E-mail a friendNicholas Burns
original airdate January 9, 2007
In his position as Under Secretary, Nicholas Burns is the State Department's third ranking official and oversees U.S. policy in each region of the world. He's worked in a series of positions at the State Department and has also served as U.S. ambassador to NATO and Greece. Burns began his Foreign Service career in Africa and the Middle East, after working as Program Officer at A.T. International, a nonprofit organization specializing in economic assistance for Third World countries.
Nicholas Burns
Tavis: Nicholas Burns is the Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs, and one of the highest-ranking officials in the State Department. Prior to his current post, he served as the U.S. permanent representative to NATO. He was also a special assistant to President Clinton as a member of the White House national security staff. He joins us tonight from the State Department. Secretary Burns, nice to have you on the program, sir.
Nicholas Burns: Good evening, Tavis, nice to be with you.
Tavis: Thank you. It's always fascinating, on those rare occasions when you get a chance to talk to someone who has served presidents who are, belong to different parties. So you worked in the Clinton years, you worked in the Bush years. How does one do that these days, when we keep reading and the polls indicate that we have a divided country where politics is concerned?
Burns: Well, I'm a career foreign service officer, a career diplomat, and we're just like career military officers. We serve each administration. We do so with 100 percent loyalty. Because we support the country, we support the person that the country elects to be president. So I, of course, like all of my colleagues here, I served President Clinton and enjoyed that very much and had a great experience during that.
And I'm very honored to serve President Bush. So, you need people in the civil service that can serve across administrations, and we certainly need bipartisanship in Washington DC.
Tavis: This question might be a bit impolitic, but it would seem to me, given the polls that indicate that most Americans think the president is moving in the wrong direction where Iraq policy is concerned, that diplomatically, that kind of puts a guy like you in a box around the world. Yes, no?
Burns: Oh, I don't feel that way. I think, well, first of all, the president's gonna address the American people in just over 24 hours. And I hope Americans will listen to him and listen to the president's way forward on Iraq. All of us have so much invested in success in Iraq. All of us who are American citizens. We have so many troops overseas.
We wanna see them succeed, we wanna protect them. So when I talk to people from governments, and I do that every day, from foreign governments, I feel that we've got the power and weight of our country behind us, both the people and the government. And I think the United States has a strong hand around the world.
And we have a lot that we can do to make this world more peaceful and secure, but we've gotta start in the Middle East, you're right, Tavis. With these four interlocking crises, the war in Iraq, the challenge posed by Iran to security in the Middle East, the problem of Hizbullah trying to bring down the Lebanese government, and the challenge that we've been at for nearly 60 years to build peace between Israel and the Palestinians, there are vital American interests at stake in each of those four issues. And our government is engaged on each one of them.
Tavis: You mentioned a moment ago that the U.S. has a strong hand around the world. Given that we are the world's last superpower, nobody's surprised by that announcement, that we have a strong hand around the world. I guess the question, respectfully, is whether or not our hand is getting weaker. It's like we're playing a game of poker, and you got that nice poker face, but your hand really ain't as strong as you're letting on.
Burns: I think you've gotta - it depends what you're talking about. There's no question that we have tremendous challenges ahead of us in the Middle East, particularly in Iraq, and that we've gotta find a way to be successful. But as I look around the world, I see our relationship with China, the largest country in the world. It's never been as solid, for many, many years, as it is now.
Our relationship with India, soon to be the largest country in the world. It's gonna overtake China in population. Where first President Clinton, but now especially President Bush have put forward this proposition that India can be a strategic partner, and our relationship is flowering with India. I think in Africa, we've never seen a time, certainly in my 25-year diplomatic career, I've never seen a time when the United States has been so engaged in a positive way through HIV-AIDS relief, through a tripling of our development assistance to the African people.
So if you go all the way around the world, we are a powerful country. We're doing many, many good things. And it's important that we stay engaged in the world, because that's in our interests, and it's also our responsibility.
Tavis: What's your honest view, though, of how we are, in fact, viewed right now in the Middle East?
