E-mail a friendDavid Kuo
airdate October 16, 2006
David Kuo is Washington editor of the Beliefnet Web site. He's a former assistant to President Bush and number 2 official in the faith-based initiatives office. In his new book, Tempting Faith, he portrays the White House commitment to evangelical causes as a facade to win votes. Kuo has worked for diverse political leaders and founded The American Compass, a nonprofit organization that funds social service programs. He was also Senior VP with Value America, the subject of his book, Dot.Bomb.
David Kuo
Tavis: David Kuo is a conservative Christian who served in the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives. His much talked about new book is an eye-opening examination of the relationship between the Bush administration and religious conservatives. The book is in stores today. It's called 'Tempting Faith, An Inside Story of Political Seduction.' David Kuo joins us tonight from New York. David, nice to have you on the program.
David Kuo: Hey, it's great to be here.
Tavis: Everyone who has taken - the book just comes out today. We, of course, saw you on '60 Minutes' last night. Everyone who has seen the book or heard about the book who has a critical critique of you uses the same word. Naïve. That for whatever reasons, you were naïve of how the process works. How do you respond, first of all, to the allegation that you have a level of naiveté that's too high?
Kuo: I am an optimist. I have hope. But I've been involved in politics for a long time. I worked with John Ashcroft; I worked with Jack Kemp and Bill Bennett; I've worked with Ralph Reed. Tavis, I worked at the CIA. I can be accused of being a lot of things. I am really not naïve. But I do hope, I do believe, and I believe in keeping promises. And so if being naïve means keeping a promise, well I guess then, you can call me naïve.
Tavis: So what promises did Mr. Bush and Mr. Rove and others inside the White House make that you believe that you were let down with regard to?
Kuo: In the first policy speech of his campaign in 2000, Governor Bush gave one of the most amazing social policy speeches of the last generation, right? This governor from Texas said, 'I am going to spend eight billion dollars in new money every year to help the poor.' All right? He said, 'I am not some Republican who says that it can be done just by private charities. I'm not some liberal who said it's all about money. But I'm gonna chart a new way to care for the poor.'
And he said something along the lines of the poor's hurting is the calling of our time. I look at that and I go this is a guy, an amazing guy, and the guy who I met in his office in Austin who said I care about economic, racial, and social justice. And for me, that's talking pretty to me. That's the stuff that I care about. And so he made this promise as a different kind of Republican. And for me, that's a big deal. That's a big promise.
Tavis: And instead of those eight billion dollars that were promised, what was actually realized?
Kuo: Well, let's see. The first year, nothing. The second year, 30 million, the fourth year, about 40 million. And again, I'm not saying that that's nothing, but considering eight billion dollars is spent on the salmon in the northwest, getting $60 million to the poor in the first three years, I don't see that as the fulfilling of a promise. It's less than one percent of the first year of the promise.
And listen, I know there are a lot of different things that happened, all right? Nine-eleven happens, there are all sots of different demands. But you know what? I was there before 9/11, right? One of the things I talked about in the book is that this trend with the Bush administration of big announcements and little, itty-bitty follow up wasn't something that was born after 9/11.
Tavis: The bombshell of this book for many, indeed for yours truly, is not what you've just said, with all due respect. There's nothing there that we didn't know that any good political reporter couldn't tell you. That the Bush administration said X and did Y on issues relative to the poor. No breaking news there, with all due respect to the book, 'Tempting Faith.'
What got my attention, and the attention of so many others, obviously, is how little regard the Bush administration, according to you, has or had for its key, critical, Christian conservative base. You say in the book that the administration inside the White House really is dismissive of Christian evangelicals. That they refer to them as boorish; they refer to them as nuts. They refer to them as goofy. They refer to them as out of control.
These are all in quotes; things that you've heard and witnessed in meetings with regard to how the White House views or doesn't view, as it were, its critical conservative Christian base. I assume you stand by all of this.
Kuo: Oh, absolutely. And this is not surprising. This is not rocket science. Frankly, any honest person who has been involved in Republican politics will confirm this story. Will say the same thing. And that's why this book is a book about seduction. It's a book about how Christians have been seduced into politics. Seduced into thinking that somehow politics is the answer, and it is also, I hope, an eye-opener for them, because they need to understand that politicians are starved for their votes. Starved for their votes.
But they don't care about them as people. They'll say anything that they can to get their votes. Because they think, frankly, that they're easy to manipulate. And that's important for people to know, because it's not that - you've got the Christian political leaders who are the mouthpieces of the White House, and who go and talk to the really, really well-meaning. The moms and the dads, the grandmas who give 15, 20, 25, 50 bucks.
