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Wangari Maathi says the environment should not be seen as just an "academic" or "luxury" issue.
 

Tavis: Dr. Wangari Maathai is a member of parliament in Kenya who also serves as the assistant minister of the environment. In 2004, she became the first African woman ever to win the Nobel Peace Prize. Just one of many firsts in her inspiring life. Her new book is called 'Unbowed, A Memoir.' Dr. Maathai, nice to have you on the program.

Dr. Wangari Maathai: Thank you very much.

Tavis: My first time meeting you ever, but certainly since winning the Nobel Peace Prize, so congratulations, a couple of years late.

Maathai: Thank you. Thank you very much.

Tavis: Your story is, in fact, inspiring on so many different levels. Let me start - and it's hard to know where to begin - let me start with the fact that you have distinguished yourself as a woman who has accomplished so many firsts in your country. Obviously, the first to win the Nobel Peace Prize, first African woman to ever do that. First ever to do it around the issue of the environment.

You are a member of parliament, and a minister of the cabinet. A minister, that's kind of hard to do in this country. You can't be a member of Congress and a member of the Cabinet at the same time. But in so many respects, you've distinguished yourself as a first. To what to you contribute that to?

Maathai: Well, I think in many ways, it was good luck that I was born to parents, and especially my mother, who actually decided, along with my older brother, that I should go to school. At a time when girls were not going to school. And then I did well, and I ended up continuing, and being available in 1960 to come to the United States. And that completely opened my life. So I think it was both good luck and good parents.

Tavis: When you say that you came to the United States in 1960, you went right past that. There's a wonderful story, a story that actually kind of moved me as to how you got here, and I did not know that this had even taken place until I got a chance to get into your text. Tell me how, specifically, you came to the United States in 1960.

Maathai: Well, I think it must have been 1959 is when I finished high school. And at that time, we were anticipating to become independent in 1963.

Tavis: The nation of Kenya.

Maathai: Yeah. And obviously, President Kennedy, who was at that time Senator from Massachusetts, along with other politicians such as Martin Luther King,Thurgood Marshall.

Tavis: Thurgood Marshall.

Maathai: Yeah. And people like Andrew Young, and politicians like Tom Boyer, these were talking obviously, and as you know, our countries had been colonies of European powers. And this would have been the first time that America reaches out to Africa. And I think that in his visionary way of thinking, President Kennedy decided that he wanted to reach out to Africa.

And he decided the way to help Africa was to invest in the young people, and bring them to the United States to study in college. So I found myself being one of the several hundreds who came here in 1960.

Tavis: So Senator Kennedy, while in the Senate, got behind a movement through his foundation with some other connections to get about 600 Kenyan students to come from Kenya to the U.S., so that when your independence, in fact, came through, there would be some folk who were educated who could go back and help run the country.

Maathai: Precisely.

Tavis: And that's how you go there.

Maathai: And that's how I got here. And that's why I was always motivated to actually go back and fulfill that mission.

Tavis: What made you wanna go back? And I'm fast-forwarding here, but I ask that because there are a lot of folk who come to America. We are not a perfect nation, but there are a lot of folk - by a long shot. But there are a lot of folk who come from other places around the world who get here and decide, for whatever reasons, to never, ever go back. America can be very deceptive in that regard. You get here, and you don't wanna leave. And I like this place myself. But why did you decide that you wanted to in fact go back when you didn't have to?

Maathai: Well, there are many reasons why people decide to stay in America, and definitely this is a wonderful country. It gives you a lot of opportunities. It has its own challenges, but there are also many people who decide to go back. And for me, it never occurred to me that I could stay here. My mind was always wanting to go back. And it is probably because of the politicians who were preparing us when we came to America.

Because they always said you go to America, you do your studies, but you must come back. Kenya is going to become independent, and we need you. So there was that in my mind. And I think that part of the reason why later on many people did not go back is because the hope, the aspirations, the enthusiasm that was there in the sixties was very much frustrated.

Tavis: Tell me right quick about your studies in the United States. So you get here in 1960, and you end up going to school where?

Maathai: Well, I ended up in a small college, Mount St. Scholastica College in Atchison, Kansas. And it's a twin college.

Tavis: (Laugh) I'm just laughing 'cause you went from Kenya to Kansas.

Maathai: Can you imagine? (Laugh)

Tavis: That's quite a change of pace. I'm sorry, go ahead, yeah.

Maathai: And it was very different.

Tavis: I'm sure, yeah. (Laugh) There's the understatement of the day.

Maathai: And like Kenya, which is very hilly, very green, here was Kansas. I had never seen so much wheat. (Laugh) I'd never seen so much corn. It was so different, but it was also a wonderful place to be.

Tavis: And you went to grad school.

Maathai: I went to graduate school in the University Of Pittsburgh.

Tavis: University Of Pittsburgh, right.

Maathai: And that was more like Kenya. (Laugh) In fact, it made me a little more homesick when I got to the University Of Pittsburgh, because it reminded me so much of home. The hills, the green. But it was also a wonderful experience. So by the time I stayed there two years, I was ready to go home.

Tavis: So we fast forward now, you are ultimately eventually back in your native land. How did you end up making the environment your work? And I'm really fascinated to talk to you about this, which is why I wanted to get to you. Not just because you won the Nobel Peace Prize, which is very important, but more importantly, I was impressed by the fact that you won it for your work on the environment.

