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• Mr. Richie's official site
• Mr. Richie's official Island Record site
• Q & A with Mr. Richie
• About "Coming Home"
• USA for Africa

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Tavis: I am please to welcome Lionel Richie back to this program. The music icon has sold just a measly 100 million records worldwide. (Laugh) You gotta stop being so lazy, man.

Lionel Richie: Come on, man.

Tavis: To go along with his five Grammy awards and an Oscar, hard to believe that next year is the fortieth anniversary of the founding of the Commodores in Tuskegee, Alabama. One of us is getting older, and I think it's you.

Richie: Yeah, I'm getting older, there's no doubt. (Laugh) Makes an old man wish for younger days.

Tavis: More on that in a moment. His latest CD, 'Coming Home,' in stores this week. From the new disc, here's some of the video now for 'I Call It Love.'

Tavis: Good to see you, man.

Richie: Good to see you. Finally, again.

Tavis: You been all right?

Richie: You know what? A workaholic. Traveling the entire world, and having a wonderful time doing it.

Tavis: Why, after - come on, you got 100 million records, dude, what's the problem? Go sit down somewhere.

Richie: I know. You sound exactly like so many people. Why are you doing this? And the answer is I don't know what else to do. I've been trying to figure something else out. Fishing is out. (Laugh) That's just not working for me.

Tavis: Don't they do that in Alabama?

Richie: Yes, but that's the reason why I left Alabama. (Laugh) I'm not into fishing. I love what I do. I lucked out. If I had gone and become a lawyer or a doctor or something, yes, retirement would be something I would be looking forward to right about now. But I've never had a job yet. I'm actually still enjoying the process of creating, touring, seeing the world, and...

Tavis: And you ain't too far, one of my friends calls L.A. Lower Alabama.

Richie: Lower Alabama. Well, that's the same.

Tavis: (Laugh) You ain't too...

Richie: It's the same thing. But once you...

Tavis: You ain't too far.

Richie: ...recognize the fact that hey, fishing is not your main passion, and two, mosquitoes, you understand me? They have mosquitoes down there.

Tavis: You got to come west.

Richie: I gotta get away from them.

Tavis: Go west, young man.

Richie: Gotta go west. Go west.

Tavis: That song, 'I Call It Love,' you - I'm not gonna say more than any other writer, but certainly as much as any prolific songwriter, there's something about this thing called love. I was saying to a guest the other night, I just gave a speech not long ago to a particular group, and the speech was entitled, I call the speech 'Love Wins.'

Richie: Absolutely.

Tavis: 'Love Wins.'

Richie: Exactly.

Tavis: And I thought about that, relative to that song, because you have written more about love than anybody I know.

Richie: I discovered something strictly by accident, but whether you start out in funk - let's go back to where the Commodores started - funk, or disco, or punk rock, or acid rock, or gangsta rap, or you name it, sooner or later you're gonna say three corny words to somebody. I love you. I don't care who you are. And you desire love. You desire to be loved. You desire to be out of your mind in love.

It sounds corny, but we all get there. And when you do get there, there's a whole space of I lost someone, I found someone, I need someone, you hurt me. There's so many vignettes to this word called love that when you start thinking about it, this is 30 years now I've been writing about that same subject. And as it turns out, the entire world is singing all about these songs. People get married on these songs. They get divorced on these songs. They live their lives on these songs.

Tavis: After 30 years of writing about it, do you think that you have exhausted the subject matter?

Richie: Never.

Tavis: Never.

Richie: Never. That's what's so amazing about it. When I first started out with the Commodores and you're 19 years old, you write about the wonder and the possibilities of love. Why? 'Cause it's innocent. You don't know. So you write songs like 'Just Wanna Hold Your Hand.' You write those kind of phrases. Or the first time I saw you. And then as you get older, you write from wisdom. Like right now, in 2006, I'm writing from wisdom now. And so it becomes a little bit more in-depth. I just can't write I wanna hold your hand. I know too much.

Tavis: That don't work no more.

Richie: That don't work no more.

Tavis: Still sounds good, though.

Richie: Sounds good.

Tavis: Sounds good, yeah.

