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Presidential responsibility for Hurricane Katrina (1:19).
 

Full interview (12:24)
 

Tavis: I'm pleased to welcome John Edwards back to this program.The former North Carolina senator is, of course, seeking the Democratic nomination for president in 2008.He is the co-author of the recent book "Ending Poverty in America:How to Restore the American Dream."Earlier today, he delivered a major speech at the Council on Foreign Relations, which included strong and pointed language about President Bush's war on terror.

[Clip]

Tavis: The worst thing, Senator, is that it has backfired.In what ways?

John Edwards: Oh, in multiple ways, Tavis.First of all, as I said there, he uses it to justify everything he does.Second, he uses it to beat up anybody who voices any opposition to what he wants to do, and then most importantly, as I just pointed out, it's backfired.And the way it's backfired is terrorism is up; it's not down.

According to Bush's own State Department, there's a 25 percent increase in terrorism in the year 2006, and all you have to do is look at Iraq to know Iraq has become a huge recruiting tool for terrorist organizations around the world, and it had a huge diminishment in America's standing in the world; our moral authority to lead. So we have huge work to do for the next president.

Tavis: Speaking about moral authority to lead, you've been very clear, obviously - certainly given your speech today and all you had to say about it heretofore - you're very clear on where you stand on Iraq, and we can talk more about that in a second.But I'm pretty clear on that.What I've been anxious to ask you is what you make of this so-called Bush doctrine - that is to say, this notion of preemptive strike.

We hit you first, ask questions later, and that has become - that's a major change, as you well know, in U.S. policy and how we engage the world.So let's set Iraq aside for just a moment, although it's a perfect example.Where do you stand on this so-called Bush doctrine of preemptive strike?

Edwards: It was completely unnecessary and has done incredible damage to America.I spoke about that earlier today at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York.The President of the United States has always had the authority to take the necessary steps to keep our country safe and to protect our allies.All this did, announcing this preemptive strike doctrine, all it did was create provocation for people around the world who either were already antagonistic to America or were ambivalent about America. And so it did exactly the opposite of what it theoretically was intended to do, and I'm against it.I don't think it's necessary.

Tavis: I don't know how you read this, but certainly many critics believe that Congress, the Democratic Congress, that is, blinked in this showdown with President Bush. Although they threatened to take him to court, they blinked in this showdown with him.President Bush had said all along, "I am not going to sign legislation, I will not accept legislation with regard to funding the war that has attached to it timetables, dates and times certain for withdrawal."

He said all along, "I'm not going to do that."The Democrats said, "Yes, you will."They have now, as you well know, taken that language out.So did the Democrats in Congress blink, and had you been leading the congressional Democrats, what would your approach have been?

Edwards: We would have stood our ground, Tavis.This is not about politics; this is about life and death.We have men and women putting their lives on the line in Iraq.We have men and women leaving their families here in America going to serve in Iraq.And the American people have made very clear what they want.They made it clear in the last election; every poll I've ever seen says the same thing.

What America wants is they want a different course in Iraq.They want America out of Iraq.The Congress' power to make that happen is its funding authority; so they submitted a bill to Congress; they did what they were supposed to do - submitted a bill to the Congress supporting the troops, funding the troops, with a timetable for withdrawal.

George Bush vetoed the bill.He decided not to provide the funding for the troops.And now, what I would do if I were in the Congress is submit another bill to the president with a timetable for withdrawal.They ought to stand their ground, and that will eventually force this president to start withdrawing troops.

Tavis: I want to talk in a moment about what you're calling on Americans to do this weekend relative to the war.Before I do that, it just occurs to me now to ask you whether or not you can ever imagine - this is obviously conjecture in some regard - but could you ever imagine as president having a position so strongly, holding a position so strongly that when every poll, survey, in America indicated that the American people thought you were wrong and your numbers had dropped into the twenties, can you imagine ever staying the course when everybody in America was saying to you, "Mr. President, you're going about this the wrong way?"

Edwards: Well, he's just dead wrong about Iraq.That's why the American people feel that way.And I think it's very important for the President of the United States to not be out of touch with the people that he represents.Because the political will of America is important to doing anything important in America and the rest of the world.

I will say, though, Tavis, there are occasions - this is not one; this is a case where this president's wrong - there are occasions where it is important for the President of the United States to show leadership and bring the country along to a position.But that's not what's happened here.

Tavis: That's what he would argue, as you well know.

Edwards: No, I think it's the opposite here.I think what's happened here is George Bush actually had the support of the American people when he went into Iraq.He created this incredible mess and now they've left him; and he's out there by himself.And he's so bullheaded he won't change his position.That's the reason the Congress - and you asked me about this earlier - that's the reason the Congress needs to do the will of America and force this president's hand.

Tavis: What's your sense, then, of what we need to do - before we get into this weekend - what's your sense of what the strategy, the policy ought to be as we speak tonight where Iraq is concerned?

Edwards: America needs to be leaving Iraq.If I were president today, I'd withdraw 50,000 troops out of the north and south.I'd continue that withdrawal over the next nine to 12 months.I would engage the Iranians and the Syrians into helping stabilize Iraq, and I would work with the Sunni and Shi'a leadership to try to reach a political reconciliation.That's what America should be doing.

Tavis: And to Bush's notion that if you did that, that if you just up and left, the place would implode?

