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• Q & A with Mr. Wambaugh
• L.A. Times article on Mr. Wambaugh
• Mr. Wambaugh on the Writers on Writing Series

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Tavis: Joseph Wambaugh is a former LAPD detective sergeant who turned stories of his time on the streets here in L.A. to an award-winning career as an author, screenwriter and television producer. Eight of his books have been adapted for television and film. He was also a creator and writer of the classic TV series 'Police Story.' His latest novel is the first in a decade. The book is called 'Hollywood Station,' which has already been optioned for a TV project by a guy named David E. Kelly. Joseph Wambaugh, nice to have you on the program, sir.

Joseph Wambaugh: Thank you, Tavis, my pleasure indeed.

Tavis: Pleasure to meet you. Where you been?

Wambaugh: Well, I've been writing stories in other places. I went to England and wrote a nonfiction book called 'The Blooding.' I went to Pennsylvania and wrote a true crime book. I just didn't wanna come back to L.A. to write about LAPD, because I felt I'd been away too long. And I got talked into it by another author, James Elroy, who wrote 'L.A. Confidential.'

Tavis: Best-selling author, yeah.

Wambaugh: Absolutely. I came back and I interviewed 54 cops to get the feel of it again, and I realized it's just like I'd never been away. It just flooded back on me. I'm still a cop, right down to the ground. And those 54 cops gave me the most wonderful stuff, and out of it came 'Hollywood Station.'

Tavis: Now, I don't know how to take that last statement, that not much had changed. You fell right back into it. Does that mean that LAPD hasn't changed over the last 20 years, and if so, is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Wambaugh: No, LAPD has changed. (Laugh) The Federal Consent Decree changes everything in terms of going out and doing everyday police work. But the basic fears, ambitions, emotions of cops are the same. People are people. And so once I got with them again and listened to them, I felt I can do this just as well as I ever did. And so I did, and it was easier than I thought, and I liked the characters that came out of it.

Tavis: Well, I'm sure readers will, as well. Before I come back to the text specifically, since you started out as a real cop working for and inside of LAPD, give me your quick assessment on this department these days. Here we are, weeks removed from another one of those now-infamous videotapes of the LAPD engaged in some activity that people are disturbed by for, I think, legitimate reasons. What's your sense of this department right about now?

Wambaugh: I think it's a good department. I think that really, when you examine the incidents that brought about the Federal Consent Decree and the U.S. attorney riding herd on LAPD, the Rodney King incident involved a handful of cops. The Rampart division scandal involved fewer than that. And when you think there are 9,000 cops out there that are under the Federal consent decree, largely because of those two incidents, they feel put upon; they feel it's not fair. So there are an awful lot of good cops out there. I feel that this is still a damn good police department.

Tavis: I wonder whether you think - much is made of the fact that comparatively speaking, that is to say compared to other police departments, the LAPD, for a city this size, is rather small. How much of that do you think plays into the kind of policing we get, good or bad?

Wambaugh: Well, you can't get your money's worth unless you hire some more cops. There are 25 detectives in Hollywood Station doing the work that 60 used to do. So, what can you expect? People don't wanna become cops today. And not just in LAPD, because of the Consent Decree. No, it's everywhere. It's dangerous out there. It's more violent than when I was a cop, and people don't wanna become cops.

Tavis: Not everybody knows L.A., LAPD specifically, but everybody knows Hollywood, obviously, it's Hollywood. What makes being a police officer in this city different in Hollywood than any other place in the city?

Wambaugh: Hollywood cops consider themselves in the heart of Los Angeles. They're proud of it. They feel that Hollywood is the center, and that people all over the world know where Hollywood is, or think they do. Or know what it's about, or think they do. And they say all the time, when you listen to Hollywood cops talking, they always say, 'Well, that's Hollywood.'

When they talk about a weird incident, a crazy incident, something that happens under a full Hollywood moon, they say, 'Well, that's Hollywood.' Much like they did in 'Chinatown,' remember the movie? They'd say, 'Well, that's Chinatown.' So, it's fun to write about Hollywood. And Tavis, I'm sick of cop shows, cop books, cop movies that present police work as ultra grim or super violent.

It isn't. If it was ultra grim and super violent, you would only get people who are ultra grim and super violent to be cops. There's a specific theme in this book, and it's uttered by the sergeant at Hollywood Station who says, 'Police work, good police work, is the most fun you will ever have in your lives.' And when I look back on it, I can attest to that. It's the most fun I ever had, and I'll never have that fun again.

Tavis: Some find those two words, those two thoughts, oxymoronic, mutually exclusive. You can't say police work and fun in the same sentence. Since you have, obviously, and I'm gonna yield to you, since you've been a police officer and I never have been, (laugh) tell me what's fun about being a police officer.

Wambaugh: When they read 'Hollywood Station,' they'll find out. For example, there's an incident in there that actually happened, I swear to you. Out in Grauman's Chinese, in front of it, there are all these cartoon characters and King Kong, Superman, Batman, three Elvises, fat Elvis, skinny Elvis, and Smelvis, who has the sweat stains under his arms? (Laugh) This actually happened, so help me.