Richie: But I have to come now from a little bit more wisdom. I think that's how my grandmother said it. What comes with age is wisdom. So I'm coming now to give you a little bit more insight into the fact of yes, the reason you were hurt is because this is what happened. Because so many times, I would write a song, I had the words, I didn't have the experience. And then as time went on, I realized I now know why that lady was crying on the front row of the concert when I wrote 'Still.' I wasn't there yet. I wrote the words, but I didn't know what I was talking about, exactly.

Tavis: So let me flip it on you. So now that you had the experience, have there been times where even with that experience, you sit to write and you don't have the words?

Richie: It comes very rarely, but it also means that, what it means, that I have to go a little deeper. I have the words. I might not wanna go there. Because sometimes, those words may require me to go deeper inside of my own experiences to share what I personally have gone through. Which is sometimes very difficult to give up. When you start writing a song that actually is something that you, like for example, when I went through my divorce.

Is there a song you wanna write during a divorce? No, there's not a song you wanna write. But there might be an absolute phrase that you may say that goes (makes noise). Okay? Now when I give that up, everybody'll go, okay, that's Lionel.

Tavis: And yet, I've heard from artists who sat in this very same chair, and certainly comedians, that sometimes your best stuff comes from a place of pain.

Richie: Absolutely. I hate to say it that way, but because you - they use pain, I use the word real.

Tavis: Real pain. (Laugh)

Richie: You can't fool yourself.

Tavis: Yeah.

Richie: You may try to. But only in pain can you just - you're so face to face with your own reality that you just can't fake it. So you will write a phrase because it's just honest. It's the way you feel. So a lot of musicians and artists say I have to be in pain. But really it's just that pain makes them real. Real.

Tavis: You said something a moment ago that made me think of something that Bill Moyers, another great PBS host, said to me one day, according to one of his friends, who said to him that sometimes I don't need faith, I have experience. Sometimes I don't need faith, I have experience. I thought about Bill, because that whole faith conversation comes out of a biblical (unintelligible).

Richie: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Tavis: And I'm trying to connect some dots here. I thought about that because talking about love, one of my favorite Lionel Richie tracks is 'Jesus Is Love.'

Richie: Is love.

Tavis: So you've talked about love in all of our human dimensions.

Richie: Oh, please.

Tavis: But when you put that song out, 'Jesus Is Love,' tell me about that project. 'Cause I hear that song to this day, and it just moves me.

Richie: Listen, Tavis, I understand exactly what you're - I wrote the song, and didn't realize what I was getting myself involved in. I'm an Episcopalian. The heaviest thing that happens during any one of my Episcopal services is during any one of my Episcopal services is (makes noise), (singing) amen. You follow me?

Tavis: You gotta come to the Baptist church.

Richie: You understand me?

Tavis: Or in my case, the Pentecostal church.

Richie: The Pentecostal church.

Tavis: Yeah.

Richie: Well, I am sitting there, and for some weird reason, I am writing what I consider a love song, until I get down to the hook. The hook goes, Jesus is love. He won't let you down. And I'm thinking to myself, now, what do I do with this lyric? Finish it is the first part. I'll just finish it and come back and change the hook later. When I finished that song and put this record out, it is frightening how this song has just locked itself in time, in history, in families.

I can tell you inspirational letters I get. People stopping me on the street. People in tears, crying. In Washington, DC, they play it every morning at 10:00, guaranteed. They will play it 10:00 every morning. They will stop work in the Capitol, the workers, to hear this song. It's just, I will go to visit churches and have the good sense to say no, I won't sing with the choir. 'Cause sometimes they say Lionel, would you come and join us and grace us with your...

Tavis: Yeah. (Singing)

Richie: And I'm looking at this woman who's been sitting there, and I know there's a difference between an Episcopalian delivery, and she's getting ready to weigh it out. So I'll say (laugh) could I just sit here and enjoy your presentation? Oh, yes, Lionel.

Tavis: Hey, you didn't do so bad with the choir in 'Waiting to Exhale.'

Richie: Yeah, but let me tell you something.

Tavis: That wasn't 'Exhale,' that was 'Preacher's Wife.'

Richie: 'The Preacher's Wife.'

Tavis: 'Preacher's Wife.'

Richie: No, no, no, but see, that was a whole different ballgame. See, cause the pressure was not on me, it was on Whitney. That's wonderful.

Tavis: Yeah. (Laugh)

Richie: But see, when they say Mr. Richie, would you come up, now you know there's a choir of 40 people who have been singing this, and they are ready to impress Lionel Richie. Please, Lionel, (laugh) stay in your seat.

