E-mail a friendIrwin Winkler
airdate December 5, 2006
Fresh out of NYU, filmmaker Irwin Winkler went to work as a messenger at the William Morris Agency. He's since enjoyed a long and successful career as a producer-director. His films have received 12 Academy Awards from 45 nominations, including 4 for Best Picture. He received an Oscar for Rocky and earned nods for Raging Bull, The Right Stuff and Goodfellas. He has two new films: Home of the Brave, the first major feature to explore the homecoming of U.S. troops from Iraq, and a new Rocky installment.
Irwin Winkler
Tavis: I'm pleased to welcome Irwin Winkler to this program. His terrific career as producer and director includes seminal films like 'Rocky,' 'Raging Bull,' 'The Right Stuff,' and 'Goodfellas.' He's got a busy holiday season coming up, with two major films including the latest in the 'Rocky' series. But first up, 'Home of the Brave,' with Samuel L. Jackson. The movie opens in New York and L.A. on December fifteenth. Here now are scenes from 'Home of the Brave.'
Tavis: Mr. Winkler, nice to have you on the program, sir.
Irwin Winkler: Nice to be here, thank you.
Tavis: As I look at that trailer, it occurs to me that here's a movie that deals with the lives of three soldiers trying to readjust to everyday life after a tour of duty on Iraq, and yet this thing in Iraq, whatever you wanna call it, I'm afraid to say, (laugh) civil war, uprising, sectarian violence, whatever you call it. This thing in Iraq...
Winkler: All of the above, yeah.
Tavis: All of the above, and then some. This thing in Iraq is still ongoing. So as a producer, how do you know a movie like this can or will work, Samuel L. Jackson notwithstanding, when the conflict that this movie is wrapped around is still ongoing?
Winkler: Well, interestingly enough, when I started working on the script, I thought the war would be well over by the time the film came out.
Tavis: So did George Bush.
Winkler: Yeah, so unfortunately, it's still on. But I think with communications the way they are, I think knowing that the soldiers are being sent over and coming back constantly, the problem is one that I think we're all, or we all should be made aware of. And it's a very heartfelt story about how these veterans and both men and women adjust to civilian life.
Tavis: Is there ever a concern, back to your point, when you started writing this, you thought the war would be over, ever a concern that a film like this might be controversial, given the timing of its release? And I ask that because after 9/11, there were a number of films that were in the work, they got pushed back because people thought it was too soon to put them out there.
Winkler: It might be. It might be, I don't know. But yes, it is controversial. But what we try to deal with is really the plight of the soldier, and it's very pro-soldier. And interestingly enough, during the Vietnam War, when soldiers came back, they were really not respected and not treated very well. One of the inspirations for me to do this story was I was at an airport, and I saw a group of soldiers coming off a plane wearing combat uniforms.
And most of the people in the airport applauded them. And I said to myself, 'I wonder what happens to these same people when the applause stops, when the parties for them are over? How do they then reunite with their families and with their jobs and their friends?' So the soldiers are being treated in a special way. Even though people are obviously against the war, they're not against the soldiers. And I think that's a significant aspect of it.
Tavis: And that goes back to that clip that we saw of Samuel Jackson asking why.
Winkler: Are you against the war, or are you against the fact that I fought in the war?
Tavis: Precisely. So it's a provocative question. To that point, how does one do a movie like this, and keep one's personal politics out of the script? Or is that not something you attempted to do?
Winkler: Well, my personal politics are that war is a terrible thing. I don't think the film takes a position as far as the war, whether it was right or wrong to fight the war. My position and the film's position is that all wars cause great damage. That they harm, people get killed, people's lives are affected by it, usually not in a very positive way. So that's my politics in the film. War is not good. And I don't think anybody'll argue with that, really.
Tavis: To that point, one question about your politics, and we'll move on. What's your sense, though, now that this movie is about to be released, the war is not over, as you thought it would be when you first started. What's your sense of this ongoing conflict, because it is obviously the topic of today?
Winkler: I think ultimately it's gotta be resolved. I don't think I know or can give you any kind of suggestion about how it will resolve. I think ultimately, America has to find a way to make Iraq a viable country, which it is not now. If it's gonna take keeping some of our troops there longer, hopefully they'll not be in harm's way. But I don't know what we do otherwise.
I think Colin Powell said it. 'If you break it, you own it.' And we certainly broke it. And I think we have an obligation to the people of Iraq, whatever their religious convictions are, to find a way to help them towards some peaceful resolution to this.
Tavis: The only person who might be as hard working as a soldier in Iraq is Samuel L. Jackson. (Laugh) Is it just me, or is Samuel in a movie, like, every other month?
Winkler: Well, no, the last movie he was in (laugh) came out in August, so.
Tavis: Yeah, well, okay.
Winkler: It's been about four months this time. (Laugh)
Tavis: Four months, okay. (Laugh) Excuse me, four months, yeah.
Winkler: But I'll tell you, he is such a pro. He shows up on - the first scene he did in the film is the scene he does with Jessica Biel where she's wounded and he's a medic, he's a doctor in the field. And I started to discuss with him how a doctor in the field will operate on somebody who is wounded in combat. And before I could get two words out, he knew it all.
He had done his research, he knew exactly what to do, and he was the easiest - I think I've made oh, maybe 40 films in my career, maybe more. I never met an actor that was so thoroughly prepared and ready to go and knew exactly what he had to do, and he's always on time, and get him out there, get him to do it, and keep moving.