And what's fascinating to me about that is here, stateside, this environmental movement that has taken hold in the States has not yet hit people of color, Black people, African Americans, in the way that your work has resonated even in a place like Kenya. So I'm really fascinated as to how this Black woman ends up making her life's work wrapped around the environment. How'd that happen for you?

Maathai: Now, one of the reasons why the environment continues to not be looked at seriously is because it is seen as a luxury issue. An academic issue, and issue for the rich, an issue for the more affluent. But when you think about it, the poor survive on the environment. For us at least, we need firewood. Most of our people still burn wood products. Food is grown on the land.

And most of us grow food directly. We don't go to the supermarket. There are none. We get water straight from the rivers. So we are very close to the environment, and it is very important for us to understand that the air we breathe, the water we drink, the food we eat, all comes directly from the soil. And if you are eating something that is not healthy, you are not going to be healthy, either.

And when people are not aware of the need to have a healthy environment, in fact, they end up living in a very sordid environment. Their environment becomes polluted, sometimes people even throw pollution in their neighborhoods, because they know that those people are not aware. So it's very, very important for people to understand the value of the environment.

Not to mention the fact that if you don't have a good environment, it destroys your social life, it destroys your economic life, and eventually, you start scrabbling for the few resources you have in your environment. And this is where the linkage between good management of your resources and your environment links with good governance, and a sense of peace.

Tavis: When you started preaching this message, so to speak, it fell on deaf ears. You couldn't get people to listen to what you were saying, so you had to go out and start your own organization to do this work. Tell me about your work in the organization.

Maathai: Well, the organization, the Green Belt Movement, started actually as a small project within the National Council of Women of Kenya. My education here in the United States really prepared me for what eventually became my work outside the mainstream, because I had to leave the university where I was teaching, I was a professor of anatomy. And then I decided that this was much more important work for me, because it was touching on peoples' lives.

And the reason why I developed the movement is because it was much easier to mobilize people, much easier to talk to people, much easier to work with the people who many people sidelined, because these are illiterates, these are people who live in the rural areas. They don't have economic power, they don't have political power. These are people you can easily ignore.

But nevertheless, if they destroy the land on which they live, if they destroy the forests, if they destroy the rivers, if the soil they cultivate is exposed and taken away by wind or by water, eventually, the country becomes impoverished, and we have a lot of countries that are destroyed by the poor, while the rich are seated at the top, and they're not making the linkage and knowing that what the poor are doing at the bottom will eventually catch up with them at the top.

Tavis: Fast-forward one more time here. Now you happen to be a Nobel laureate. You are a member of parliament. You are part of the ministry in the environment department. Tell me how your work has changed over the years. You started down here with everyday people when they wouldn't listen to you. Now you are celebrated all over the world, and your work now does, in fact, connect those poor peoples' concerns with the higher upper echelons of government. So tell me about your work today.

Maathai: And that is really where the importance now is. I'm so happy that now the governments are listening. Now institutions of governance are listening. International organizations are listening. Corporations are listening. And they are seeing the importance of this work. So now, I am in this very privileged position where I can participate in the parliaments in making laws that will make sure that we protect our environment.

And making laws that will ensure that those whom we put in charge of our environment, of our resources, will manage them responsibly and accountably, and will make sure that these resources are shared more equitably, in order to preempt conflict. So whether the conflict is in a local situation, such as sometimes we have tribes fighting over water or grazing ground, or whether we are dealing with more serious conflicts such as we have in the Sudan, or they are even bigger, it is very, very important - and this is really the message from the Nobel committee - it is very important to for us to see the linkage between the conflicts, and the way we manage the resources.

That's where I am now focusing, and I'm working closely with the African Union, and with governments not only in Africa, but in other parts of the world, to try to make this message become crystal clear, so that we can have policies at all levels of government that embrace this new expanded concept of peace and security.

Tavis: Finally, speaking of the Nobel committee, I'm just curious. How has your life changed, personally, professionally, over the last couple of years. When you get the Nobel Peace Prize, it doesn't come any bigger than that. how has your life been impacted by being a Nobel laureate? The first African woman to be so honored?

Maathai: Well, that gift is a gift like no other gift, as you say. It is really bigger than life. And you can use it, you can exploit the many opportunities that come for the common good of the mission that you are trying to promote. It also comes with challenges, because I have to travel a lot, and I have to share this with all the many constituencies that feel that they are touched by this prize.

People like women, people who work on human rights issues, people who work on peace movements, and people who work on rights of all types. And of course, people who are in the environmental movement. They all want me to go celebrate with them, see their work, encourage them. And that creates a lot of challenge. People think that when you become a Nobel Peace laureate, you know everything. (Laugh) So they want you to answer every question about anything on this planet.

Tavis: Well, I don't know if she knows everything, but she knows a lot. And she put a lot of it in this book called 'Unbowed, A Memoir,' by Professor Wangari Maathai, the winner of the Nobel Peace Prize. It's a wonderful read I'm sure you'll enjoy. But more importantly than - not more importantly, but as important as her work, the story of how she got to where she is, to do what it is she's doing, you'll be empowered by. Professor, an honor to meet you.

Maathai: Thank you very much. It's great to be here.

Tavis: Glad to have you here.

Maathai: Thank you for having me.

Tavis: It's my pleasure. That's our show for tonight. Catch me on the weekends on PRI, Public Radio International. Check your local listings. See you back here next time on PBS. Until then, good night from L.A., thanks for watching, and as always, keep the faith.