Tavis: To that point, is it your sense - it's certainly mine, but you're the expert here on this music thing, not me. Is it your sense that there really are people, never mind 'American Idol,' there really are people in churches and other places all across this country who can hit it, but never get that moment?

Richie: Let me put it this way. The answer is yes. 'American Idol' is the greatest amateur show on television. Guaranteed for amateurs. Okay, now, can they handle a 40-week tour? Excuse me, a 40-date tour? Absolutely not. Voices are too fragile. Do they have the experience of show business? Do they know how to, what's that word we're gonna use now? Entertain?

No. They can sing. They can hold a note. Can they entertain?

Tavis: Whole nother thing.

Richie: Now, church people can entertain. You wanna really get messed up on stage? Jump on a stage with Patti LaBelle.

Okay? You understand me? It's a different ballgame.

Tavis: I feel you, yeah. (Laugh)

Richie: Right? You get someone who has never done a hit record but they sing in the choir at the church every Sunday. Don't go on that stage with that person, because that is a professional entertainer that knows how to move the crowd. That's a talent.

Tavis: We're professionals. Don't try this at home.

Richie: Don't try this at home.

Tavis: Don't try this at home, yeah. (Laugh)

Richie: You'll get yourself messed up badly. See, so this Episcopalian right here sits quietly and gives them the sign. I give them the sign, and let them go on, because there's some talent out there that is unbelievable.

Tavis: To your point of being Episcopalian, you were, at one point, you thought at least, headed to being an Episcopalian minister.

Richie: Yeah.

Tavis: Yeah, what happened?

Richie: I got, (laugh) I met...

Tavis: You sold more records this way, but. (Laugh)

Richie: Well you know what, I'll tell you what it was. I was actually not quite sure. I was brought up in a community where the Episcopal Church was very, very strong. The clergy was very, very strong. And I felt, at one point, moved to be able to do some kind of service to the community, maybe as a minister. After my freshman year at Tuskegee, I went to New York City with the Commodores. And one woman in the front row said, sing it, baby. (Laugh) I immediately called the bishop on the phone.

And I said, I think we might wanna approach this from a different angle. But now, show you how this works. When I stopped being a priest there and decided to join the Commodores, two weeks after I did 'We Are The World,' two weeks after 'We Are The World' came out, a couple of my ministerial friends called on the phone and said, your ministry is doing quite well. In other words, there are some ministers that do every corner church in the world.

Tavis: But you have a ministry, though.

Richie: I have a ministry. And what happens with me, when people walk up to me and tell me, I was contemplating suicide, but your song 'Zoom' did this. Or I'm in bliss, I met my wife, and 'Endless Love' was our marriage song. Or just the fact that I was (sounds like) Ms Brickhouse. Anything to inspire.

Tavis: I've added a few more bricks.

Richie: Yeah, I saw your, mm hmm. Yeah. (Laugh) I just thought I'd throw that in.

Tavis: Yeah, yeah, but I was Ms. Brickhouse, yeah.

Richie: Yeah, but what happens, of course Ms. Brickhouse has three kids.

Tavis: That's what I'm saying; she had a few more bricks, but yeah.

Richie: Each 22 years old now. But it's so wonderful when people get around me and they do one amazing thing. Smile. They may be crying for a moment, but they start out smiling. When they meet me, it's as if they are meeting an old friend, and they are speaking to me, sometimes too much information.

Tavis: Yeah, TMI, huh?

Richie: Too much. Lionel, I've made love to you many times, son.

Tavis: Yeah. (Laugh)

Richie: Now I'm thinking to myself, no you haven't. Oh, no, you haven't. But then I realize as he keeps talking. But it really is very, very, very refreshing to get around people who just wanna just, they feel around me.

Tavis: Well, let's just imagine for a moment, you've sold 100 million records worldwide. How many babies do you really think you are responsible for?

Richie: Now, let me just say it to you this way. As long as the last name is not Richie? (Laugh)

Tavis: Yeah. (Laugh)

Richie: You can have as many babies as you want.

Tavis: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Richie: I have three, and that is probably just about it.

Tavis: And that's your story.

Richie: That's my whole story.

Tavis: And you're sticking to it.

Richie: Yeah, that's my story.

