E-mail a friendMavis Staples
airdate April 26, 2007
A Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductee, one of VH1's 100 Greatest Women of Rock and Roll and music veteran, Mavis Staples blazed an R&B trail while maintaining her gospel roots. Her talent has been evident with her family group, the Staple Singers—whose music was part of the fabric of the civil rights struggle—as a solo artist and in collaboration with such artists as Prince and Bob Dylan. Staples recently completed work on "We'll Never Turn Back," which embraces Southern gospel and social protest.
Writing freedom songs inspired by Dr. King (2:31).
Mavis Staples
Tavis: I am honored to welcome Mavis Staples to this program. The soul and gospel great began singing with her legendary family back in the 1950s. After meeting Dr. King at a concert in Montgomery in 1963. The Staples Singers were inspired to concentrate on freedom songs, including the classic "Long Walk to D.C."
She also enjoyed, of course, a very successful solo career. Her latest CD is a return to her civil rights roots called "We'll Never Turn Back." For those of you in the New York area, you are lucky. You get to catch the legendary Mavis Staples at the legendary Apollo Theater on May 14th and 15th. In a moment, she'll perform a song from this new disc, but first, Mavis Staples, an honor to have you on this program.
Mavis Staples: Tavis, I'm so happy to be here, you just don't know (laughs). I've been wanting to be with you so long, be on your show.
Tavis: Well, I'm delighted.
Staples: Just to see you. I've seen you; we just love and admire your work
Tavis: Well, I appreciate that.
Staples: Everything - I have my empowerment cards.
Tavis: You got the empowerment cards?
Tavis: Look at you. Look at you.
Staples: Yeah (laughs).
Tavis: Well, this is one big mutual admiration society, then. 'Cause you're - but your music and that of your family has inspired generations of people. You do know that your music is like the soundtrack to peoples' lives.
Staples: Yes, yes.
Tavis: They mark their lives by when those songs came out.
Staples: Yes, it's amazing. It's amazing. It's just wonderful. And it's amazing the way we started out. We didn't start singing for a career. We were just singing more or less to amuse ourselves because our mother worked nights and Pops worked days. And Pops would keep us at night. So after we finished our homework, after we finished listening to "The Shadow" and Pops would get his little guitar he had from the pawn shop and call us in the living room and start giving us parts to sing that he and his brothers and sisters would sing down in Mississippi. And there were 14 of them, Tavis. Seven boys and seven girls.
Tavis: Wow.
Staples: They ran out of names. (Laughter) They ran out of names. It came down to Pops and my uncle - Pops was the baby. So they made my uncle Sears and they named Pops Roebuck. They had them a Sears-Roebuck. (Laughter) They did.
Tavis: You cannot fade the creativity of Black folk.
Staples: No, no, no. No.
Tavis: You can't fade Black folk in creativity.
Staples: No way.
Tavis: They had them a Sears-Roebuck in the family.
Staples: In the family.
Tavis: Good lord.
Staples: 'Cause that Sears-Roebuck catalogue was powerful down in Mississippi.
Tavis: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely (laughs).
Staples: And so they had them one. But Pops, yeah, that's the way he taught us. And we made a record in 1954 on Vee Jay Records, "Uncloudy Day," and it sold like an R&B record. The president called Pops, he said, "Staples, this record is selling like an R&B. Never seen no gospel record sell like this." And that's "Uncloudy Day."
Took us out on the road. Well, I was still in high school, so we had to travel during that time. And then after I finished high school, we just took to the road. We've been going ever since. Ever since.
Tavis: Tell me about that meeting with Dr. King. Your father saw Dr. King and decided he would change his style a little bit. Tell me about that meeting and what that meant for your music.
Staples: That made our first transition from strictly gospel. See, we were singing strictly gospel on just Pops' guitar, and we were in Montgomery, Alabama. Pops said, "This man Martin is here, and I like his message." He'd been hearing Dr. King on the radio. And he said, "He has a church here. I want to go to his 11:00 service. Do you all wanna go?" We said, "Yeah, Dad, we wanna go." We all went to Dr. King's -
Tavis: Of course, that church was Dexter.