A call came out that Batman had assaulted Spiderman, and the cops who got the call were told, see person reporting, Marilyn Monroe. So when they got there, Marilyn was posing as she did in that famous movie, with her dress blowing up, and the wig, and everybody was snapping pictures. And Marilyn Monroe turned out to be six foot three and a woman. Sorry, and not a woman. So, that's what they had that night. So - and that only happens in Hollywood, that kind of thing. They said, Batman will never eat lunch in this town again.

Tavis: Yeah. (Laugh) Tell me, when you're writing these books, what you want readers to take away. You're creating stories here, but you talk to real, live cops to get the ideas and the back stories, and to get the feel for it. What's the mission here with a novel these days from Wambaugh?

Wambaugh: Specifically, I want them to take away that police work is fun. I wanna see more people become cops. Good police work is fun. Sure, there are gonna be moments. In this book, there are moments that are terrifying and sad. But you can go out there and you can have a very good time. And I got stuff from these cops, particularly the women officers, and I'd like to see more women officers, that no man could have dreamed up and created.

One woman officer told me about a night - she was a young nursing mother, single mom. She told me when she was out there lactating. They had to stop at Musso & Frank's at the substation. She had to go into the restroom, take off her shirt, take off her t-shirt, take off her flak jacket, her Kevlar vest, and get her breast pump out of her war bag and start pumping. They got a hot call.

Her partner sticks his head in the door and says, 'Get the hell out here.' He doesn't like her; he's an old, crotchety guy; he doesn't wanna work with a woman. They run to the hot call, she left her gun inside. They get to the hot call, and it's a thing where everybody has their guns on some barricaded suspect. And he says to her, 'Where is your gun?' She said, 'Back in the substation.'

He said, 'Well, point your finger, then.' And she did. She went like this. And he looked at her and said, 'Go in my war bag, there's a little two-inch Smith & Wesson; use that.' And she said, 'Nah, I can't hit diddly with those things. I'm better off with this.' He laughed for the first time. He liked her, and they became the best of partners.

Tavis: I wonder what is to be gained out of changing the view, challenging the opinion we have of what police work is. I raise that only because I wonder if you put a book out that makes police work fun, as opposed to the stuff that we think police work is, let's face it, that stuff works. It sells. You got tons of TV dramas based upon police work that are absolutely antithetical to the kind of image that you're presenting. So how does this rate, how does this stack up against an image that we have of police work, and police officers?

Wambaugh: 'The Shield' is not truth. I don't care how well it's acted, and it is, and produced. The new Jack Nicholson film, 'The Departed,' is not true. If it was, where are the lawyers? (Laugh) Those cops would be sued to oblivion, and so would their bosses. Who can do police work like that? This is true. And that's what I want people to take away from this book.

This is the truth. I present, in this book, actual anecdotes that are true, and I mold them. I don't create, I recreate. And I want people to see what real police work is about. It's been too long since I wrote about LAPD. And maybe then, maybe we can get some young people who will come out there and become cops. By God, we better. Because these few cops can't handle the job anymore. It's too big.

Tavis: You've raised that point twice now, and I wanna go back and get it before I let you go. You've made the point twice now that you want people to consider police work, to consider careers as police officers, because the work is fun. That said, tell me what kind of recruits we ought to be looking for to make LAPD and other police departments across the country better police departments. What kind of recruits?

Wambaugh: People with common sense, a sense of humor, and a little compassion. Foremost, everything else has to work. They have to be able to pass a test, and have a background check. But those three qualities, you can't teach. You're born with them. And that's what I would look for. And I've always thought, if I could find those three qualities, common sense, sense of humor, and a little compassion, all else being equal, I could make a good cop out of that person.

Tavis: What about reaching out specifically to persons of color, to make these departments look more like America?

Wambaugh: Well, sure. Well, sure. There are, about 20 percent of the LAPD are women, and the other percentages are pretty close to the reality of the city, really. The ethnic breakdown, if you look at it right now. But hey, why don't they come out? This is a job with good pay, good benefits, and you're gonna have the most fun you've ever had in your lives. Take it from an old man, looking back.

Tavis: I never quite thought of police work as fun, (laugh) but if Wambaugh says it, then I'm gonna at least give it a read. The new book is 'Hollywood Station,' by Joseph Wambaugh. It has been too long, 10 years since the last book, 20 years since he last wrote about LAPD. But he's back, and David E. Kelly has already optioned this, which means it must be pretty good, so check it out. Mr. Wambaugh, nice to have you on.

Wambaugh: Thanks Tavis, my pleasure.

Tavis: Pleasure to meet you. That's our show for tonight. Catch me on the weekends on PRI, Public Radio International. Check your local listings. I'll catch you back here next time on PBS. Until then, good night from Los Angeles, thanks for watching, and as always, keep the faith.