Because they think they're really supporting godly activities, and that's their goal. I saw tonight that the RNC has raised $200 million in this campaign. Right, but they're doing it with a false promise. They're doing it by presenting this picture of President Bush as sort of pastor-in-chief. And Christians need to look at him and say, "No," right? He's the president. We need to look at him through critical eyes. The same critical eyes and cold, political eyes with which the White House looks at us.
Tavis: To the point you've just made now, let me ask you, David, whether or not you think, then, to borrow a phrase, that these Christian evangelicals have been bamboozled, hoodwinked, run amok, and led astray by the White House. Let me ask you that question against the backdrop of a piece, I wanna read an excerpt right quick, that's made all kind of news the last couple of days.
That Frank Rich wrote yesterday in the 'New York Times.' Here's a gay Republican story you probably did not hear last week. On Tuesday, a card-carrying homosexual, Mark Dybul, was sworn into office at the State Department with his partner holding the bible. The Dr. Dybul, the administration's new global AIDS coordinator, was flanked by Laura Bush and Condi Rice.
In her official remarks, the Secretary of State referred to the mother of Dr. Dybul's partner as mother-in-law. Rich goes on to say, you can actually see all of this on www.state.gov. Do you think that the evangelicals are aware that the president's wife and their Secretary of State, this party they put their faith and trust in on these critical and key issues as they see them, take kindly to what you have to say, and to what Rich has broken in the 'New York Times?'
Kuo: No, I'm now public enemy number one. I saw some Christian guy refer to me now as a member of the axis of evil. (Laugh) Which is remarkable, right? Because I sort of try and say okay, let's look at this objectively. And the Dybul example is a very interesting example. Because one part of the administration tries to pander the religious conservatives, and the other part, out of the other part of the administration, it's referring to a partner's mom as mother-in-law.
Tavis: So have they been bamboozled, run amok, and led astray?
Kuo: Absolutely, yeah. The answer is absolutely. And Tavis, one of the things I wanna say about my book, and try and make clear, is this is an intensely personal political and spiritual memoir. This is a deeply personal book about my own experience. About finding God, right? About growing up in a home where my mom, who is a descendent of Jefferson Davis, worked on an interracial Christian commune in the 1950s. I grew up with the passion in my heart for the poor and for civil rights.
Tavis: But you have to know that you're dropping political bombshells in this book.
Kuo: Right, but that's part of the journey that I try and tell here, and I try and outline here, is this nexus between God and politics. And the struggle between the two. And this idea that is growing deeper and deeper that somehow politics is the answer to everything, and this is especially true of Christians. I can tell you the Christian conservative media is the least interested in talking to me. They'll put on anyone they want from the administration, but no one wants to put me on, right?
Tavis: So let me ask you then in 30 seconds right quick how we solve the problem of this intersection that has run amok between faith and politics.
Kuo: Tavis, I have, maybe it's a radical idea, right? Outline it in the book. I say I believe that Christians need to take a fast from politics for two years. You don't fast from something because it's bad. You fast to focus on the spiritual. I think that right now, Jesus is so misidentified with a Republican political agenda, and I really think that the evangelical Christians in particular need to take this step back.
And for two years, instead of giving $200 million to the RNC, let's give it to those charities that the Bush administration was supposed to be supporting. Let's spend more time with our families. Let's mentor more. Let's love more. All right? Because what is it that Jesus told us to do? He didn't tell us to go out and court precinct captains. He didn't tell us to fight for abortion or against abortion, nor for or against homosexuality.
He said love your neighbor. He said serve those who are in need. In that most bracing passage in Matthew. What did he say is one of the criteria for entering the kingdom of God? It's did you visit me in prison? It's hard stuff; it's bracing stuff. Politics is easy. Following God is hard. Let's try that following God thing.
Tavis: You decide whether or not David Kuo was naïve. One thing that seems certain to me, he's certainly courageous to put out a book like this, that tells his story. 'Tempting Faith, An Inside Story of Political Seduction.' The new book, soon to be, I'm certain, a bestseller by David Kuo. David Kuo, nice to have you on the program. Thanks for the text.
Kuo: Tavis, I really appreciate being here.
Tavis: It's my pleasure. That's our show for tonight. Catch me on the weekends on PRI, Public Radio International. Check your local listings. See you back here next time on PBS. Until then, good night from Los Angeles, thanks for watching, and as always, keep the faith.
Back to October 16, 2006