Staples: Dexter Avenue Baptist Church, right. Montgomery, Alabama.
Tavis: I love these stories. This guy named King is here. He got a church. (Laughter) You mean Dr. King at Dexter Avenue. But I love this. Go ahead, I'm sorry. Go ahead, yeah.
Staples: That's the way you say it. Here's that Martin. (Laughter) And so we went to Dr. King's church. Someone let him know that we were in the service. He acknowledged us. He said, "I'm glad to have Pops Staples and his daughters here." And we enjoyed the service. When the service was over, Dr. King would stand at the door to shake the worshipper's hands as they filed out. So we shook Dr. King's hand.
We walked up, my sisters and I, and then Pops, he stood there and talked to him for a while. Well, after Pops finally came on, we went back to the hotel. He called us to his room. He said, "Listen, y'all. I really like this man's message. I really like his message. And I think that if he can preach it, we can sing it." And we began writing freedom songs.
We joined a movement. The first song we wrote was "March Up Freedom's Highway." That was for the march from Selma to Montgomery. Then we wrote us "A Long Walk to D.C., but I Got My Walking Shoes On." And "When Will Be Paid for the Work We've Done?" That's one they wouldn't play on the radio. We couldn't get past the - that was too powerful, too strong.
Tavis: What was it about that particular song, the lyric?
Staples: The lyrics, yes. (Singing) When will we be paid for the work we've done? We have worked this country from shore to shore. Our women cooked all your food, and washed all your clothes. We picked all your cotton, and laid the railroad steel. Worked our hands to the bone at your lumber mill. I say, when will we be paid for the work we've done?
And then this is another verse, I just don't want to take up all your time.
Tavis: No, I'm blown away by this, because for that song to be the one that doesn't get airplay, it kind of takes us full circle back to - it brings us all the way around to 2007. You can get a conversation in America about just about everything except reparations.
Staples: Yes, yes.
Tavis: And that song -
Staples: That song.
Tavis: You follow me on this?
Staples: Yes, indeed.
Tavis: It speaks of that whole notion of paying these Negros for what they've done, and "No, we can't play that, 'cause that might stir up a whole controversy." That's why you can't get a reparations bill passed out of Congress to even study the issue.
Staples: That's right, that's right.
Tavis: Because people don't want to go that far.
Staples: They don't want to go that far.
Tavis: Yeah.
Staples: And there was one congresslady in Memphis wanted to use that song for reparations. She was going up against, and - but you gotta hear it. It's a good song. And we sang it in a movie, "Soul to Soul." We went to Ghana back in 1970, and we sang "When Will We Be Paid?" So we've just been so blessed. Our songs have helped and inspired and uplifted. And I'm just still here to carry on.
Tavis: What do you make of the fact that these freedom songs - Black music has always been powerful in and of itself, but there's something about gospel, something about freedom songs in that genre of gospel where the lyrical content just moves people. What is it about this music you think that just?
Staples: Well, Tavis, see, gospel, in itself, is good news music.
Tavis: Mm, good news music.
Staples: Good news music. And then you add these freedom lyrics to the gospel songs, and it's just good news and we want justice, we want freedom. It's just shouting time. It's shouting time; it's get on your feet and do something. You can't lose. And Mahalia used to say can't lose with stuff we [unintelligible]. But [unintelligible]. (Laughter) Can't lose. But you see, these songs, we - I decided to do them because I just feel like they need to be heard by our youth.
One little girl - one teacher [unintelligible] in Chicago, she said, "Mavis, I felt so bad. This kid, when Sister Rosa Parks passed away, and it was all on TV and on the news, the young lady came to her and asked her, 'What did she do? Who - what did she do?' She didn't know. She was 17 years old." So we, as parents, we haven't passed it on to our children.