Burns: Well, I think right now if you did a public opinion poll in the Middle East, we probably wouldn't come out ahead. And that's a challenge that we've gotta work on. But it's most important that we find a way to protect our soldiers in Iraq, and that we find a winning hand and a successful strategy. And that's the purpose of all of us as citizens, as well as those of us in positions of responsibility need to bring to this very difficult proposition of figuring out a way ahead in Iraq.
And you can't always watch those public opinion polls, because they go up and they go down. You've gotta do what you think is right, and you've gotta also have policies that can survive over the long term. That's the challenge that we have in the Middle East. And we haven't given up. And we're certainly doing everything we can to figure out a way forward that's gonna be successful for our country.
Tavis: These conversations are always a bit tricky when you're talking to someone who is a career State Department official as opposed to one who came in with a particular administration. That said, as you well know, these polls for the president have been down for some time. You're right. Polls go up and down. Pardon my English, they ain't been up for the president for a long time where Iraq and where the Middle East are concerned.
And I say that to ask this question, and that is whether or not - again, tricky question for a diplomat. Whether or not it is difficult for the State Department, for diplomats like yourselves, to do your jobs when there is a view of a guy in the White House, in this case President Bush, that does not suggest that he's interested in diplomacy.
If you did that poll, you're right. I think you're right. We wouldn't come out ahead. It's just not not coming out ahead, though. It is that people don't view the guy who currently occupies the Oval Office as concerned, interested in real diplomacy. Never mind a guy like Nick Burns, who's been there forever.
Burns: Well, Tavis, it's our job - think, American diplomats are much like military officers. Our job is to give 100 percent dedication and loyalty to the President of the United States, and we do that every day here. I was just in India last month, 30 days ago. And in India, President Bush - this is soon to be the largest country in the world, by population.
President Bush is very well thought of. He is a popular figure. The United States is held in great respect, and we're high up in the public opinion polls. And we're not doing so badly in China, either. And we're doing very well in countries like Australia and Japan. So these are major countries with which we have vital relations. And so I think it's important to take a global look at this.
But our job is not to question the president; it's to support the president. And you can't have a government that functions if you have people standing up saying they disagree with policy. And we do support this administration and the president, as we support these efforts to make the world more peaceful and more secure.
Tavis: Let me ask it this way, then. What do you think the greatest challenge is as we speak to repairing, revitalizing, improving - trying to give you some latitude here? Improving the view that those persons in the Middle East have of the U.S. that is not so kind, not so complimentary?
Burns: Well, part of the reason why sometimes the United States takes it on the chin in the press in the Middle East is because some of those countries have state-controlled presses. And some of those countries are not democracies. And there's a lot of inaccurate reporting about American society, as well as the American government.
And that's obviously a reason why, at least a partial reason why there's such a negative image in some countries of the United States. But obviously, we've gotta do what we think is right. We've gotta serve the interests of the American people. So we'd like to see an effort for peace between Israel and the Palestinians.
We wanna stand up for the democratically-elected government in Lebanon, and be seen to be doing that. And we are doing that. We want to oppose the policies of Iran, which is the central banker funding all those Middle East terrorist groups. And we wanna be successful in Iraq. And if we can achieve those on each of those four issues, achieve progress, I think you'll see people in the Middle East respond to that.
And I think you'll see people believe that what the United States is doing is right. But I also know, based on my experience serving in other administrations, that sometimes no matter what the United States does around the world, someone is not gonna like it. And so you can't always just base your policy on public opinion polls in some other country.
You've gotta do what's right for the United States of America, and for our responsibility to be a country that strives for peace, and strives for stability around the world.
Tavis: He is the Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs; he is Nicholas Burns. Secretary Burns, nice to have you on the program. All the best to you.
Burns: It's been a pleasure, Tavis, thank you very much.
Tavis: Thank you, sir.
Burns: Thank you.
Tavis: Up next, 'New York Times' columnist Thomas Friedman. Stay with us.
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