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Tavis: Jed, I promised that I would start this conversation with you about these twin evils, if you will, of race and poverty. Angela, previously in our conversation, Angela Glover Blackwell, raised this issue and it seems to me we can't be honest. As we like to say, we can't keep it real and walk around these issues of race and poverty.

In the "Times-Picayune,' you were part of a team that won Pulitzers for the work they did on reporting what happened here in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. What did we not get? What have we still not gotten, as it were, about the intersection of race and poverty and the impact that intersection had on what we saw after Katrina?

Jed Horne: I think it came as a shock to a lot of Americans to understand the level of poverty that exists in a major American city at this time and, if Katrina was the eye-opener, then that was one of the very few good things that Katrina did.

I'm concerned, as I think Angela is and others on this panel, that the ball has been dropped and opportunities are being missed to focus not just on hurricane recovery, but the underlying phenomenon of a Black city, which is what New Orleans fundamentally is and remains and should always remain, receiving a second-rate kind of disaster response as it has received a second-rate kind of support for decades past.

I think the message that needs to get out there is that it didn't start with Katrina even if that was the moment of truth and revelation for a lot of Americans. These have been persistent problems. This has been a city in economic decline for fifty years. I'm afraid there has not been an adequate response on either side of the aisle in Congress addressing those kinds of problems.

We are living through a slow-motion version of the kind of destruction that happened in a week, you know, way back in early September and it hasn't gone away. I mean, there are failures at every level. I think there is a fundamental vacuum within city government that has not come forward, has not stood us up, has not provided if nothing else the rhetoric and the exhortation, the kind of moral leadership, that we miss and that we need.

Tavis: Angela, in your mind, since you've been here doing this work, how do you get traction on a conversation about public values? I think he's right. If you can do that - big if - but if you can create that conversation about public values, it moves beyond a conversation about race and poverty and those folk in New Orleans and maybe then we can again start to make some progress here.

Angela Glover Blackwell: When we talk about having a public conversation about race and all the implications of it, it doesn't mean a conversation in which everybody in every city is talking to their neighbors over the fence about it. It means that the people who are making decisions, who are setting the tone for the country, get comfortable talking about that reality.

The truth is that it happened to be New Orleans where the blanket was pulled off, but it could have been Richmond or California, it could have been parts of Chicago or Detroit or any number of places, and we need to have that discussion. That the kind of poverty that we saw, the kind of isolation based on race that was apparent here does take place every day and how did we get to that point?

To say that, as a country, we are going to do something special to bring New Orleans back and we're going to do it not just because we ought to do it for the people of New Orleans. We need to do it because we need to demonstrate to the American people that it can be done. We need to demonstrate that it is important as a nation that we live up to the standards of the nation and, while the world is looking at this place, let's be clear about the failure of the public schools and who suffers because of that failure and build a world-class public school system.

Let's be clear about the fact that, in this country, where you live has become a proxy for opportunity. It used to be that you were Black, you didn't have opportunities. It didn't matter where you lived. You weren't getting any. Then after we got rid of the law that allowed us to live that way, it became, well, you can live where you can afford and where you can afford is going to be your community. There's going to be no good schools there. There's not going to be transportation to connect you to jobs. Nothing that you need in order to thrive is going to be there. Where you live has become a proxy for opportunity.

So as a nation, let's demonstrate that we can create communities of opportunity and we can make sure that everybody has access to what they need and we begin to build those communities here. Talking about, doing it, describing historically how did we get to this point, and making a commitment to be able to do something going forward because New Orleans needs it, yes, but because the nation needs a demonstration that we can build an inclusive society because, if we don't build an inclusive society, we don't thrive and we don't survive.

So if the leaders start talking about that, if the elected officials start talking about that, if foundation presidents start talking about it, we're starting to have a public conversation and then people will start talking about it over the fence.

Tavis: Representative Marchand, how do we, in these next twenty-four months, if you will, generate that conversation about these issues that Angela raised? Not just these public values, but public values around education, around health, around the criminal justice system and reform, economic empowerment, all these issues. How do we generate that kind of conversation in and over the next twenty-four months?