Tavis: What's amazing about that is he shows up prepared, and he, like, lives his life on the golf course.
Winkler: That's true.
Tavis: So when he does this, I do not know. (Laugh)
Winkler: But actually, we had a prior relationship. He was in 'Goodfellas' back 20 years ago, had a small part when he was just kind of really starting out. So we, we went back a bit.
Tavis: So, what do you do, what do you do, how do you feel, when you're at home on any given night? I assume you watch TV every now and then. You're at home on any given night, flipping channels, and you happen to cross four or five movies at any one time on any one night that you produced and/or directed? That makes you feel what?
Winkler: I feel strange, because usually when I finish a film, I don't look at it again. Years will go by, and I had to, actually, on 'Goodfellas,' I was surfing the channels and all of a sudden, something looked familiar. And I said, 'I know that one.' And I started watching it, and I thought that was a pretty good movie. And often, I'm either embarrassed by the movie 20 years later, or look at it and say we could have done it better, or that scene isn't as good. But some of them work. 'Goodfellas' was one of the few that worked years later.
Tavis: That's an understatement. (Laugh) I watch it every other night, it seems, on some channel. To that point, though, is there a danger? On the one hand, every time something plays, your expertise is being seen. I wonder, though, sometimes, whether or not there's a danger in taking movies that are classics, or certainly on their way to becoming classics, and running them so much. There are certain films that literally you can see almost every night on somebody's channel. Is that a good thing, or a bad thing?
Winkler: Well, it's a good thing financially, obviously. And the studios, we don't have control of that, usually. The studios just kind of sell them and grind them out. It's good, because you hope that people aren't overexposed to them, and they could always change the channel and put on some other Irwin Winkler film. (Laugh)
Tavis: But how can you not be overexposed if you see 'Goodfellas,' which I love, or even 'Coming to America,' which I love, a comedy. Every night, these films are on something. So how can a movie not be overexposed?
Winkler: Well, because you can turn it off, basically, which a lot of people do, and you go to another channel. There are so many channels available, so many sources of entertainment available, so you can get by without watching the same film over and over again. And I think most people don't.
Tavis: This is an impossible question, because I know there is no blueprint, there's no game plan, there's no guide book, there's no one size fits all. But how does one become a producer? It seems like this amorphous kind of thing, and nobody can really tell you how to do it. But if you do it, and you do it well, you can make a pretty good living at this thing.
Winkler: Yeah, you can make a good living. You know what, there is no secret to it. I think some of it is a lot of hard work and a lot of luck, and luck cannot be discounted. It's really a very important aspect. If I had to tell somebody what the basis of, I think, learn how to read. Basically, you have to know what a good literary piece of material is, what a good script looks like, what a good character is.
And it's very basic kind of stuff. And then you've gotta have a lot of guts, because you're gonna get turned down a lot. And you gotta hang in there. I guess it's true of anything any of us do in the entertainment business. It's a tough road. It pays well when it works, and there are terrible disappointments, and there are wonderful highs in it.
Tavis: So in a movie theater the other day, prepared to see something, and across the screen comes this name, Irwin Winkler. And I hear this movie, I hear this soundtrack, and I'm thinking oh my God, 'Rocky' is back. So we've got, is this number six now?
Winkler: Yeah, this is the sixth one.
Tavis: What makes you wanna do another 'Rocky?'
Winkler: Well, I tell you, we didn't wanna do it for many, many years. Sly always kept saying, 'We should do another one, and we should (unintelligible).'
Tavis: And Sly is like what, 100 now?
Winkler: Sixty. (Laugh)
Tavis: Sixty, okay. (Laugh)
Winkler: He's not quite 100. (Laugh) And what happened, he came up finally, he wrote a terrific screenplay. And we liked it so much we said, 'Okay, yeah, let's do this one.' And it really, really works. It's about a man who still has, although he's 60, still has some guts left, and still has something to give. And in a way, it has all the feeling of the original 'Rocky.'
Tavis: But I suspect though - we just had on this program the other night the head of the AARP, and you now qualify when you're 50 these days - I assume we live in a world now, though, where a movie like that certainly has a chance of resonating, 'cause people are living older, and wanna live stronger lives. And?
Winkler: I think Sly really taps right into that. That just because you're 60, it doesn't mean that your life is over. That you have to give up and kind of retire to an old age home. As a matter of fact, what they're saying is 60 is the old 40, or the new 40. But Sly is in great shape, and this is a story about a man who really feels he has something to give. And it works really fine, and it's got a lot of heart. I think people are gonna really be pleased with it.
Tavis: So if you feel sorry for Irwin Winkler and you wanna help him out during the holiday season. (Laugh)
Winkler: Yeah, go see 'Home of the Brave,' and go see 'Rocky,' yeah.
Tavis: There you go. (Laugh) Go see 'Home of the Brave,' and go see 'Rocky.' Nice to have you on the program.
Winkler: Thank you, Tavis, thank you.
Tavis: Pleasure to meet you.
Winkler: Thank you.
Tavis: That's our show for tonight. (Laugh) Catch me on the weekends on PRI, Public Radio International. Check your local listings. I'll see you back here next time on PBS. Until then, good night from Los Angeles, thanks for watching, and as always, keep the faith.
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