Tavis: Yeah, I got three, yeah.

Richie: You understand me? I have three, but I have people that - and it's hilarious. They will come to me and tell me. My husband and I, oh, Lionel. And you were there. And you were there in the room. (Laugh) And I go, no I wasn't. Oh yes you were, Lionel. Oh, you were right there. And there's the husband going yes, oh, yes you were, Lionel.

Tavis: You were there, yeah. (Laugh)

Richie: And I'm going please, ladies and gentlemen, please. Let me just leave the room.

Tavis: Are you cool with being Nicole's daddy instead of Lionel Richie?

Richie: I love it. You know what happens? There's a wonderful part that - and if you live long enough, your kids will actually make you relive the relationship you had with your mom and dad. Whether you, I fought it for years. I am not going to let my life even reflect slightly the fact of how my dad brought us up. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna be that strict; I'm not gonna be that rigid. And of course, I brought back the days when I went to the Commodores, went to my mother and father and said, "I'm quitting school in my senior year."

I've joined a group called the Commodores. We're the Black Beatles. And we are going to take over the world, Mom and Dad. Now, my dad was not happy for me, and I couldn't understand that. (Laugh) In fact, the words he said, I can't repeat them on the show.

Tavis: Yeah. (Laugh)

Richie: But my father was just not happy. Now, segue. Couldn't figure out that whole, and for years I just thought that was just an unfortunate situation, relationship between me and my father. Okay? Nicole, sitting there with Paris in the living room. Dad, we have a TV show. Oh, congratulations. And what characters will you play? Very rich, very famous, very spoiled, and we're gonna travel around the world spoofing people on the fact that they are just living their lives. And we're just gonna be ourselves. Great. Dad, it's a reality television show. Would you like to be on it? I said the exact same words my dad said.

Tavis: (Laugh) That you can't repeat on this TV show.

Richie: I can't repeat on this television show. But here's the wonderful part that happened. I said I told you so to my mom and dad a couple of years later, and Nicole and Paris said the same thing to me. They walked in the door that day, 'cause I just had no faith in it whatsoever. Because I used the same words as my father. What about the reputation of the family, and we've gone this far, (laugh) and what, blah, blah, blah. And of course, she came back with that it's the number one rated show. Thank you.

Tavis: Tell me about your mama. And I ask that because we have had this discussion before between the two of us, but our mutual friend, Tom Joyner, big-time radio personality...

Richie: I love Tom.

Tavis: Tom Joyner talks about your mama.

Richie: My mama.

Tavis: Whenever you meet somebody and they talk about somebody else's mama all the time? And he's not telling your mama jokes, I should clarify this.

Richie: No, I got it.

Tavis: When he talks about your mama, it is with a certain reverence that is uncommon for a Black man to use in reference to somebody else's mama. Whatever the impact was your mama had on him, it was humungous. Tell me about your mother.

Richie: We grew up in a town where the town, the community, the village, had a standard. It was just not only my mom, but it was Tom's mom, and all of our friends' parents. They had a standard. We used to hear things like, that's not how a gentleman is supposed to act. That was just drilled in us. Well, that's not the way a young lady is supposed to act. You would hear this every day.

But the village believed this. Well, my mom just happened to be the elementary school teacher, seventh and eighth grade. She was the English instructor. So naturally, all of our reading and our writing and our public speaking, my mom was the one who basically was the instructor there for us. And she was also the example. So everything that Tom would say was now, Ms. Richie said you say it like this. Well, everything that Tom does now on mic is a total violation of my mom (unintelligible).

Tavis: (Laugh) Of what your mama taught him.

Richie: (Laugh) So, and of course the same thing, of course, same with me. Can you imagine? My mother's an English instructor. And of course, the only words I use in my whole career as a Commodore is ow, oh, girl, (unintelligible).

Tavis: Hey, you did use outrageous eight times on one night.

Richie: You understand me?

Tavis: Yeah.

Richie: It becomes, is my mother gonna go out of the house the next day? 'Cause she's living on the college campus. This is Tuskegee Institute, or Tuskegee University. And we had to always come back home, 'cause when Tom's mom was living, we'd have to go fact the community. So whatever Tom said outrageous on the radio, we have to go face the town. And my mom was just the standard that everyone tried to maintain. In other words, oh my God, Ms. Richie's gonna be mad at us now.