I concentrate on that because it seems to me that, if no other time outside of a disaster, we can get a conversation ostensibly going around election season as you move toward mid-term elections, as you move toward the presidential election of 2008, in the middle we will commemorate the 400th anniversary of the settlement of Jamestown where the Africans first arrived to make America the country that she is today.

How do we, though, over these next twelve to twenty-four months in this, you know, critical election season - it only comes once every four years - how do we get that kind of conversation going?

Charmaine Marchand: And that's exactly what I was about to say. I think part of those conversations are actually going to start up within the next couple of months because of the fact that we have our Congress people running. We've got different elective positions actually running right now or qualifying right now for election. Those are going to be key issues that are going to come up with regard to - some people are going to run on platforms with regard to how do we change the stigma? How do we change the things that are happening in the city of New Orleans that have been prevalent to us for so long?

In addition to that, the conversations are happening right now on the state level, and they've got to continue to happen. They happen every day. But I'm not comfortable right now with how we cover the conversation too often. We try to make it so that we don't hurt feelings of those that are being included in that conversation, but we need to stop trying to be nice, and we need to start just laying it on the table.

That's one of the fears that a lot of people have. They don't want to insult somebody. And people always jump to the defense that, 'Oh, I'm not prejudiced;' but the fact that you said you're not prejudiced shows in life that you actually are. Those are where some of the conversations have to happen on the state level with regard to legislation that we are coming up with. Even with the fact that we did legislation on voting rights issues - which was definitely Black targeted - in our city council meetings, with regard to what homes are going to be redeveloped, what communities are going to come back.

These are where the conversations have to begin, and they have to, from there, go further into our federal government in front of Congress with regard to things that we're demanding to happen for our communities.

Tavis: I just want to shift gears here somewhat dramatically back to the cultural front with Royce and Irma Thomas here. Let me ask you what's happening - Angela raised this, I believe, earlier - on the issue of education. I raise this now because I think we all know that in regards to race, class, ethnic origin, annual income, I think we all recognize and would agree that, without an education, certainly as Black folk, we are twice defeated in life. So that if we can get this education thing right, if nothing else, that bodes well even for Black kids who are yet unborn. Talk to me about what's happening on the education issue post-Hurricane Katrina.

Marchand: Well, we had issues prior to Hurricane Katrina. Let me make that clear. We had the state take-over legislation that went into place even prior to Katrina. That has now played a big role in us being able to actually get our school systems and our schools back on line. Money here is definitely a big key issue. We have several schools that, prior to Katrina, were substandard. A lot of classrooms were overfilled, did not have the proper technology, did not have the proper books. We weren't paying our teachers enough. We were losing the great teachers to our neighboring states.

So the problem with our education system has to be addressed, but it needs to be addressed on more of a local level instead of a state level. The state is so removed with regard to what they do in the Department of Education compared to the people that live here on a day-to-day basis and what's happening to our children with the LEAP exam and everything else. We've got kids who were told right after Katrina that the LEAP exam was going to be suspended. Now these same people who were told that the LEAP exam was going to be suspended are now being subjected to having their kids to repeat the grades because they've now said that you can't move on because of the LEAP exam.

We've got to start sticking to what we say. We've got to hold them accountable to what they say. We've got to make sure that our education system gets back on track and our health care system gets back on track. We've got a lot of people out there and this is one of our problems with our Criminal Justice Department. A lot of people out there are not being medicated properly for some of the problems and issues that they had prior to Katrina. They're coming back and not being medicated and they're going out there and they're having episodes.

In order for us to take this issue by control, we've got to properly medicate our people. We've got to give them the help that they need. But it's not just those who were affected prior to Katrina. We've got people that's been affected after Katrina. We've got people that actually have gone through all kinds of stress issues. My father, in particular, has been diagnosed with Parkinson's because of the stress. I mean, my mother's been hospitalized because of stress. We've got people - more people have committed suicide, we have had more people to go through divorces. Our divorce rate has gone up.