We don't have any Black history in the schools. So this is - they need to know what we went through for them to give them the right to vote, to give them the platform to be doing their hip hop and their bling-bling and what. This all come from Dr. Martin Luther King. He made it all possible. We have a Black man running for president. Unbelievable.
Tavis: Who goes to your church in Chicago. You go to Trinity.
Staples: Yeah, Trinity.
Tavis: Dr. Jeremiah Wright.
Staples: Jeremiah Wright.
Tavis: So you and Barack go to the same church.
Staples: We sure do. We go to the same church. But all of this has happened, and Dr. King made it possible. So why not sing these songs? These songs - we shouldn't have ever stopped singing them.
Tavis: Did you have any way of knowing - you were so young then, as you mentioned. You were just a kid when you got started touring. Still in school. Did you have any - I knew you were aware of the tumultuous times in which you were living, but did you have any idea the impact that your music was having in that period?
Staples: No, I didn't. No, Tavis, I really didn't. I didn't. Pops was our leader and we knew - I knew that we were doing something righteous. I knew that we - but you see, we couldn't see everybody. We would see the people that - and we knew Dr. King was grateful. Congressman John Lewis was grateful. Those people - the movement.
We were given our service. We were doing what we felt like we were supposed to be doing. And we knew - Pops would tell, "Well, now this song." He heard Dylan singing it. He said, "Y'all hear what that kid is singing?" And he said, "We can sing that song."
Tavis: The kid he's talking about, of course, is Bob Dylan.
Staples: Yeah. (Laughter)
Tavis: Okay. I just love - this is amazing to me, because I love - you mentioned Mahalia a moment ago; that would be Mahalia Jackson.
Staples: Yeah. (Laughter)
Tavis: So the people you have known in your life, just these relationships, yeah.
Staples: Yes, yes, yes, yes. And Dylan, [unintelligible]. Dylan and I were - I was about 16, he was about 15 when we met him.
Tavis: Yeah. (Laughter)
Staples: And but see, he was singing a song and a song that my father could very much relate to. How many times? How many roads must a man walk down before you can call him a man? And Pops would tell us there were times when he was walking down the street in Mississippi, if a White person was walking towards him; he had to cross the street.
He couldn't walk on that same side. So, he said we could sing, and Pops was - just had a young mind, aggressive. So whatever he felt that we should do, "Yes, sir, Daddy." We were on the wagon with.
Tavis: You have, in this conversation, which as gone on for whatever - 12, 15 minutes already - you keep coming back to your daddy. Pops, Pops, Pops, Pops.
Staples: Yes, yes.
Tavis: You are the last active member - last actively singing member of that famous Staples family.
Staples: Yes, yes.
Tavis: Why you? What do you make of why Mavis?
Staples: Well -
Tavis: It's a blessing.
Staples: It's a blessing. It's a blessing. And when we started, I was the baby. My sister Yvonne, she's with me and she keeps me focused. I hate to go anywhere by myself, so she's everywhere with me. But Pops told me, "Mavis, the best thing - " when Pops passed, Tavis -
Tavis: It's 2000.
Staples: Two thousand. I'm saying - and I've been with my father from a kid, traveling, 57 years we've been singing. I said, “Now Daddy, you have left me here. What am I supposed to do?" I prayed to the lord, what do I do? What can I do? Tavis, Pops left me, I don't even know what key I sing in. That was the main thing I was worried about.
Tavis: (Laughs) You said, what key do I sing in now?
Staples: What key do I sing? But I prayed, I prayed. I asked my pastor, I asked my church to pray for me. When I was trying to make my first CD after Pops' passing, I was despondent, I was depressed, I was procrastinating, I couldn't get nothing started. I couldn't - I was just pitiful. And I prayed one night, it just hit me. All right, you got to do this.
