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• Newsweek article by Ms. Goldwater
• Q & A with Ms. Goldwater
• Mr. Conservative: Goldwater on Goldwater
• Article on Ms. Goldwater

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Tavis: I spoke with CC Goldwater last week, shortly after the premiere of her film. CC Goldwater has a very personal connection to her latest project. She is the granddaughter of conservative patriarch Barry Goldwater, the subject of her new acclaimed film, 'Mr. Conservative.' The movie premiered earlier this week on HBO, but will be seen a number of times over the course of the next few weeks. Here now, a scene from 'Mr. Conservative, Goldwater on Goldwater.'

Tavis: (Laugh) Gotta love James Carville. CC Goldwater joins us tonight from New York. CC, nice to have you on the program.

CC Goldwater: Thank you. Thank you so much, Tavis.

Tavis: that was John Dean at the top of that piece, who we've had on this show any number of times. He lives here in L.A. now. Of course we know him from Watergate fame, or infamous, of course, in one regard, from Watergate. But it was Jean Dean saying that the movement has moved on, but he does not believe that your grandfather would be happy with the direction the movement has moved in. You agree with that?

Goldwater: Without a doubt. I think where we are right now, the conservative movement has completely changed 160 degrees from what Barry Goldwater's original conservative message was back in the sixties, seventies, and eighties, even. And I think it's been overshadowed by this very religious right, and just a whole step in the wrong direction. I don't think Barry would even recognize his party, so to speak.

Tavis: Aside from being the granddaughter, tell me how you came to do this project. As I mentioned, it's received all kind of acclaim, but as I also mentioned earlier, you were just a kid when your grandfather ran for President. So tell me how you came to do the project.

Goldwater: Well, I started the project, originally it was gonna be a narrative and I started with a friend of mine named Tani Cohen, who's a seasoned, independent film producer in L.A. And she and I got together and started going down that road. And then we kind of turned directions and were able to get it. It seemed like it would be better off as a documentary, 'cause we had just a plethora of vintage old family photographs and old 16-millimeter film.

And so we went to HBO, pitched the idea. HBO was at first a little hesitant, 'cause HBO and Barry Goldwater didn't make sense. But then we came back to them with a promo, showing the magnitude and the wonderfulness of the man, and they immediately got us lined up with a fabulous director named Julie Anderson who we immediately hit the ground running in D.C., and started interviewing, like, two days after she came on board.

So, I just think I was able to surround myself with some really brilliant people with HBO, and Julie and Tani. And that's the way it got started. But I think what made the film so unique is that we did have some fantastic family views from the old 16 millimeter cans of film that we found on the floor in my Uncle Mike's house, to photos in photo albums that had been filed away years and years ago.

Tavis: Most good political science majors, like yours truly, know that your grandfather's seminal text was a book called 'Conscience Of A Conservative.' You can't be well studied and not have come across that book somewhere in your readings. But you can get some of this answer by reading that text. But since we don't have time to read the book on the air tonight, (laugh) how did your grandfather come by being a conservative? Why Barry Goldwater as a conservative, as opposed to something else?

Goldwater: Because I think that the west - and Arizona, before he was a Republican in Arizona, Arizona was a Democratic state. Obviously, you know that from your studies. So it was very unusual for him to decide to run a Republican ticket, but he had this very revolutionary, conservative way of thinking. It was speak your mind, speak your piece, be honest, uphold the Constitution.

Keep government out of our personal lives. I think that he had something that was unique and different, and that was what he felt like offering. And he also saw where the Republican party was in a hole, and there was a conservative movement that was on the east coast, and he was completely different. So he offered something to Americans that was very cutting edge and different. And I think that that's what made him a unique person, and somebody historical.

Tavis: Speaking of history, Barry Goldwater is a Republican at the time, JFK, of course, a Democrat at the time. One of the most fascinating pieces in this documentary tells of the conversation of the plan, really, that Goldwater and Kennedy kind of hatched together, and what they wanted to do. I'll stop there and let you pick up the story.