We've got to attack these issues and we've got to attack them right now with regards to our health care system and our education system. The only way we're going to get the jobs that we need to build our economic development here in the city of New Orleans is through those two things and there's no other way we're going to get it done. Money is the key issue there.

Tavis: Those issues certainly need to be addressed to make this city the city that it can be again, but it is impossible obviously to have a conversation about this city without talking about the culture that this city has exported to the entire world. Before I talk about that, Miss Irma, let me ask very quickly your story. Take me back a year ago, where you were. I know that you were displaced by this hurricane. Tell me what happened a year ago.

Irma Thomas: Well, the weekend that the hurricane came, I was out of the state. I hadn't had a job in six weeks and the one job that I had took me to Austin, Texas. My band and I had taken off that Saturday morning with just enough things to spend the weekend and come back. We were hoping to get back into the city that Sunday. Well, of course, we all know what happened that weekend, and I watched my house flood by way of television. I also found out by way of television that they thought I was one of the victims in the storm, which I was happy to get on line and tell them, no, I wasn't (laughter).

Tavis: There were a number of legends in this city - yourself, Fats Domino and others - who people thought had perished. Of course, we are delighted to know that you were and are still all right. A year later, you back in that house?

Thomas: No, a year later, you know, as I've often told people in doing interviews, sometimes out of disaster, some good can come. So I have been a very busy person since Katrina happened and I've been on the go. So just this past week, I've just started to work on getting my home back in a livable state.

Tavis: But you intend to stay?

Thomas: Oh, I'm coming back. Please (laughter).

Tavis: All right. So we know that you are coming back. Is the culture of this city, the fabric, the imprint of this city, going to make it back with you?

Thomas: That's going to take a lot of raising hell, first of all, and a lot of understanding that the people who were displaced, who made the bulk of the culture what it is, were living in the Lower Ninth Ward. That's the area of the city that they seem to be having difficulty making up their minds what they want to do with it. A lot of generations of musicians lived in the Lower Ninth Ward aside from other parts of the city. I live in the Ninth Ward, but not the Lower Ninth Ward.

I feel that, out of all the people who've done things to help this city, the musicians have been the ones who've been called upon more often to do fundraisers. Even though they need funds, they have gone out and done fundraisers. The one question that always comes up is, okay, we're doing these fundraisers, but who is it going to help and when is it going to help?

There are musicians who are living three and four states away who want to be home, who want to come home and perform, to be a part of the fabric of this city that they were before. They don't have the monetary means to do that. So, the monies that we're going out raising, they want to know where is that money going to go. Is it going to come back and help those musicians that want to get back? Our families, not just musicians, theater people, who were active in this city, want to come home and be a part of this city again.

One other thing that has happened since Katrina, the city of New Orleans has now had an opportunity to realize how important art is in this city to the economic growth of this city. So they have awakened to that issue, but nonetheless, we want to know - aside from the fact that they are coming up with these little villages, the musicians' village, that's just a small, minute part.

You have hundreds and hundreds of musicians who are actively working and have to commute back and forth to the city for gigs or have to commute back and forth to places that they don't want to commute back and forth to. They want to be in New Orleans and they are really concerned about whether they're going to be looked upon as a true citizen and brought back or are they just going to be a part of the leftovers.

Tavis: Royce, tell me how you're feeling a year later about the reweaving, if you will, of this culture fabric in this city?

Royce Osborn: I think, even six months ago, there was more hope from people. You know, right around Mardi Gras time, I was following some Mardi Gras Indians uptown, a lot of these people who had lost all their materials, lost suits, but they were determined to come out for Mardi Gras. They had to make the suit. It was as important to them as rebuilding their house, to be out on Mardi Gras Day and when they did hit the streets, they were, you know, something spectacular that people saw and that gave other people a lot of hope that their city was going to come back.

But since then, I've just seen people losing hope. It's been so slow, you know, to see six months later that things are still where they were a year ago. It's really devastating and it's starting to lose, I think, a lot of the creative community who come here and who live here basically because of the culture. That culture is possibly disappearing because - I mean, that culture, the New Orleans culture, is dependent on poor, Black people.