Edwards: Well, the place is in a bad place right now.Look at what's happening on the ground.And it could implode no matter what happens.We have bad choices.Those bad choices have been presented to us by George Bush, and the next President of the United States is going to be left with an awesome responsibility not just in Iraq, Tavis, but to restore America's moral standing in the world so that the rest of the world once again looks up to and respects America.

Tavis: And so to that end, Senator, while those of us in the media do get a chance to ask you all, the candidates, questions about where you stand on Iraq and other issues, you have taken a different take on this.You've asked the American people to stand up and to do something this weekend.Tell me more about what Edwards is calling on America to do this Memorial Day weekend.

Edwards: What we've asked is show your love, affection, and support for the troops this weekend. It's Memorial Day weekend. You can do that by doing some of the things that we're doing in my campaign, and personally, by sending support packages to the troops, sending letters to the troops, speaking out in support of the troops.

But an additional step, an important step, is to speak out in support of the troops by speaking out to end the war and to bring our troops home.Because that's actually a great act of patriotism is to have to strength and passion to speak out to end this war and to help bring our troops home.

Tavis: How would you respond to those who might say to you that your positions are hypocritical?That is to say, on the one hand you want Americans this weekend to show their support of the troops by sending them care packages, letters, e-mails, etc., etc. On the other hand, you would, were you in Congress, have not seen eye-to-eye with the president to give them, what he would say, the funding they need to complete the job.

Edwards: Well, I think that's just dead wrong, and the first thing I would say is listen, any time you take a strong stance - and I recognize this is a strong stance for me to take - any time you take a strong stance, you're going to be subjected to criticism.If you're not ready for that, you're not ready to be President of the United States.

The second thing I would say is speaking out in support of the troops - and it's George Bush, by the way, who won't sign the bill that funds the troops - speaking out in support of the troops meeting our patriotic duty to end this war, which will be to the advantage of the troops and their families.

Tavis: As our nightly viewers around here know, we've been promoting for some time that we are honored to have the opportunity on June 28th at Howard University in Washington to moderate a presidential forum featuring you and all the other Democrats running for the White House in 2008.Delighted that you're confirmed, and we will see you in Washington.

That said, I know that one of the things that I'm anxious to have in this conversation, where the focus is going to be on issues important to people who live and work in communities of color - a conversation beyond Iraq - and I can't imagine that the issue of poverty is not going to come up.And to your credit, more than anybody else, you've been out front for some time now on this issue of poverty.Why, for a guy like you?

Edwards: Well, I've been very lucky in my life, but I started with nothing, and it's an issue that's near and dear to my heart.I've been running a poverty center at the University of North Carolina. I just had a book come out a few days ago, "Ending Poverty in America," which you made reference to, and thank you for that. And basically, the idea is I want to elevate the discussion.Get these presidential candidates not just talking about but making very specific proposals about what we can do to lift millions of Americans out of poverty who literally are worried about survival every day. I think it's a huge moral issue facing our country.

Tavis: You've suggested that we can end poverty in America inside of 30 years.Give me the quick take on that.

Edwards: Having a living wage for people who are working.Helping workers organize themselves into unions so they can earn a better wage, get healthcare coverage, pension protection.Access to college by making college available to any kid in America who's qualified to go and willing to work at least 10 hours a week.Changing our housing policy so we'd break down some of these economic and racial barriers that exist across America.Those are some of the big pieces of helping end poverty.

Tavis: Next week on this program, starting on Monday night - another programming note - we are kicking off, Senator, a week-long series, all five nights, next Monday through Friday, May 28th through June 1st - the last year and a half, the Academy Award winner, Jonathan Demme, the filmmaker, has been traveling back and forth to New Orleans tracking the stories of these five individuals - five families.

And we're going to showcase their story every night for five consecutive nights on the "Right to Return."Trying to rebuild their lives, get back in their homes in New Orleans.I raise that to you specifically because, as you know, you started your campaign - you announced you were running for the White House from New Orleans.

It seems to me that if we can't take the example of poverty that was expressed by what happened before and quite frankly after Katrina, if those pictures, if those stories, can't focus the attention of America on poverty, I don't know what can.And yet I say honestly to you I think we've forgotten about that.The issue of poverty is off the table, quite frankly.

Edwards: But the reason for that is that we've had no leadership on it.The American people were responsive in the initial stages after the hurricane hit, and of course we've all seen what's going on in New Orleans.I've been down there time and time again, took hundreds of college kids down there to work.As you pointed out, I announced my presidential campaign from the Ninth Ward of New Orleans.

Because I think it's a national embarrassment, what's happened in New Orleans, and we have responsibility to do something about it.But what's missing is a president and national leadership that makes this a focal point, that makes it an issue of character and morality for America.That it's not okay to have millions of our own people who literally wake up every day worried about feeding and clothing their children.That is not okay in America, and we have a responsibility to do something about it.

Tavis: Just got 15 seconds here left, would not think of closing the conversation without asking how Elizabeth Edwards is doing.How's your wife?

Edwards: Oh, well, thank you for asking.She's actually doing very well.

Tavis: His name is John Edwards, of course.He's Democratic candidate for the nomination of his party come 2008.His new book is called "Ending Poverty in America: How to Restore the American Dream."Senator Edwards, nice to have you on the program, we'll see you in D.C.

Edwards: Thanks, Tavis, I look forward to it.

Tavis: Thank you, sir.