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Tavis: Dr. Nancy Snow is a senior research fellow at USC's Center on Public Diplomacy, and an associate professor at Cal State, Fullerton. She's also served as an advisor to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on post-9/11 diplomacy. Her latest book is called 'The Arrogance of American Power: What U. S. Leaders Are Doing Wrong and Why It's Our Duty to Dissent.' Dr. Snow, nice to have you on.

Dr. Nancy Snow: Thank you, Tavis.

Tavis: This title gives me, the title and the subtitle give me so much to work with, I don't know where to start, I'm so excited about (laugh) the opportunity to, to masticate on this. Let me start, though, with what I just suggested a moment ago, this phrase post-9/11 diplomacy. There are some watching, no doubt, right now, who would argue that there is no such thing as post-9/11 diplomacy.

Snow: Well, you have to think before post-9/11 diplomacy, we had the post-Cold War era. And when I worked at the State Department and the U.S. Information Agency, our mission and our policies were defined by a label. We don't really have any other better label than the post-9/11 era. I think it, it's often, of course, somewhat misleading, because we tend to then relate diplomacy to the war on terror.

And this is something that I cover in my book, which is a problem for us as a country. When you relate it to terror, and you look at the war on terror as really damaging U.S. credibility in the world, it hinders our efforts to really create positive public diplomacy efforts.

Tavis: Beyond relating diplomacy to 9/11 or a post-9/11 strategy, beyond that, what I was getting at was this notion that there are some folk who don't think that the powers that be in Washington have ever heard of the word diplomacy, much less know how to enact it.

Snow: Well, that, that is also a problem, because this is why I titled the book, 'The Arrogance of American Power.' It's actually a play on Senator Fulbright's book, 'The Arrogance of Power.' And I knew Senator Fulbright in Washington. And of course, he was the visionary behind the Fulbright exchange program. And he said about that program that it's an effort, really, to allow people to better understand each other.

What they called mutual understanding, and to put more emphasis on what we as a nation have to learn from other countries. That it's not always about us. And I think that's what you're getting at with the problem with the inside the Beltway mentality, which tends to be very self-centered, self-interested, driven by national security, driven by military concerns. And this has led to some of our engagement problems with the world, specifically in Iraq.

Tavis: I'm glad you raised that, because as I mentioned a moment ago, in a matter of hours, this Iraq Study Group report will be made public, whatever's left of it, since I've been reading parts of it in the paper every day for the last two weeks. (Laugh) Officially, the report will be out in a matter of hours. That said, as I see public diplomacy, you're the expert, and you tell me if I'm right or wrong.

As I understand, as I see public diplomacy, it is how Americans describe and talk about and share America to the rest of the world. If, in fact, that's what public diplomacy is, once this report is done, we're gonna have to start a new round of doing that. We're gonna make some changes in Iraq somewhere, and we're gonna have to, as Americans, try to talk about America in a different way to the world.

How do you do that effectively when the guy who just - I'm not trying to cast aspersion on him, but when the guy who happens to be president right now represents in so many ways everything that people around the world who don't like America don't like about America. He represents all of that, so how does he become the face of public diplomacy in an effective sort of way?

Snow: Well, he becomes the face of public diplomacy because so many have put that emphasis on President Bush. And actually, public diplomacy, we need to put the public back into public diplomacy, and not concentrate so much on President Bush or Dr. Rice at the State Department, or even Karen Hughes, who is the public diplomacy czar. There are different approaches to public diplomacy.

One is a second track effort, which is to emphasize more people to people exchanges. I happen to know you do a lot of traveling internationally, and I'm sure you're confronted with U.S. foreign policy objectives in your face, where people wanna talk to you immediately, either about President Bush or our foreign policy problems. And we need to widen the dialogue, and really get more people involved. USIA's motto was telling America's story to the world, and when I worked there, I said, 'That's too narrow.'

We really have stories. We have thousands and thousands of such stories. We have Sister Cities International. I mentioned the Fulbright program. They're not really involved. The exchange scholars and international exchange students aren't really involved in this dialogue, because we've kept our foreign policy dialogue up here, at rather an elite level. And we haven't really brought it out into the Midwest and the south and the west and all over this country, to show a picture of America that is driven by diverse points of view. Not just diversity in terms of race and ethnicity, but also in dissenting points of view. I think that's the best advertising for this country.