Daddy would want you to continue singing, Mavis. You never had any training. This is your gift. God's gift to you. If you don't use it, God'll take it back. He'll take it away. And so I knew I had to sing. I had to sing. So that's why I'm here today. That's why I'm the last active. I know what God can do, I know what he will do, I know that he has kept me. I praise him. I give God all the praise and all the glory, because if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't be here right now.
Tavis: And that faith notwithstanding, you all have had so many gospel hits over the years. At the same time, you hit the charts so big with these crossovers. I just want to throw the obvious ones at you and let you tell me whatever you want to tell me about these songs. We all know them, we've all heard them, but just tell me something about these songs. When I say to you "Respect Yourself," tell me about that song.
Staples: My favorite. That's my favorite song.
Tavis: Of all of them.
Staples: I loved to hear Daddy - of all of them, that's my - but you hear how cool Pops is? (Singing) If you disrespect everybody that you run into. I said, "Daddy, you can really sing." (Laughter) You can really sing. And he said, "Mavis, you got to know how to sing." And he - look. The best thing that my father, the best thing that - best advice that was ever given to me come straight from Pops.
He told me, Tavis, one time we was up in New York and I was about 13. These kids that sang right before us, and they was jumping around and they were singing at the top of their voices, and so when I got on stage, I did that. And Pops said - pulled me off and he said, "Mavis, what is wrong with you?" (Laughter) I said, "Nothing, Dad. I'm - " he said, "Listen, let me tell you something. This music is sacred. You singing God's music. You be sincere in what you're doing."
He said, "You don't need no gimmicks. You don't need to sing at the top of your voice. You don't need to clown. You sing from your heart. Sing from your heart." He said, "What comes from the heart, reaches the heart."
Tavis: Reaches the heart, yeah.
Staples: "If you sing from your heart, you have reached those people out there. You ain't gotta be jumping around." And I've never forgotten that as long - I hear his words right now. When I go on stage, Tavis, when I open my mouth, I've already gone to my heart. I've gone to my - that's where it's coming from. When I sing for you, you getting Mavis. You getting my heart.
Tavis: When I say, "Let's Do It Again."
Staples: (Singing) Do it again. [unintelligible] Well, Curtis, (laughter) Curtis Mayfield - look, Pops told Curtis, "Curtis -” Dad said, "Curtis, I ain't singing that song, man. I'm a church man. I ain't singing." Curtis say, "Pops, this is your part: (singing) 'I like you, lady, so fine with your -'" Dad said, "Curtis, what's wrong with you? I ain't singing that." Curtis said, "Oh, Pops, come on, man. The Lord won't mind." He said (laughter) -
Tavis: The Lord won't mind.
Staples: The Lord won't mind. (Laughter) He said, "I'll pray for you, Pop. I'll pray for you.” He said - and look, it got so bad, Daddy was pulling back so much, then we started begging Daddy. We said, "Daddy, come on. It's just a movie. It's a movie." We wanted to hear our voices on the big screen (laughs). So we begged him too. He finally came here.
We go to this premiere and just as Pops - just as the movie start, John Kennedy walks across the [unintelligible]. Bill Cosby [unintelligible], and Pops said, (singing) "I like you, lady." (Laughter)
Tavis: That'll make you sing. That scene will make you sing, yeah.
Staples: Oh, and everybody looked around to Pops, and he was just smiling this big smile. Said, "You see that, Daddy?" Yeah, and oh, you talk about screaming, the ladies would scream when Pops would say that on stage. (Singing) "So fine with your pretty hair, let's do it again." Curtis Mayfield and yeah, that went gold, that went platinum.
Tavis: What an icon Curtis Mayfield was.
Staples: Oh, Tavis. Oh, Tavis.
Tavis: What an icon.
Staples: And just genius. Just genius. Just so soft. And he came to Pops, and told Pops, he said, "Pops -” 'cause we lived right in the same neighborhood. And about three blocks down, and Curtis came and he said, "Pops, I want to write some of them songs that you and the girls are singing." Daddy said, "You ought to, Curtis. You ought to write you some songs."
