flippant way. I meant it in a, in a, the way, his demeanor. Sort of beleaguered and sorrowful and yet, sort of shrugging and hopeful. There’s this well of, of love and hope in him that’s amazing, I think.

Tavis: When I saw this next name, I had to look twice to make sure I saw it. I said, "Does that say Hugh Hefner?"

Falsani: It does.

Tavis: Does that, (laughing) does that say Hugh Hefner?

Falsani: It does indeed.

Tavis: Okay.

Falsani: It does indeed. Yes, I went and, and spent time with Hef at the Playboy Mansion in fact. And Hef is, is not someone that you would immediately think of as a person of faith, and I don't know that he would describe himself necessarily as a person of faith. But he certainly has a very active, well thought out, practiced, spirituality. It doesn’t approach anything that looks like orthodox religion to most of us. But it’s something that he’s, he’s just turned 80. When I talked to him, he was 78. He’s spent many, many years thinking about and sort of constructing a moral universe for himself. I call it the Playboy Theology in the book. And within that construct, he really does believe that he’s a moral man.

Tavis: Mmm. Finally, so many people profiled here, Bono.

Falsani: Oh, my.

Tavis: Yeah.

Falsani: My favorite. (Laughing)

Tavis: Yeah. Yours and a bunch of other people’s I suspect. (Laughing)

Falsani: Oh. He, he’s the kind of person that when you’re around him, you just want to be better and do more. And that’s because of the kind of faith he has. He would smack me if he heard me say that I think, but he really is an incredibly faithful man, and a humble believer. He says that he’s the runt of the litter and he’s a bad advertisement for God and I, that’s something I resonate with. He’s a Christian. He, he often says he doesn’t like to give himself that label. But that’s not by any means a denial of, of his faith in, in Jesus. It’s because he doesn’t want to make God look bad.

Tavis: Wow.

Falsani: Because he’s a faulted sinner just like the rest of us.

Tavis: Yeah. We’re all cracked vessels, aren’t we?

Falsani: Yes, indeed.

Tavis: "The God Factor: Inside the Spiritual Lives of Public People." It is the new book by Cathleen Falsani, religion writer for the Chicago Sun Times. Fascinating reading Cathleen; nice to have you on the program.

Falsani: Thank you so much for having me.