Goldwater: Well, they were really good friends, because they were both senators on the hill together. And they had gone and fought the battles in the Senate, in the Rotunda, and they fought for certain bills. And they became friends; they became buddies. They were both really striking, good-looking guys, they were charismatic, they had a friendship. And what their thought was, if my grandfather was gonna run against JFK, they were gonna share a plane, they were gonna get off the plane, and JFK would make his speech and then Barry would make his speech, and then they'd get back on the plane and go to another city.

And it would have really been an incredibly dynamic way of politicking these days, and it's something that is not around. And it was a unique idea for them, and they would have done it, because they were that good of friend. And then obviously, what happened when he was assassinated, it just led to that was not gonna happen. There was no way that my grandfather was gonna get on the plane with Lyndon and go campaigning. (Laugh)

Tavis: Yeah. But it's a fascinating notion, because I can't imagine now that Bush and Kerry would have been on a plane together, and gave people around the country an opportunity to see them together, in person, going at it one on one in a respectful way. I can't even imagine that in politics as we know it today.

Goldwater: Well, politicians nowadays barely even wanna debate each other, 'cause they're so afraid that they won't have the right spin for an answer if they're put on the spot. What I think Jack and Barry were so open with was the fact that they wanted to be put on the spot. They wanted people to test them in every way. And so they weren't concerned about that. They wanted to go in and show the general public and their constituents what they might have as a potential President.

Tavis: There's an interesting dichotomy here, or perhaps a better word would be disconnect, with regard to your grandfather that maybe you can help me understand. During his era, Dr. King, and there's a great clip in the film, and I appreciate you for your honesty in showing the full context of your grandfather, because you didn't have to put this in. But it would not have been historically accurate for you not to, so thank you for doing it.

That said, there's a clip in the documentary where we see King, that is MLK, Dr. King, telling people to not vote for Barry Goldwater. Do not vote for Barry Goldwater, says Dr. King. And Dr. King took that position because your grandfather -

Goldwater: It would be a travesty.

Tavis: It'd be a travesty, in fact. That's the exact quote, exactly. So King is opposed to Black folk and others voting for your father, so your father had issues with the Civil Rights movement, or certainly legislation, and yet - here's the disconnect for me - but later in life he ends up supporting, very publicly, gay rights. Explain those two divergent positions.

Goldwater: Well, my grandfather was not against the whole Civil Rights bill. It was not the whole bill he was against. He was against a part of the bill, which was a public accommodations clause. He was against that particular one issue in the bill. So basically, you can pull that out and have the bill. Otherwise, he would have voted for it. Because he felt that it was unconstitutional. He felt that it was against our freedoms of expressing our own ability to speak openly and be able to - it was just something he didn't believe was Constitutional.

But my grandfather was the farthest thing from a bigot. He desegregated the Air National Guard in Arizona before Harry Truman did nationally. He desegregated his department stores in Arizona way before a lot of states ever did that. He was far from that. He was a big proponent to Native American people. So there was a real disconnect. You're right about that. There was a real disconnect on his persona, but that was magnification by Johnson and his crew being able to take what he did and say, let's make him a bigot, let's make him this.

And the Reverend King was obviously right on with saying that. But as you see with the other comments, he wasn't a bigot and they didn't think he was a racist. It's just that by voting the whole thing out, he made his party wrong. And that was correct.

Tavis: I got a few seconds left. Let me ask you right quick, though, later in his life, whether or not, though, he came to regret that decision, or if not the decision, regret how he was portrayed because of his decision.

Goldwater: I think that he didn't regret his decision, 'cause he was a man that always stood by everything he did. But I think that he would have liked to have been able to explain a little bit more clearer, and had maybe people listen to why he voted that way.

Tavis: And let me ask you right quick, then, why he later in life publicly supported gay rights.

Goldwater: Well, he had a lot of influence. My brother is a homosexual; my cousin is a homosexual. He had some influence in terms of understanding what homosexuality is, and if a guy wants to go and fight and go to Iraq right now and get shot at and he's gay, who are we to judge?

Tavis: He is a complex and fascinating American icon, and the documentary is very well done. It's called 'Mr. Conservative, Goldwater On Goldwater.' Check your listings for when you can catch it on HBO.

Goldwater: It's on HBO.

Tavis: Exactly. CC Goldwater, nice to have you on. Thanks for your time.

Goldwater: Thank you.