Tavis: But to your point now, to your analogy suggesting that I do travel a lot, and I think a lot of us do. I certainly have over the years, and like eight or 10 countries just this summer. And you're right; I got asked that question, as if I'm Condi Rice. (Laugh) I got asked that question everywhere I went. Iraq comes up in every conversation in every country you travel to.

What they don't get, though, is how I and others can say we're opposed to this, we don't agree with what our government is doing, and yet they saw us elect this guy, not once, but twice. Now, certainly weeks ago, the American public sent a different signal to President Bush, and maybe now people are starting to think that all of us aren't completely stuck on stupid, that there is some dissent in this country.

But I guess the question is, how do you explain to people this notion of dissent around the world, when they see that we've elected a guy, twice, who is pushing an agenda that they think is antithetical to the best interests of the world community?

Snow: I think the only way you can do that is keep doing this sort of three-feet-apart type dialogue. Keep traveling, bring more exchange students here. I'm a big advocate for what I call a Marshall plan for exchanges. Then instead of putting so much emphasis on Al Hura and Radio Sawa, these 24-hour broadcasting efforts of the U.S. government, which frankly are government propaganda efforts, they really kind of leave people wanting.

The fact that you're put on the spot, and you sort of act as the ersatz Dr. Rice is because people are really yearning for a different perspective, and they won't get that from over the airwaves. They won't get that from a presidential speech. They can only get that in communication back and forth. That also has an advantage in that it projects an attitude of listening.

I've often said with public diplomacy, we need to have it be more ear-driven and less mouth-driven. There's a reason why there's a two-to-one ratio of ears to mouth. And we haven't been seen as active listeners. Now you've got Bush meeting with everybody, it looks like. And it sort of comes across as if it's a desperation move. As if it's sort of fourth and long on the football field, and we're going for broke here 'cause we've run out of options.

But we really need to communication differently, and I'm glad that you said that there are opportunities to change the direction. With the Iraq Study Group report, that offers an opportunity to take a different tack, to show a new initiative of caring and listening and communicating more effectively.

Tavis: Let me ask you, then, you your area of expertise, when this study group report comes out, when the president has a chance to delve into it and to review it, and then speak to the country and indeed the world about how we're going to do things differently, whatever that means, what's the most important thing? What ought he focus on with regard to a new kind of diplomacy for the world on this mess in Iraq?

Snow: I think a diplomacy that is less driven by public relations and self-interested objectives, and more of a diplomacy that builds on creating bridges of understanding, and acknowledging, frankly, as one of his own officials did, Fernandez, just a few weeks ago, that we have made missteps. Acknowledge our mistakes. I think that that actually can go a long way. It helps to build credibility when you acknowledge that we're not 100 percent perfect here as a country. We may be a super power, but we can also show a humility.

Tavis: But Dr. Snow, that's almost nonexistent in public policy and American discourse.

Snow: But what about this new book from President Carter that's just coming out? He's trying to move a dialogue on the Israeli-Palestinian issue, and of course he's been criticized. He has a lot of people who've said, 'Don't go there.' But I think that that's really courageous, and we need more writers. Frankly, as an ex-president, he automatically will be given more credibility.

But it is difficult, because I think a lot of our public officials frankly are again, they're insulated. There's something about that inside the Beltway mentality. I lived there nine years. It's not just a physical freeway around Washington. It also signifies a certain mentality, and that is to avoid risk taking. To tend to protect your own. What we used to call the USIA and the State Department, cover your behind, to put it mildly.

But it was always about protecting yourself, and protecting your appropriations. People were very frustrated with the lack of creative options, but the bureaucracy doesn't allow for those creative options. So what I'm suggesting, Tavis, is that we need to take it outside the Beltway. And you can really only do that through engaging the American people. This Iraq Study Group report isn't just about finding a new way in Iraq. It's about finding a new foreign policy that reflects the point of view of the public.

Which is now two-thirds against the war in Iraq, and want something done.

Tavis: I got just 10 seconds here. Do you ever get to a point where it's too late to engage public diplomacy?

Snow: Never, because that's the lifeblood of what I do. (Laugh) It's really not something that I just write about; I really try to reflect it in my own life.

Tavis: Dr. Nancy Snow's latest book is 'The Arrogance of American Power: What U.S. Leaders Are Doing Wrong, and Why It's Our Duty to Dissent.' Dr. Snow, nice to have you on the program.

Snow: Thank you, Tavis.

Tavis: It's my pleasure. Up next on this program, Oscar-winning producer and director Irwin Winkler. Stay with us.