You know, we spoke earlier about whether Black people were being kept from returning to the city. When I first heard people discussing that when I was evacuated a year ago, I just thought, well, it's impossible. New Orleans is the most African city in America. You are not going to get rid of Black people. But a year later, I've seen Black people being evicted from houses that they've been renting. I've seen Black neighborhoods being appropriated. I've seen the tearing down of housing projects, Black people being killed and jailed, to the point where, you know, you believe that, yes, they are trying to keep Black folks from coming back to New Orleans.

But it seems to me that it would be cutting your own throat. This is a city that thrives on tourism and culture and, if you don't have that, if you don't have the musicians and the social clubs and the Mardi Gras Indians, you'll lose it all.

Tavis: But, see, Jed, that's where the disconnect is for me. On the one hand, to Royce's point, you have to have that if the city is going to be what it was, what drew people here in the first place. You have to have that. But on the other hand, I don't see what the magnet is, for lack of a better word, to draw them back. Aside from the fact that Irma's right, that people want to be here, what's the magnet to draw them back?

If you don't have the jobs, if the electricity isn't up and running the way it should be, if the schools aren't back on line, if the health care system is not back on line, if as I keep reading - you all live here, I don't - but as I keep reading, the value of property is skyrocketing. Folk can't afford to get back, to rebuild or to buy or anything else.

On a very practical level, I'm just trying to figure out that we want them here, we need them here to make the city what it was and even better, but there's got to be a magnet to bring them back. What is the magnet or magnets? How does that happen?

Horne: One thing that has to happen is for all of us to acknowledge that nostalgia, sentimentality, lovely feelings that we get all warm and fuzzy about here in New Orleans, is not enough. There needs to be an economic engine, there needs to be a directed and dynamic leadership that leads us towards economic engines, job opportunities, job training, housing programs. I mean, whatever motive may lie behind the fact that, ten months or twelve months later, we still don't have the billion of dollars that were promised to the city.

Call it racism, call it whatever you want, call it partisan politics. We got a Republican president, we got sort of the last Democrats down here in the south, whatever the underlying motive, and the effect is very inhibitive, very off-putting. The effect is to keep Black people out because the working poor in this city are Black. It's a Black city, so inevitably you're going to have a Black preponderance among the working poor and there is no provision for aggressively bringing them back here.

Tavis: I wonder whether or not you get to a place, whether or not there is a particular place where, if by this particular certain date and time, the people have not come back, you can forget about them ever coming back? What I'm trying to get at here is that, if there is no magnet to draw them and they don't come back the first month and they don't come back the second month, it's a year later and people have not come back, are you concerned that you will get to a place where you look up and you just realize they ain't coming back?

For whatever reason, for whatever we didn't do, whoever was behind this sinister plan, they stretched this thing out so long, played this game so long, that they just wore people out and they ain't coming back?

Thomas: I would like to be very optimistic in that I would hope that that never happens mainly because, if the people who were the artists in this city have the same love for what they do and where they got started as I have - I'm about to cry right now - I hope that they don't give up. It may be a year or two years.

I realize they have families and they are looking for help monetarily and I do hope that, within their hearts and if it's at all possible, if someone outside the city of New Orleans will give them the monetary leg up that they need to get back to their properties if they have some, that they do come home. As they say, and not to be using a cliché, there is no place like home. If your heart is there, then you have to be there. I hope they don't give up. I didn't give up. I refuse to allow somebody else to steal my joy.

Tavis: Powerful words from a strong and proud woman. From my time in New Orleans last week, I could see progress being made in the rebuilding effort, but so much work remains to be done. While the United States focuses these days on Iraq and the war-torn Middle East, the tragedy of Hurricane Katrina is still very real for tens of thousands of people in New Orleans and all along the Gulf Coast.

If we can rebuild Germany and Japan following World War II, Iraq after Saddam Hussein and Beirut after another deadly Middle East conflict, then surely we can do the same for a great American city.

That's our show for tonight. You can catch me on the weekends on PRI, Public Radio International. Check your local listings. I'll see you back here next time, though, on PBS. Until then, good night from Los Angeles. Thanks for watching and, as always, keep the faith.