Curtis started to write (singing) we're moving on up. And then he wrote "People Get Ready." He wrote - and we sang some of his songs. We sang "People Get Ready." So Daddy told him, he said, "Write what you feel. Write what is personal to you. Write, write, man." And he talked - Daddy always talked to him like a son. All them folk - everybody called Pops, Pops.
Black men, millionaires down in Birmingham, Alabama [unintelligible]. He came to Pops one day, he said, "Pops -
Tavis: Mr. Gaston?
Staples: “- I wanna be your son-in-law." Yeah (laughs).
Tavis: Wow.
Staples: Mr. Gaston.
Tavis: A.G. Gaston.
Staples: A.G. Gaston.
Tavis: Wow. When you said millionaire in Alabama - wasn't a whole lot of brothers that were millionaires were millionaires back in the day. It had to be Mr. Gaston.
Staples: That's right; I knew you knew him, yeah.
Tavis: [Unintelligible] Okay, I'm sorry - yeah, go ahead.
Staples: And when he told Daddy he wanted to be his son, Daddy [unintelligible] "What you talking about, you wanna be my son-in-law? You older than I am; you can't be my son." (Laughter) He said, "That don't mean nothing, I could." Now, I won't say which one of the girls he wanted to marry.
Tavis: Oh, yeah, we'll leave that alone. Let me close this conversation - I know all your fans watching. You can't talk to Mavis Staples and not say "I'll Take You There." Has that song been - is that the most covered song in the world, or what?
Staples: Tavis, it is. And it's still being covered. And they play it today, it sounds like it's brand new. It's just evergreen.
Tavis: I was on my treadmill this morning, literally, listening to that version with you, B.B., and CeCe.
Staples: Yeah. I love that.
Tavis: I love that version, yeah.
Staples: I love that. They put, like, an island of [unintelligible] to it. But "I'll Take You There." Now, out of all the songs we sing, "I'll Take You There," the church people wanted to put us out of church. "I'll Take You There," the Staples Singers singing the devil's music. And I had to do interviews, and I'm telling people, "The devil ain't got no music. All music is God's music. We ain't singing no devils - you have to listen the lyrics.
"We're telling you I know a place ain't nobody crying, ain't nobody worried, ain't no smiling faces lying to the races. Where else could we be taking you but to Heaven? We're talking about taking you to Heaven, so." They listened, I did - all of us did interviews. We got invited back to church. First request, right in the pulpit, "I'll Take You There."
Tavis: "I'll Take You There?" (Laughter)
Staples: "I'll Take You There." So "I'll Take You There" has brought us a mighty long way.
Tavis: Oh, lord, it has.
Staples: Yes, indeed.
Tavis: I could talk to Mavis Staples for hours here, if only they gave me that kind of time around here. But I want to leave a little time - just a little bit for her to give us a special performance from this new CD. If you are a Mavis Staples fan, you want this in your collection. If you're not, where you been? You need to get everything ever made by the Staples Singers.
The new CD is called "Mavis Staples, We'll Never Turn Back." And before you perform, Mavis, let me just tell you how grateful I am that you have never turned back.
Staples: Oh, Tavis, thank you. Thank you; and I never will.
Tavis: I'm so honored to have you on this program.
Staples: Thank you, Tavis.
Tavis: Thank you so much.
Staples: It's been my pleasure.
Tavis: Oh, my delight.
Staples: All right.
Tavis: Up next on this program, a special performance from Mavis Staples, stay with us.
"Staples Singers:" (Singing) Respect yourself, respect yourself. Respect yourself, yeah, you ought to respect yourself. If you're walking around thinking that the world owe you something 'cause you're here -
Tavis: From her new CD "We'll Never Turn Back," here is Mavis Staples singing "On My Way." Enjoy. Good night from Los Angeles, and keep the faith.
[Performance]
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