Tavis: Yeah, I understand.

Richie: And I love her for it, because it kept us all on that, this is where the margin is, even though we're gonna violate the rules. But it kept us straight.

Tavis: When you were here last, you were here, as I recall, celebrating the twentieth anniversary of "We Are the World.' When you guys did that. Now, we're just, like, around the corner from the fortieth anniversary of the Commodores. Does it seem like 40 years? And I ask that also because we all read with sadness recently, one of the founding members...

Richie: Milan Williams.

Tavis: ...passed away.

Richie: Milan Williams passed away of cancer, and Tavis, I must tell you, I went down to Mississippi, to Okolona, Mississippi, to bury Milan. And I will tell you something. It was surreal. You play back every memory. We're sitting in my grandmother's basement. We're going to be the Black Beatles, we're gonna take over the world. In the middle of the Civil Rights movement, here's some guys running around talking about we're gonna take over.

Come on, what's going on here? We traveled the world. We took the world over. We became a household name around the world. It happened. Six country boys from Alabama that didn't know any better, but we believed it. Forty years later, it seems like yesterday afternoon. And standing there in Mississippi just brought us all back to the oneness of the fact that I'm so happy there was something in my life that I believed in.

Because that is, again, God bless Nicole. I understand what she's saying. Dad, we're gonna be famous. Forget about how to be famous. She didn't care about that. Just, she wants to be famous. And when you're 19, 18, 15, yes, you can fly. Of course you can fly. There's no limits to life. Somewhere around 45, 50, you start getting practical. But before that, everything's possible. And so, what 40 years represents to me is thank God for the Commodores, 'cause I would have never been Lionel Richie.

Tavis: Well, who knew that 40 years later, you'd have, I saw this piece on 'Nightline.' You got the Sunnis and the Shi'ites.

Richie: And the Shi'ites.

Tavis: Singing your music in Iraq. You are the most beloved artist in the whole country of Iraq. Singing your music in Iraq. You are the most beloved artist in the whole country of Iraq. (Laugh)

Richie: In the Middle East.

Tavis: They can't agree on nothing else.

Richie: They can't agree.

Tavis: But Lionel Richie.

Richie: Even I had to stop and go well, come on. Come on, now, I'm a big fan of Lionel Richie's, but that's a little bit over the top. (Laugh) But it becomes almost surreal that we're talking about Protestants and Catholics. We're talking about any kind of religion, any kind of politics that does not go together. You want the greatest barbershop argument in the world? Politics and religion. All of a sudden, you get around, when did you get married? I got married, what'd you get married on, truly? 'Endless Love.' In any language around the world, that's unbelievable.

Tavis: I got 30 seconds here, a minute, actually. You are so fascinating to talk to; I've only mentioned 'Coming Home' one time. (Laugh) You better tell me something real fast, so we can sell some records, here.

Richie: Well, I'll tell you what it is. It's very simple. The wonderful thing about this is of all the places I've been in my life, country, calypso; the one place I haven't been in a very, very long time is R&B. And so we decided this time, let's go back to R&B. Straight down R&B lane, where the Commodores started. And we mixed the pop in between. So I got Dallas Austin, Germaine Dupree, Stargate.

I don't wanna forget somebody. Sean Garrett, Chucky Booker. And decided to write with these wonderful people, put together an album that has an R&B bottom, pop top, put the Lionel Richie record out that (unintelligible). 'Coming Home' is Lionel Richie coming home to R&B, Lionel Richie coming home to America, Lionel Richie coming back to the roots of where he started. And it's just a fantastic collaboration.

Tavis: It is indeed, and Lionel Richie can be coming home with you (laugh) if you stop by your local record store right about now and pick up the new project. I am always honored to see you, man.

Richie: Thank you very much, man.

Tavis: These conversations are just so...

Richie: Well, we should do it more.

Tavis: What you doing tomorrow night?

Richie: You know what? I'll be hanging with you tomorrow night. I'm telling you, we got it. (Laugh) We got it going on.

Tavis: I love you, Lionel, good to see you.

Richie: Hey, great to see you, man.

Tavis: That's our show for tonight. Catch me on the weekends on PRI, Public Radio International. Check your local listings. See you back here next time on PBS. Until then, good night from L.A. Thanks for watching, and as always, keep the faith.